This Account is Unplayable Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 [url="http://yugico.com/user/16579-Hounds_of_Anubis/card/399-Random_Cards/33662-Dark_World_Shackles"][img]http://yugico.com/customcard/33662.jpg[/img][/url] Lore: Target 1 card your opponent controls; Return it to the Deck and discard 1 card. While this card is in your Graveyard, during your Main Phase: You can banish 1 Fiend-Type monster from your Graveyard; Set this card on your side of the field. Ok, so since anyone that knows me knows I love Dark Worlds, they'll probably figure out why I made this. The thing I find with Dark Worlds recently is they're moving more away from a control element, and the Turbo variant has indeed become much better. They have also fallen from their Tier 1 throne, essentially, but only just. I believe this is the exact card they need to buff them to the point they can really take on the decks that threaten them most, and it adds to their consistency, especially with being searchable by Snoww. It gives Dark Worlds a solid control over the field, without having to resort to Skill Drain (which of course still works amazing in Dark Worlds) so they can run more of their monster techs, like Raven, Tour Guide and Morphing Jar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durandamon Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 [img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101118002223/yugioh/images/thumb/c/c4/DarkworldShacklesSTBL-EN-C-1E.jpg/300px-DarkworldShacklesSTBL-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img] ^Actual Yugioh card^ I see this card as an excellent DW/Fabled staple since it can discard 1 extra card per turn. It seems good and balanced, better than the REAL Darkworld Shackles. Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 [quote name='{HQ}' timestamp='1331158746' post='5861157'] [img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101118002223/yugioh/images/thumb/c/c4/DarkworldShacklesSTBL-EN-C-1E.jpg/300px-DarkworldShacklesSTBL-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img] ^Actual Yugioh card^ I see this card as an excellent DW/Fabled staple since it can discard 1 extra card per turn. It seems good and balanced, better than the REAL Darkworld Shackles. Good job! [/quote] Note the space, it's very, very important. And you didn't really comment much... at all on the card, so I can't exactly say anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Bumping because I want some intelligent posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Damn, that's borderline crazy. That said, I think it's actually great support for the archetype (I'm a fan of the Turbo Variant myself). Although I do think (and I know you're going to disagree but whatever) you should probably make the discard a cost, or add a cost of some sorts. Otherwise I think it's essentially bounce a monster, SS a monster/pop a card, repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='ɢαlαхy' timestamp='1331252766' post='5862453'] Damn, that's borderline crazy. That said, I think it's actually great support for the archetype (I'm a fan of the Turbo Variant myself). Although I do think (and I know you're going to disagree but whatever) you should probably make the discard a cost, or add a cost of some sorts. Otherwise I think it's essentially bounce a monster, SS a monster/pop a card, repeat. [/quote] Well, making it a cost completely defeats the purpose of the card. Also, this was intended to buff DWs to tier 1 in the current metagame, considering what is currently there I don't see how doing that is particularly broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1331257597' post='5862564'] Well, making it a cost completely defeats the purpose of the card. Also, this was intended to buff DWs to tier 1 in the current metagame, considering what is currently there I don't see how doing that is particularly broken. [/quote] I agree. If you're looking to make a card as broken as the Wind-Up Loop and Hornet, then maybe it's fine as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF Fan Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1331158802' post='5861160'] Note the space, it's very, very important. And you didn't really comment much... at all on the card, so I can't exactly say anything else. [/quote] How in the hell is something as arbitrary as a space important when the world and meaning are exactly the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='FF Fan' timestamp='1331263107' post='5862701'] How in the hell is something as arbitrary as a space important when the world and meaning are exactly the same? [/quote] He's right. Because the space makes it "Dark World Shackles", a "Dark World" support card that can be searched by Snoww, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='{HQ}' timestamp='1331158746' post='5861157'] I see this card as an excellent DW/Fabled staple since it can discard 1 extra card per turn. It seems good and balanced, better than the REAL Darkworld Shackles. Good job! [/quote] This is damn terrible in Fableds, considering Phoenix Wing Wind Blast exists, does the same thing basically, and is still damn terrible in them. You don't want to discard in Fableds except with Monster effects, or a teched Divine Wrath, and even then, only WANT to discard Kushano for it. Anyways, this actually seems really solid, given dicsarding a DW during the opponent's turn can be a lot more beneficial than the aforementioned Fableds, and it's nice and reusable. It's not really broken, but it certainly gives a boost, and it's only a +0. Reminds me of Dark Smog in a sense of usage, but better and shuts down a lot of annoying cards. My only concern is how it can be used as a Spell, basically, on your turn, for the sake of an OTK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1331265100' post='5862713'] This is damn terrible in Fableds, considering Phoenix Wing Wind Blast exists, does the same thing basically, and is still damn terrible in them. You don't want to discard in Fableds except with Monster effects, or a teched Divine Wrath, and even then, only WANT to discard Kushano for it. Anyways, this actually seems really solid, given dicsarding a DW during the opponent's turn can be a lot more beneficial than the aforementioned Fableds, and it's nice and reusable. It's not really broken, but it certainly gives a boost, and it's only a +0. Reminds me of Dark Smog in a sense of usage, but better and shuts down a lot of annoying cards. My only concern is how it can be used as a Spell, basically, on your turn, for the sake of an OTK... [/quote] Would it be more balanced if it was something more like "While this card is in your Graveyard, during your Main Phase: You can banish 1 Fiend-Type monster from your Graveyard; Set this card on your side of the field."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Actually, yeah, that helps, because then Crow and such can hit it, without actually killing the idea of the card, and it take away some of said OTKing potential. Do that and it's perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Consider it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lightray Daedalus- Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm the only aware that this card is a Freaking Generic Removal...of the Ridiculous type? I mean...returning a Card to the Deck per turn is a pretty powerfull effect...and don't forget that everyone and their mother run TGU nowadays... =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='-Lightray Daedalus-' timestamp='1331304239' post='5862948'] I'm the only aware that this card is a Freaking Generic Removal...of the Ridiculous type? I mean...returning a Card to the Deck per turn is a pretty powerfull effect...and don't forget that everyone and their mother run TGU nowadays... =/ [/quote] It's also a -1 outside of anywhere that is not Dark Worlds, albeit it makes up for it the next turn, that requires having a Fiend in grave when you use it to get the full +0. It's not really generic, especially considering "I run Tour Guide" is a stupid excuse to run this 1 card. You have 4 targets for it, 1 of which you don't want banished unless you can quickly go Leviair. So, if you have to use this without TGU in your grave, it's a -1. And, no, not all decks run her, just a good deal. Besides, when she goes to 1, that argument will be completely invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lightray Daedalus- Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 The Discard is not a necesary issue...Maxx "C" is a card that can certantly replenish the lost of a card at any given moment...Sometimes it will serve you to set up stuff you want in the Graveyard as well...and other Decks that run at least a couple Fiends...say Infernities who laughs at this card pseudo cost...and it is a really relevant removal that can deal is a seemingly permanent way with A lot of Stuff played nowadays... And you don't have to have a Fiend in Yard when you use this...it doesn't day it has to be right away...Better yet while it sit in the Graveyard is a "Waiting to come out" thread that may lead people onto spending some Graveyard Hate on it unless they want to have more of its cards returned to the Deck...(the returning effect isn't even once per turn...so D.D.Crow doesn't do a s*** if you have 2 or more Fiends in Graveyard...unless they directly hit this card) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='-Lightray Daedalus-' timestamp='1331307258' post='5862963'] The Discard is not a necesary issue...Maxx "C" is a card that can certantly replenish the lost of a card at any given moment...Sometimes it will serve you to set up stuff you want in the Graveyard as well...and other Decks that run at least a couple Fiends...say Infernities who laughs at this card pseudo cost...and it is a really relevant removal that can deal is a seemingly permanent way with A lot of Stuff played nowadays... And you don't have to have a Fiend in Yard when you use this...it doesn't day it has to be right away...Better yet while it sit in the Graveyard is a "Waiting to come out" thread that may lead people onto spending some Graveyard Hate on it unless they want to have more of its cards returned to the Deck...(the returning effect isn't even once per turn...so D.D.Crow doesn't do a s*** if you have 2 or more Fiends in Graveyard...unless they directly hit this card) [/quote] So... Your points say this breaks Infernities when Infernities need a hell of a lot more than this to be good again, especially without Trish, ok. Then you mention how bad players would try to D.D. Crow the Fiend that was already used for the cost.... Right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I honestly think it'd be significantly less iffy if you just made it so the returned monster goes to the top of the Deck. In that case, you're still accomplishing a similar goal, while you're not hitting as hard as you would be. I'm not sure why, I just feel like it'd be really, really tough to get around in some cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='-Lightray Daedalus-' timestamp='1331307258' post='5862963'] The Discard is not a necesary issue...Maxx "C" is a card that can certantly replenish the lost of a card at any given moment...and other Decks that run at least a couple Fiends...say Infernities who laughs at this card pseudo cost...and it is a really relevant removal that can deal is a seemingly permanent way with A lot of Stuff played nowadays... And you don't have to have a Fiend in Yard when you use this...it doesn't day it has to be right away...Better yet while it sit in the Graveyard is a "Waiting to come out" thread that may lead people onto spending some Graveyard Hate on it unless they want to have more of its cards returned to the Deck...(the returning effect isn't even once per turn...so D.D.Crow doesn't do a s*** if you have 2 or more Fiends in Graveyard...unless they directly hit this card) [/quote] [img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111010023141/yugioh/images/thumb/e/e8/PhoenixWingWindBlastDT04-EN-DNPR-DT.jpg/300px-PhoenixWingWindBlastDT04-EN-DNPR-DT.jpg[/img] If the discard isn't an issue, why does this not see any play? Maxx "C" exists so this card is broken because you're dueling an idiot who doesn't stop spamming when you drop Maxx "C"... How does that makes ANY sense to you? So it can be used- Okay? It sets itself so it can only be used once per banish, so once every 2 turns. The fact that fiend decks exist does not mean this card is broken, and it's funny how your tune changed from "generic" to "Fiend decks". Fiend decks that would run this: Dark Worlds Infernities, maybe, but it does not solve ANY of their problems, IE Maxx "C", Effect Veiler, and D.D. Crow, though it might slow Crow. It's not unbalanced, it's a +0 anywhere outside of Dark Worlds, and it's only "problematic" in Dark Worlds because Snoww and Grapha exist, both of which are bad enough to warrant list attention, so this is perfectly fine as is. And if this is in grave, and there are two fiends in grave, you'd be an idiot not to hit this with Crow, so IDK what you're on about, there.[quote name='ɢαlαхy' timestamp='1331307760' post='5862966'] I honestly think it'd be significantly less iffy if you just made it so the returned monster goes to the top of the Deck. [/quote] That makes it even stronger because dead draws ._. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Dead draws, yeah, but at least if you bounce a monster or something they have the opportunity to get it back. PWWB isn't worth it because the discard is a cost and it has no reset option. This has both, meaning that, especially in Dark Worlds, it's just silly powerful. I'm not saying it's broken, just something feels off. Eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='ɢαlαхy' timestamp='1331308772' post='5862977'] Dead draws, yeah, but at least if you bounce a monster or something they have the opportunity to get it back. PWWB isn't worth it because the discard is a cost and it has no reset option. This has both, meaning that, especially in Dark Worlds, it's just silly powerful. I'm not saying it's broken, just something feels off. Eh. [/quote] ... No, bounce to top of deck is better than TO deck, especially when this also bounces S/T, like PWWB. PWWB being a cost has nothign to do with the worth, because the only thing that gives a damn about Discarding as an effect over a cost is Dark Worlds. Bouncing to top of Deck > To deck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lightray Daedalus- Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1331307642' post='5862964'] So... Your points say this breaks Infernities when Infernities need a hell of a lot more than this to be good again, especially without Trish, ok. Then you mention how bad players would try to D.D. Crow the Fiend that was already used for the cost.... Right... [/quote] [b]No...I just was pointing that a Deck that like to be handless (a la Infernities) doesn't mind for the discard...and they also happen to have fiends...It was just an example so don't get to cocky and No I didn't said bad player will remove the fiends of the cost...I say that this card will push players to try to get ride OF IT...because removing the Fiends does nothing Don't twist my words to your convenience sir...[/b] [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1331307805' post='5862967'] [img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111010023141/yugioh/images/thumb/e/e8/PhoenixWingWindBlastDT04-EN-DNPR-DT.jpg/300px-PhoenixWingWindBlastDT04-EN-DNPR-DT.jpg[/img] If the discard isn't an issue, why does this not see any play? [b]Becuase that discard is a cost...if the card gets negated you lost 2 cards for nothing...this card discards on resolution so...you can activate it while being handles...or...if they negated it...it was just a 1-4-1...so you didn't lose anything either[/b] Maxx "C" exists so this card is broken because you're dueling an idiot who doesn't stop spamming when you drop Maxx "C"... How does that makes ANY sense to you? [b]Then again you are reading between lines, not saying this is broken Becuase Maxx "C" exist. Just mentioning that sometimes...the discard won't be as hurtful since there are way (like the mentioned Maxx "C") that are of common use and that can make up for a sightly lost of advantage...if you can call it that, but that doesn't have to do with the Brokeness or no Brokeness of the card...HELL...I never even mentioned the word Broken till now...so yeah[/b] It sets itself so it can only be used once per banish, so once every 2 turns. The fact that fiend decks exist does not mean this card is broken, and it's funny how your tune changed from "generic" to "Fiend decks". Fiend decks that would run this: Dark Worlds Infernities, maybe, but it does not solve ANY of their problems, IE Maxx "C", Effect Veiler, and D.D. Crow, though it might slow Crow. [b]But it is Generic...the mention of Fiend Deck doesn't change my opinion that this card can be used outside of them...are there quite a lot of Deck where this card is optimally functional? Yes of course...but any deck that can run a sightly small Fiend engine can too...it is all about mind games here. You don't have to necessarily spam this card very turn...when you know that it being in the Graveyard give you easy access to it at any given time you can fetch a Fiend to the Yard.[/b] It's not unbalanced, it's a +0 anywhere outside of Dark Worlds, and it's only "problematic" in Dark Worlds because Snoww and Grapha exist, both of which are bad enough to warrant list attention, so this is perfectly fine as is. [b]Measuring this card by Advantage terms will give you a seemingly balanced card but the IRL gamelife Value is also important...and relevant to determine wether a card is balanced or not...[/b] And if this is in grave, and there are two fiends in grave, you'd be an idiot not to hit this with Crow, so IDK what you're on about, there. [b]Exactly that thing...card forces you to Banish it instead of more relevant stuff[/b] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='-Lightray Daedalus-' timestamp='1331309306' post='5862994'] [b]No...I just was pointing that a Deck that like to be handless (a la Infernities) doesn't mind for the discard...and they also happen to have fiends...It was just an example so don't get to cocky and No I didn't said bad player will remove the fiends of the cost...I say that this card will push players to try to get ride OF IT...because removing the Fiends does nothing Don't twist my words to your convenience sir...[/b] [/quote] Have you read Inzektor Hornet? Have you read Rescue Rabbit? Have you read Wind-Up Hunter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lightray Daedalus- Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1331309583' post='5862996'] Have you read Inzektor Hornet? Have you read Rescue Rabbit? Have you read Wind-Up Hunter? [/quote] No...enlight me...Smart man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='-Lightray Daedalus-' timestamp='1331309674' post='5862999'] No...enlight me...Smart man... [/quote] So you can see that this is made to buff Dark Worlds to tier 1, and you're saying it's poor design because? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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