thekazu4u Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Because I hate Wind-Ups and Dino-Rabbits. [img]http://yugico.com/customcard/39385.jpg[/img] [left]You can discard this card from your hand during a turn in which one player has Summoned 4 or more monsters. Banish all monsters that player controls, and no monsters can be Special Summoned until your opponent's next End Phase. [/left] [left][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]This card was specifically designed to punish those two decks. Because no, Maxx "C" is not enough. Maxx "C" (against good opponents anyways) will simply stop them from Special Summoning any more, not punish them for doing it in the first place. Thus, the Ancients.[/size][/font][/color][/left] [left][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]The ancients are not exactly an "archtype," but more a suite of cards designed to encourage one type of play, or in this case, discourage another. The type of play that I am attempting to discourage is the strategy of generating a huge amount of advantage on the first turn, by employing tactics such as the Wind-Up loop or the Rescue-Rabbit first turn Laggia. This card will stop both, and not with a "no more special summoning" decree or a "I get a +1 but you still get your Laggia" but with a "your Laggia is GONE. Your hunter and Maity are GONE."[/size][/font][/color][/left] [left][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]Your thoughts?[/size][/font][/color][/left] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Bekker Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 way to op´d. you drop that = you won. you normal summon it = you almost won. even if it would have 1 of these effects it still would be op'd. make it like: summoned 3 monster, banish them until the end phase(!) and cut that gains 500atk. then it would be still a broken card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 [quote name='Dennis Bekker' timestamp='1332702582' post='5888147'] way to op´d. you drop that = you won. you normal summon it = you almost won. even if it would have 1 of these effects it still would be op'd. make it like: summoned 3 monster, banish them until the end phase(!) and cut that gains 500atk. then it would be still a broken card. [/quote] How many decks that are balanced consistently summon 4 or more monsters in one turn? There are only the aforementioned decks, and maybe Six Samurai and Infernities. And for the decks that are imbalanced, they need an OP'd card to counter their own OP'dness. The only one of those that I would actually be sad about hitting is infernities. The Normal Summon effect was overkill though. I don't want to be punishing decks that don't need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Not bad design, per se, but way too much. First off, it completely outclasses Fossil Dyna, with the exception of locking down SS permanently. In exchange it's a quick move to stall them then explode next turn. Lots of ecks can summon multiple monsters in a turn for this to hit it as a hand trap. Sabers, Fableds, Lavals, Gishki, Gem-Knights, hell even Gustos and Harpies can, as well as many more cards. A card like this would slow the game to a point comparable to MTG, which is bad because many players prefer Yugioh to MTG BECAUSE it's not a slow game. Problem is, it loses the point you were going for if you change it to higher than 4. Maybe if they summon X monsters from the deck in a turn? That way it doesn't punish smaller decks and only punishes the decks you were after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 I would do from extra deck or deck, only problem is then they could do a shark move first turn and get around it if they discarded it first. But maybe I just have to put up with that. New text would be: [left][quote] You can discard this card from your hand during a turn in which one player has Special Summoned 3 or more monsters from the Deck or Extra Deck. Banish all monsters that player controls, and no monsters can be Special Summoned until your opponent's next End Phase. [/quote][/left] [quote] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Lots of ecks can summon multiple monsters in a turn for this to hit it as a hand trap. Sabers, Fableds, Lavals, Gishki, Gem-Knights, hell even Gustos and Harpies can, as well as many more cards. A card like this would slow the game to a point comparable to MTG, which is bad because many players prefer Yugioh to MTG BECAUSE it's not a slow game [/quote][/size][/font][/color] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]In MTG summoning just a few creatures a turn is uber rare. And MTG is not even really that slow, just a bit slower than Yugioh. The speed of yugioh has if anything caused the game to turn into a huge coin toss deciding who goes first. This would prevent that. Plus, the game would still be faster than MTG by a LOT. The only people that would not enjoy it are those that simply enjoy the luck of the game, and I really don't know what to say to those people. [/size][/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332705179' post='5888220'] I would do from extra deck or deck, only problem is then they could do a shark move first turn and get around it if they discarded it first. But maybe I just have to put up with that. New text would be: [left]You can discard this card from your hand during a turn in which one player has Special Summoned 3 or more monsters from the Deck or Extra Deck. Banish all monsters that player controls, and no monsters can be Special Summoned until your opponent's next End Phase.[/left] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]In MTG summoning just a few creatures a turn is uber rare. And MTG is not even really that slow, just a bit slower than Yugioh. The speed of yugioh has if anything caused the game to turn into a huge coin toss deciding who goes first. This would prevent that. Plus, the game would still be faster than MTG by a LOT. The only people that would not enjoy it are those that simply enjoy the luck of the game, and I really don't know what to say to those people. [/size][/font][/color] [/quote] That seems better, to be sure. This slows the game down way too much. It makes the whole game one big control contest for fear of losing all your resources. Swarm just gets slaughtered completely by the original. The whole idea of the card wrecks anything except conservative play that makes the duel last 20 turns, or a lucky Card Destruction/Mind Crush to kill this thing before your big blitz. But then Gorz exists to be feared as well. The speed of Yugioh as opposed to the other Metagames is an attraction. This would kill said speed by making anything except control scared for its life and make them not wanna even ATTEMPT to push unless they were 100% sure you didn't have this. But, it's getting changed, so this is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 [quote] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]It makes the whole game one big control contest for fear of losing all your resources. [/quote][/size][/font][/color] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]You see, IMO, this is what it should be more or less. Some decks should control the deck. Some decks should control the field. Some decks should control what can be activated. Some decks should control the graveyard. Personally I consider Aggro decks just another spin on control decks - instead of "controlling" by effect they "control" by having high ATK/DEF. The only decktype that is not control is something like a combo deck, and even many of those focus their combos around control (see wind-up). Combos are always going to be luck-based compared to other decktypes. Thus, there should not be as many of them as other decks, and the combo decks there are should be more or less balanced in that there is strategy for GETTING the combo, and the combo cannot be pulled off too fast. The strategy of a combo deck is being able to stall up until the combo is ready, and being able to get as much from the combo as possible. Combo decks like wind-up don't have to stall at all, and getting the most from the combo does not work because you are just working from first hand. This is why it needs to die.[/size][/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332706468' post='5888281'] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]You see, IMO, this is what it should be more or less. Some decks should control the deck. Some decks should control the field. Some decks should control what can be activated. Some decks should control the graveyard. Personally I consider Aggro decks just another spin on control decks - instead of "controlling" by effect they "control" by having high ATK/DEF. The only decktype that is not control is something like a combo deck, and even many of those focus their combos around control (see wind-up). Combos are always going to be luck-based compared to other decktypes. Thus, there should not be as many of them as other decks, and the combo decks there are should be more or less balanced in that there is strategy for GETTING the combo, and the combo cannot be pulled off too fast. The strategy of a combo deck is being able to stall up until the combo is ready, and being able to get as much from the combo as possible. Combo decks like wind-up don't have to stall at all, and getting the most from the combo does not work because you are just working from first hand. This is why it needs to die.[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] I miss negs a lot. Stop posting in this section if that's how you feel, because then you're trying to turn Yugioh into MTG, and if you're going to try to shove the game into your own little corner, because people ENJOY SPEED. Stall is not good for the game, it promotes things like Exodia and Countdown which is terrible.. Oh, and stop trying to create discussion topics. BTW, you keep referencing Wind-ups, but, funny thing- Wind-ups are by far the lowest Tier 1 deck. Inzektors and Rabbit are both far superior. Now get back to the card itself, and don't reply to this post here, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 I have updated the card. Now my only question is if 1500/0 is really the best stats to give it. Maybe go more for something like 1000/1000? And I was just trying to explain my reasoning for creating the card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Bekker Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332708670' post='5888336'] I have updated the card. Now my only question is if 1500/0 is really the best stats to give it. Maybe go more for something like 1000/1000? And I was just trying to explain my reasoning for creating the card. [/quote] the effect is good now. i dont think that the atk are so important, because you want to have it in the hand anyways and 1500 or 1000 are no big difference. i would do something like 800/600 and lv2. anyways good card. keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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