Time Shift[Piercer Single]

[Piercer of the Heavens]

[IMG]http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu105/monkeylife2/createcardphp.jpg[/IMG]
Lore: Select one spell/trap or monster card zone on the field and pay half your life points. If there is card on the selected zone destroy it. Return any card that was in the selected zone 2 of your turns ago in the position it was originally in. If there was no card on the selected zone at that time nothing is returned.

[Yosuke-kun]

Slight TCG errors, but the overall effect is... Well, iffy, and the pic's nice.

[REvan342]

a very interesting ability. It would require a bit of skill to use. The lifepoint payment seems steep, but its an overall balanced card. 8.7/10

[Piercer of the Heavens]

[quote name='Kio-kun' timestamp='1331447214' post='5865632']
Slight TCG errors, but the overall effect is... Well, iffy, and the pic's nice.
[/quote]
TCG, do you mean OCG. If you do I kind of had a hard time to word it.

[quote name='REvan342' timestamp='1331447607' post='5865640']
a very interesting ability. It would require a bit of skill to use. The lifepoint payment seems steep, but its an overall balanced card. 8.7/10
[/quote]
Thank you. As for the cost I made it half cause you can get some really good cards back. Or if its an emergency get rid of something. Also cause I couldn't think of anything else to make it balanced.

[REvan342]

[quote name='Piercer of the Heavens' timestamp='1331448213' post='5865648']

Thank you. As for the cost I made it half cause you can get some really good cards back. Or if its an emergency get rid of something. Also cause I couldn't think of anything else to make it balanced.
[/quote]

no prob. the listed abilities seem very tricky to word. i advise the use of an english teacher ( thats how most of my card texts are made XD )

[101100111000]

Better grammar: Target 1 Monster Card Zone/Spell & Trap Card Zone on the field and pay half your life points. If there is a card on the targeted zone: banish* it. During your 2nd Standby Phase after this card's activation: Return a card banished by this effect.

I personally think this is what you mean:

Pay half of your Life Points to target 1 card on the field; banish* it. During your 2nd Standby Phase after this card's activation: Return the card banished by this effect to the field.

*Banishing seems more appropriate, imo. You can still use destroy, if you want.

Basically, you made an MST that also affects monsters, and then added a LP cost in front of it. Then, you return it to the field...

Personally, you can just remove the last effect that returns the card. This is a Normal Spell anyway, so it's alot slower than MST, and not as preferable. Besides, there are plenty of cards that destoy cards without costs, so making this a Quick-Play wouldn't really OP it.

[Yosuke-kun]

[quote name='REvan342' timestamp='1331448690' post='5865650']
no prob. the listed abilities seem very tricky to word. i advise the use of an english teacher ( thats how most of my card texts are made XD )
[/quote]

[quote name='Piercer of the Heavens' timestamp='1331448213' post='5865648']
TCG, do you mean OCG. If you do I kind of had a hard time to word it.


Thank you. As for the cost I made it half cause you can get some really good cards back. Or if its an emergency get rid of something. Also cause I couldn't think of anything else to make it balanced.
[/quote]

Just spelling errors. Wording is fine, but Spell/Trap and Monster Card Zone needs to be capitalized. English teachers are in no way needed.

[Piercer of the Heavens]

[quote name='Emotion & Commotion' timestamp='1331449036' post='5865653']
Better grammar: Target 1 Monster Card Zone/Spell & Trap Card Zone on the field and pay half your life points. If there is a card on the targeted zone: banish* it. During your 2nd Standby Phase after this card's activation: Return a card banished by this effect.

I personally think this is what you mean:

Pay half of your Life Points to target 1 card on the field; banish* it. During your 2nd Standby Phase after this card's activation: Return the card banished by this effect to the field.

*Banishing seems more appropriate, imo. You can still use destroy, if you want.

Basically, you made an MST that also affects monsters, and then added a LP cost in front of it. Then, you return it to the field...

Personally, you can just remove the last effect that returns the card. This is a Normal Spell anyway, so it's alot slower than MST, and not as preferable. Besides, there are plenty of cards that destoy cards without costs, so making this a Quick-Play wouldn't really OP it.
[/quote]
Not what I meant. What I meant was choose a zone, one either monster or spell/trap. If theres a card there destroy it. The n whatever card wad there(if thete was one) two turns ago, as in before activating this card is returnef in the position it wad in.

[Sander]

[quote name='Piercer of the Heavens' timestamp='1331497461' post='5866341']
Not what I meant. What I meant was choose a zone, one either monster or spell/trap. If theres a card there destroy it. The n whatever card wad there(if thete was one) two turns ago, as in before activating this card is returnef in the position it wad in.
[/quote]

You're not understanding anything, are you? Emotion & Commotion's version of the card is the same as your version, except the banishing instead of destroying. Other than that, as I said, his version is the same.

[101100111000]

[quote name='Piercer of the Heavens' timestamp='1331497461' post='5866341']
Not what I meant. What I meant was choose a zone, one either monster or spell/trap. If theres a card there destroy it. The n whatever card wad there(if thete was one) two turns ago, as in before activating this card is returnef in the position it wad in.
[/quote]

...so destroy a card, then return it two turns later? Please tell me that's what you mean. There's absolutely nothing else you could possibly be talking about. Targetting a Zone that has no card is pointless :I

[Piercer of the Heavens]

[quote name='Emotion & Commotion' timestamp='1331498330' post='5866373']
...so destroy a card, then return it two turns later? Please tell me that's what you mean. There's absolutely nothing else you could possibly be talking about. Targetting a Zone that has no card is pointless :I
[/quote]
I guess I'm not making myself clear, I apologize for that. Let me give you an example, maybe that will clear things up.
1st turn(you) Set Dimensional Prison
1st turn(opponent) Summons monster and attacks. You activate trap.
2nd turn(you):whatever
2nd turn(opponent): whatever
3rd turn(you): Activate Time Shift. You target the zone your Dimensional Prison was on. Since Dimensional Prison was there 2 of your turns ago it is brought back face down(original position).

The destruction of a card is just to clear up the zone. The intended thing was to bring back a card that was previously on that zone. If you want you can use it as a card to destroy another card.

[101100111000]

[quote name='Piercer of the Heavens' timestamp='1331499140' post='5866397']

I guess I'm not making myself clear, I apologize for that. Let me give you an example, maybe that will clear things up.
1st turn(you) Set Dimensional Prison
1st turn(opponent) Summons monster and attacks. You activate trap.
2nd turn(you):whatever
2nd turn(opponent): whatever
3rd turn(you): Activate Time Shift. You target the zone your Dimensional Prison was on. Since Dimensional Prison was there 2 of your turns ago it is brought back face down(original position).

The destruction of a card is just to clear up the zone. The intended thing was to bring back a card that was previously on that zone. If you want you can use it as a card to destroy another card.
[/quote]

...everyone would use it to destroy a card, which is why my effect is much shorter, to the point, and still does te exact same thing -.-

[REvan342]

[quote name='Emotion & Commotion' timestamp='1331499580' post='5866414']
...everyone would use it to destroy a card, which is why my effect is much shorter, to the point, and still does te exact same thing -.-
[/quote]

He has a point.... no matter how "clear" you try to make it, they are the same card with differant names. sorry bud, this logic is solid.

[Piercer of the Heavens]

[quote name='Emotion & Commotion' timestamp='1331499580' post='5866414']
...everyone would use it to destroy a card, which is why my effect is much shorter, to the point,

[u][size=4][b]True, but this isn't your card, it's mine. I was trying to make the card effect unique.[/b][/size][/u]

and still does te exact same thing -.-

[u][b]Your effect returns the banished card. My effect destroys a card(if there is one) and at that moment returns a card that was previously there. The destroyed card is destroyed and doesn't come back.[/b][/u]
[/quote]

[101100111000]

[quote name='REvan342' timestamp='1331499845' post='5866428']
He has a point.... no matter how "clear" you try to make it, they are the same card with differant names. sorry bud, this logic is solid.
[/quote]

...clarity is important. Clarity is what makes sure you don't have to ask someone else to understand the effect. Clarity is essential to Yugioh.

Besides that, the cost on this card pointless, because, unlike the Solemns, you're returning the card you destroyed/banished by this effect. I'd either change the cost to some much more reasonable, or eliminate it entirely.

[Piercer of the Heavens]

[quote name='Emotion & Commotion' timestamp='1331500092' post='5866437']
...clarity is important. Clarity is what makes sure you don't have to ask someone else to understand the effect. Clarity is essential to Yugioh.
[/quote]
I've never seen a card with that specific effect so I have no foundation. I did state to someone earlier that the wording was hard to come up with.

[quote name='Emotion & Commotion' timestamp='1331500092' post='5866437']
Besides that, the cost on this card pointless, because, unlike the Solemns, [b]you're returning the card you destroyed/banished by this effect.[/b] I'd either change the cost to some much more reasonable, or eliminate it entirely.
[/quote]
I keep saying you don't return the card that was destroyed by this effect. That is your effect, not mine. What you return is a card that was previously the selected zone. Of course if previously there was no card on the selected zone then nothing is returned and all you did was waste half your life points to destroy a card.

[101100111000]

[quote name='Piercer of the Heavens' timestamp='1331446683' post='5865624']
[IMG]http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu105/monkeylife2/createcardphp.jpg[/IMG]
Lore: Select one spell/trap or monster card zone on the field and pay half your life points. If there is card on the selected zone destroy it. [b]Return any card that was in the selected zone 2 of your turns ago in the position it was originally in.[/b] If there was no card on the selected zone at that time nothing is returned.
[/quote]

[s]Your logic fails to support you.[/s]

And there's a difference between a "Unique effect" and a paraphrased effect. My version of your effect does the exact same thing and is much more understandable, especially for newcomers.

I still say you change the cost or remove it.

Edit: NOW I understand what the bolded is trying to explain. Unfortunately something like that can be difficult to keep track of, ending up only useable in video games.

[Piercer of the Heavens]

Lore: Select one spell/trap or monster card zone on the field and pay half your life points. If there is card on the selected zone destroy it. [b]Return any card that was in the selected zone 2 of your turns ago in the position it was originally in[/b]. If there was no card on the selected zone at that time nothing is returned.

What is failing me is not logic, it seems to be my explanation skills. Like I stated the wording was hard to come up with. What that means is that any card that was there two turns ago, before even activating this card, is returned. Maybe another example. If it doesn't work, we'll just leave it as both of us misunderstanding each other.

1st turn opponent: Summons Gene Warped Warwolf(face-up attack)
1st turn you: set monster
2nd turn opponent: Tributes to summon Caius the Shadow Monarch, gets rid of your monster
2nd turn you: whatever
3nd turn opponent: whatever
3rd turn you: Activate Time Shift. Target zone in which Caius the Shadow Monarch is. He is destroyed. Since Gene Warped
Warwolf was there two of your turns ago, it is Summoned at that moment in attack position.

[Sander]

[quote name='Piercer of the Heavens' timestamp='1331501385' post='5866463']
Lore: Select one spell/trap or monster card zone on the field and pay half your life points. If there is card on the selected zone destroy it. [b]Return any card that was in the selected zone 2 of your turns ago in the position it was originally in[/b]. If there was no card on the selected zone at that time nothing is returned.

What is failing me is not logic, it seems to be my explanation skills. Like I stated the wording was hard to come up with. What that means is that any card that was there two turns ago, before even activating this card, is returned. Maybe another example. If it doesn't work, we'll just leave it as both of us misunderstanding each other.

1st turn opponent: Summons Gene Warped Warwolf(face-up attack)
1st turn you: set monster
2nd turn opponent: Tributes to summon Caius the Shadow Monarch, gets rid of your monster
2nd turn you: whatever
3nd turn opponent: whatever
3rd turn you: Activate Time Shift. Target zone in which Caius the Shadow Monarch is. He is destroyed. Since Gene Warped
Warwolf was there two of your turns ago, it is Summoned at that moment in attack position.
[/quote]

You're failing even at explaining and understanding how your own card even works. What I've understand so far is that you target either a Monster Card Zone or a Spell / Trap Card Zone and if there happens to be a card on it, it's destroyed. Then you target a card from either players graveyard and return the target to the targeted zone if it was in the zone 2 turns ago.

If that's correct, this example is incorrect, as you can't target your own monster from your Graveyard if you targeted your opponents monster card zone that happened to have Caius on it. You'd have to target your own monster card zone if you wanted to get back a monster that was on it 2 turns ago.

Is it not it funny how I can understand your card better than you can, is it?

[Piercer of the Heavens]

[quote name='Zanda Panda' timestamp='1331502162' post='5866486']
You're failing even at explaining and understanding how your own card even works. What I've understand so far is that you target either a Monster Card Zone or a Spell / Trap Card Zone and if there happens to be a card on it, it's destroyed. Then you target a card from either players graveyard and return the target to the targeted zone if it was in the zone 2 turns ago.

[b]Correct[/b]

If that's correct, this example is incorrect, as you can't target your own monster from your Graveyard if you targeted your opponents monster card zone that happened to have Caius on it. You'd have to target your own monster card zone if you wanted to get back a monster that was on it 2 turns ago.

[b]What? In the example you never target your card. You target the zone that has Caius(opponents monster). It is destroyed. Since Gene Warped Warwolf (opponents monster) was in that zone two turns ago it is summoned/returned to that zone in the position it was in. In the example you never targeted you monster.[/b]

Is it not it funny how I can understand your card better than you can, is it?

[b]You understand it how i want you to. You just seem to read the example wrong[/b].
[/quote]

[Yosuke-kun]

Wording on the example was a bit off I think. I got the same conclusion o.o

Either way, it feels like this cards effect changed 12 times over the course of the argument. They way I understand it is that you blow up whatever is in a targeted zone, either yours or your opponents. Then you revive/replay whatever was there two turns prior.

This card either takes a lot of strategy or very little strategy depending on the situation. For example, if you draw this and Sset a Sakuretsu and have Wild Tornado in your hand, late in the game that's one. Hopefully everyone sees what I'm getting at. But on the other hand, it'd take more strategy if it were drawn earlier in it could be much harder to play.

Somebody correct me if I misunderstood something.

[REvan342]

[quote name='Kio-kun' timestamp='1331533663' post='5867300']
Wording on the example was a bit off I think. I got the same conclusion o.o

Either way, it feels like this cards effect changed 12 times over the course of the argument. They way I understand it is that you blow up whatever is in a targeted zone, either yours or your opponents. Then you revive/replay whatever was there two turns prior.

This card either takes a lot of strategy or very little strategy depending on the situation. For example, if you draw this and Sset a Sakuretsu and have Wild Tornado in your hand, late in the game that's one. Hopefully everyone sees what I'm getting at. But on the other hand, it'd take more strategy if it were drawn earlier in it could be much harder to play.

Somebody correct me if I misunderstood something.
[/quote]

yes it seems to be harder to play the more the duel drags on... personally i dont see many niches for this card to satisfy...

[Yosuke-kun]

Ok, someone who knows what I said reply because he said yes then the opposite.

[REvan342]

[quote name='Kio-kun' timestamp='1331562621' post='5867501']
Ok, someone who knows what I said reply because he said yes then the opposite.
[/quote]
all i said is that it isnt very useful.... unless your deck is built for speed. dosent fit much anywhere else.

[Sander]

[quote name='Piercer of the Heavens' timestamp='1331501385' post='5866463']
Lore: Select one spell/trap or monster card zone on the field and pay half your life points. If there is card on the selected zone destroy it. [b]Return any card that was in the selected zone 2 of your turns ago in the position it was originally in[/b]. If there was no card on the selected zone at that time nothing is returned.

What is failing me is not logic, it seems to be my explanation skills. Like I stated the wording was hard to come up with. What that means is that any card that was there two turns ago, before even activating this card, is returned. Maybe another example. If it doesn't work, we'll just leave it as both of us misunderstanding each other.

1st turn opponent: Summons Gene Warped Warwolf(face-up attack)
1st turn you: set monster
2nd turn opponent: Tributes to summon Caius the Shadow Monarch, gets rid of your monster
2nd turn you: whatever
3nd turn opponent: whatever
3rd turn you: Activate Time Shift. Target zone in which Caius the Shadow Monarch is. He is destroyed. Since Gene Warped
Warwolf was there two of your turns ago, it is Summoned at that moment in attack position.
[/quote]

Okay, yeah, read the example a little bit wrong there. But now comes a different matter into play. Why would you even use this card and pay half your Life Points to kill a single monster, then let your opponent get back a monster that was on that zone? Just not useful.