This Account is Unplayable Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Since I cbf re-typing this within the current banlist, I'll just assume you all know the March 12 list, which I believe should have the following changes: Banned: Archlord Kristya BLS-EotB Blackwing Kalut the Moon Shadow Dark Armed Dragon Elemental HERO Stratos Exodia the Forbidden One Gorz the Emissary of Darkness Honest Inzektor Hornet Morphing Jar Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon Wind-Up Hunter Gladiator Beast Gyzarus Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier T.G. Hyper Librarian Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger Card Destruction Chain Strike Final Countdown Future Fusion Gateway of the Six Infernity Launcher Limiter Removal Machine Duplication Mind Control Monster Reborn Pot of Avarice Royal Tribute Magical Explosion Ojama Trio Self-Destruct Button Limited: Judgment Dragon Rescue Rabbit Snoww, Unlight of Dark World Tour Guide from the Underworld Wind-Up Zenmaity Rekindling Secret Barrel Semi-Limited: The Agent of Mystery - Earth Skill Drain Unlimited: Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind Card Trooper Gladiator Beast Bestiari Spore T.G. Striker Book of Moon Destiny Draw Scapegoat [spoiler=Old list explanations, which for a large part are still relevant] [b]Forbidden[/b]: [b]Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning[/b]: I don't see a reason to explain this in much detail. Simply put it's a ridiculously splashable 3k beater, with 2 ridiculously powerful effects with one of the easiest summoning conditions ever printed on a yugioh card. It seems to go too overlooked these days, but it's insane and beyond broken. [b]Exodia the Forbidden One and Final Countdown[/b]: Both of these are skill-less alternate win conditions that discourage player interaction. These are both absolutely terrible things for the game and to discourage them entirely both deserve to be banned. [b]Gorz the Emissary of Darkness[/b]: Creates an absolutely horrible mind-game that is in constant effect until it's either been player or discarded/milled. Rewards a player for being bad and can win games that shouldn't have been won. [b]Inzektor Hornet[/b]: Undeniably the broken part of Inzektors is their ability to destroy the opponent's entire board. Removing any other part of the "Inzektor Trio" (Dragonfly, Centipede and Hornet) would destroy the entire deck, and as a beatdown-floater type of deck it's actually very good and much less mindless. [b]Morphing Jar[/b]: Its only use right now is Empty Jar, which discourages player interaction and promotes OTKs. It's also the sole reason Book of Moon could even remain limited. [b]Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon[/b]: Makes too many decks too good. Without it Chaos Dragons become much, much less threatening and game breaking, and it also stops Hieratics OTKing (Same goes for OCG Hieratics but this list only cares about the TCG) [b]Wind-Up Hunter[/b]: Only way Wind-Ups can strip a player of their entire hand. It serves no purpose outside of that. [b]Gladiator Beast Gyzarus[/b]: Combined with Bestiari destroys 3 cards in 1 turn, for the price of... absolutely nothing. Kind of a no-brainer really and kinda sad I missed it on the first run-through. [b]Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier[/b]: Restricts card design, and allows for loops and skill-less field clearances. It's generally only used to OTK. [b]Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger[/b]: Essentially removes any restriction of any Rank 5/6 Xyz. This in itself should be reason enough to ban it, what makes it worse is the 2600 body. [b]Card Destruction[/b]: Sole purpose is to OTK/Psuedo-OTK with Dark Worlds. [b]Future Fusion[/b]: It's an exploitable win-condition which imposes restriction of Fusion design. Even with Brio banned this doesn't deserve to exist. [b]Gateway of the Six[/b]: OTK-exclusive card that's ridiculously overpowered regardless. Just activating it can be essentially a +4. [b]Machine Duplication[/b]: Serves no competitive purpose. Only used to OTK. Restricts Card Trooper from going any higher than 2. [b]Mind Control[/b]: Stuff I cbf to type right now. [b]Pot of Avarice[/b]: Pot of Greed on steroids. idk why it's been allowed to stay in the game for so long. [b]Self-Destruct Button[/b]: Takes away a win a player should have had, abuses the tournament system, removes all player interaction. [b]Limited[/b]: [b]Archlord Kristya[/b]: Same reason Royal Oppression will always remain banned, limited because it's not insane and requires a specific deck, but being able to consistently drop this is just dumb, especially since it can loop itself. [b]Judgment Dragon[/b]: Weird one, I know. As I stated, I wanted to create a more skill-intense format... Do I actually have to say anything past that? [b]Rescue Rabbit[/b]: With one Tour Guide and one Rabbit decks can't focus solely around it and its abusive "I normal Summon Solemn Judgment!" [b]Snoww, Unlight of Dark World[/b]: Take out Dark World's only method to consistency and they don't dominate the metagame, while remaining viable because they still have 3 Grapha. [b]Tour Guide from the Underworld[/b]: @1 it would only see use in decks that would only be tutoring their Fiends or that run a heavy amount of Level 3 Fiends. [b]Miracle Fusion[/b]: Free 3200 floaters are bad for the game, imo. I see no reason to keep this at higher than 1, it's absolutely insane, especially in a format where Heroes could already be very potent. [b]Semi-Limited[/b]: [b]T.G. Striker[/b]: 2 seems like the optimal number for the CyDra floating Tuner. Could go to 3 though, honestly. [b]The Agent of Mystery - Earth[/b]: 2 Makes Agents viable and a bit more consistent, 3 would be too much though. 1 was obviously too little. 2 seems like the perfect number. [b]Skill Drain[/b]: Its name kinda says it all. It's a way of alleviating the skill of the game although moreso in the deck building stage. One can just throw 3 in a deck and call it anti-meta, which is terrible for player development and for the game itself. [b]Newly unlimited[/b]: [b]Card Trooper[/b]: Without Machine Dupe it's no way near as abusable and it's an amazing card otherwise, it deserves to be @3 though since it really doesn't have an absurdly strong effect. [b]Spore[/b]: Only works in decks with copious amounts of Plants, since 1 Lonefire and 1 Dandy isn't enough. [b]Gladiator Beast Bestiari[/b]: With Gyzarus gone there is no reason for this to be on the list. [b]Exodia limbs[/b]: Exodia is banned, these may as well be unlimited. [b]Tsukuyomi[/b]: Doesn't serve even remotely the same purpose it used to. The Mask of Darkness combo is very poor and inconsistent. [b]Book of Moon[/b]: It's a great card for the game and should never have hit the list in the first place. Misc/Extras added: [b]Banning Ojama Trio and Chain Strike, limiting Secret Barrel[/b]: Killing chain burn since it has no player interaction. [b]Banning Stratos[/b]: It's a +1 card that searches way too much, and turns cards like E-Call and RotA from balanced (in the latter's case, balanced while @1) card into a free +1. [b]Banning Magical Explosion and Chain Material[/b]: They serve no purpose outside of OTKs. [b]Banning Hyper Librarian[/b]: Synchros should be a -1 to summon, that was the design to balance the mechanic, along with the fact that Librarian can be abused much more than almost any other synchro in existence. [b]Plaguespreader unlimited[/b]: Possibly temporary, doesn't seem to have a remotely huge impact on the game with Mezuki still @1. [b]D-Draw to 3[/b]: Mali's still @2. There's no reason not to unlimit this. [b]Scaepagoat to 3[/b]: With the synchros it allows access too most frequently which are OP'd gone, it seems fair to bring to 3. May be temporary. [b]Banning Honest[/b]: Creates a terrible mind game, similar to that of Gorz, is recyclable, is LIGHT and fuels OTKs. No thanks. [b]Banning Kalut and unlimiting Black Whirlwind[/b]: Possibly temporary, Whirlwind gives Blackwings some consistency but is easily stopped, Kalut is just Honestly (if you'll pardon the pun) terrible design.[/spoiler] Will edit in/out changes as necessary when I actually feel like it. Still may make changes to it though. Discuss what you will, along with other possible changes. I'd much prefer this not be locked, I want to encourage as much intelligent discussion in TCG as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Why no Hyperion? Its not on JD's level of brokeness and requires a dedicated deck...but its still a free 2700 beater that can blow stuff up for free. Also....thank you for understanding Card Destruction needs the ban hammer. I'm tired of idiots saying "its find cuz it only works in DW durr" Any card thats an auto win a deck needs to go. I'll be sad to see Miracle Fusion go...but you're right about free 3200 floaters and free walking Raigekis being bad for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Skill drain's semi seems a bit like a slap on the wrist. Why not unlimit lumina since JD is @1 and BLS is @ 0,would help the twilight versions a bit. Also,why not mind control and monster reborn to 0,they're sacky and unskilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingdom Xathers Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1341694868' post='5969709'] Why no Hyperion? Its not on JD's level of brokeness and requires a dedicated deck...but its still a free 2700 beater that can blow stuff up for free. [/quote] Hyperion only gets to pop one card once per turn, especially since no-one run Sanctuary in a good Deck, it requires you to banish Graveyard resources as opposed to lolLife Points... anything else I'm missing? OT: Anyways, the list seems solid enough, even though I feel that Grapha should still be cut down from Unlimited. Future Fusion... okay, I suppose I can understand; even with REDMD cut down into Forbidden, it would still give Decks that use Fusion Monster requiring 5+ materials the ability to thin their Decks greatly. Miracle Fusion... hmm... with this logic, I suppose it's a decent reason, since HEROs still have Fusion Gate. Also, why no Dandy? It's still a menace even @1, and isn't it the reason for Debris' place on the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I have to say, I don't agree in every point here, but this is probably the best pseudo-banlist I've seen over here. Banning Hunter, Hornet, BLS and REDMD are the exact same fixes I had in mind in order to disrupt the current meta. Gorz, Jar, Brio, Gateway, FuFu, Card Destruction..., I can live with that. But hitting Self-Destruct-Button and Machine Duplication is just plain silly. Kristya, Rabbit, TGU, Bestiari..., also good, but Miracle at 1 could be really harsh for Heros. I get the "player interaction" stuff, but I don't think that alt. win conditions need that much hate, honestly they won't achieve anything serious ever. Overall good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord200 Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 You have Brio as banned and limited. REDRUM, Gateway, and Brio I agree with. Hunter I WOULD agree with, but Wind Ups aren't topping. Doubt they will ban BLS or Gorz. Do not want limited Grapha and Snoww. Gale and Earth at 2 I would be fine with. Overall, do not want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1341694868' post='5969709'] Why no Hyperion? Its not on JD's level of brokeness and requires a dedicated deck...but its still a free 2700 beater that can blow stuff up for free. [/quote] Only hits 1 card, requires a lot of graveyard attention and often manipulation, basic stuff really. Dunno, it might be too good, and at some point I do intend to practically test this list if enough people agree with me on it. [quote name='mido9' timestamp='1341695490' post='5969718'] Skill drain's semi seems a bit like a slap on the wrist. Why not unlimit lumina since JD is @1 and BLS is @ 0,would help the twilight versions a bit. Also,why not mind control and monster reborn to 0,they're sacky and unskilled. [/quote] But as stated, triple Drain and call it anti-meta is just a mindless thing to do and doesn't promote skill at all. It's a fair point, but idk how much 3 Lumina can be abused. I was iffy on banning both, but both could serve good reasoning to be banned, I just never had a compelling argument for Mind Con. [quote name='Wildflame' timestamp='1341696494' post='5969727'] I have to say, I don't agree in every point here, but this is probably the best pseudo-banlist I've seen over here. Banning Hunter, Hornet, BLS and REDMD are the exact same fixes I had in mind in order to disrupt the current meta. Gorz, Jar, Brio, Gateway, FuFu, Card Destruction..., I can live with that. But hitting Self-Destruct-Button and Machine Duplication is just plain silly. Kristya, Rabbit, TGU, Bestiari..., also good, but Miracle at 1 could be really harsh for Heros. I get the "player interaction" stuff, but I don't think that alt. win conditions need that much hate, honestly they won't achieve anything serious ever. Overall good. [/quote] @Self-Destruct Button: What's wrong with my reasoning then? @Machine Dupe: It's not used outside of OTKs and kept Card Trooper on the list, how is it silly? @Miracle: Not harsh when they'd likely become the absolute best deck with a hugely abusable 3200 floater.[quote name='Jord200' timestamp='1341696894' post='5969736'] You have Brio as banned and limited. REDRUM, Gateway, and Brio I agree with. Hunter I WOULD agree with, but Wind Ups aren't topping. Doubt they will ban BLS or Gorz. Do not want limited Grapha and Snoww. Gale and Earth at 2 I would be fine with. Overall, do not want. [/quote] Will fix. Wind-Ups just won US Nats. ._. Again this is moreso my ideal list rather than a real prediction. So lemme get this straight, you agree with most of it... but wouldn't like it to occur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord200 Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Wasn't aware Wind Ups won US Nationals. I wouldn't want it because I use a Dark World deck. With Gorz. And Card Desrtuction and BLS sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I run DWs too... what's your point? I'd still much rather this list. The DW deck would just need to take a slower, more control-oriented path, which personally I'd be fine with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSektor Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I agree with most of these except [s]Frog the Jam [/s]Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger. IMO limiting it would be already enough so people couldn't abuse it. Also, some people made some lists with Tour guide being Semi-Limited. As much as I hate Tour Guide, putting it @2 would be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Raptor Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Limiting it would effectively do nothing but stop 2 Atums from turning into 2 Dragoons. You'd only ultimately run one of the damn thing after you Volcasaurus something and then swing for game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSektor Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 [quote name='Johnny Raptor' timestamp='1341697968' post='5969757'] Limiting it would effectively do nothing but stop 2 Atums from turning into 2 Dragoons. You'd only ultimately run one of the damn thing after you Volcasaurus something and then swing for game. [/quote] I see. Konami really messed up when they made it anyway. They should have put a "You cannot Xyz Summon other monsters this turn" clause on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 idec about Volca since this is aimed at the TCG. It's a 0 or 3 card, basically. It alleviates restrictions placed to balance cards, and is honestly broken because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 [quote name='Johnny Raptor' timestamp='1341697968' post='5969757'] Limiting it would effectively do nothing but stop 2 Atums from turning into 2 Dragoons. You'd only ultimately run one of the damn thing after you Volcasaurus something and then swing for game. [/quote] Pretty much this. People really underrate the broken that is Gaia Dragon. List looks perfect to me, except some preemptive hits on Ptolemys/Gishkis would be nice, but considering it's at least somewhat prediction, I can see why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazooie Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I actually really love this list. Agents are still playable, but not insane, so I'm perfectly fine with it. Every major thing that NEEDED to be hit was, and for the most part, it seems like a balanced format. I would love to test it on DN actually. Like Black said, I WOULD like to have seen a hit on Ptolemys/Gishki, but I don't think it would make a big enough impact to warrant hitting. Maybe some testing is needed for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I agree with most of it, but Mind Control should be @0. With each new mechanic and all the new cards, including, but not limited to Chaos Xyz's, it just becomes more and more splashable and powerful. Also, Machine Duplication could probably stay at 1-2; I get the point of stopping OTK's, but it allows Karakuri some consistency and that's a Deck that can utilize it well without necessarily being an "OTK" engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 [quote name='Neo Galaxy' timestamp='1341699150' post='5969795'] I agree with most of it, but Mind Control should be @0. With each new mechanic and all the new cards, including, but not limited to Chaos Xyz's, it just becomes more and more splashable and powerful. Also, Machine Duplication could probably stay at 1-2; I get the point of stopping OTK's, but it allows Karakuri some consistency and that's a Deck that can utilize it well without necessarily being an "OTK" engine. [/quote] Well enough people are saying it and agree with it, and since I do to I'll just move Mind Con to forbidden. cbf typing up explanation now though. Good Karakuris don't run it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341699250' post='5969796'] Well enough people are saying it and agree with it, and since I do to I'll just move Mind Con to forbidden. cbf typing up explanation now though. Good Karakuris don't run it anyway. [/quote] I think the simplest explanation is that it's a +0 that can generate game-winning plays with absolutely no restrictions when you consider what it can do in the Meta today. I've actually seem some interesting builds that run it at 2, and can quite effectively end up with 3-4 Synchros on the field in a single turn. I suppose I could agree with the logic of banning it, anyway, but I'm unsure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Î’yakuya Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Seeing that this ideal format is for promoting decks with skill, it seems you took an immediate approach to getting rid of them auto pilot decks. You have any opinions on One Day of Peace Chris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 [quote name='Neo Galaxy' timestamp='1341699488' post='5969806'] I think the simplest explanation is that it's a +0 that can generate game-winning plays with absolutely no restrictions when you consider what it can do in the Meta today. I've actually seem some interesting builds that run it at 2, and can quite effectively end up with 3-4 Synchros on the field in a single turn. I suppose I could agree with the logic of banning it, anyway, but I'm unsure. [/quote] I know the explanation, but I keep thinking that there's more to it and can't think of it too. And I'm just lazy atm. So... it's used for OTK purposes... So you just solidified why it should be banned even more.[quote name='Light Υagami' timestamp='1341699657' post='5969809'] Seeing that this ideal format is for promoting decks with skill, it seems you took an immediate approach to getting rid of them auto pilot decks. You have any opinions on One Day of Peace Chris? [/quote] What use does it have without alt wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341697003' post='5969738'] But as stated, triple Drain and call it anti-meta is just a mindless thing to do and doesn't promote skill at all. It's a fair point, but idk how much 3 Lumina can be abused. I was iffy on banning both, but both could serve good reasoning to be banned, I just never had a compelling argument for Mind Con. [/quote] I suppose. Lumina doesnt have a lot to abuse in a broken way here,chaos dragons are dead,zombiesworns are meh all in all,and chaos LS would just be good but not devastating. It's probably safe. Well,MC turns one of the opponent's resources into immediate field presence and fodder for whatever at no cost,is that compelling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Crouton Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 In summary: Hit everything OTK-friendly/interaction killers/badly designed, push old archetypes, make current decks less crazy, and bring back cards that don't/never deserved to be banned/limited? Not hitting the Rail Gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 [quote name='God Machismo!!!!!' timestamp='1341700305' post='5969826'] In summary: Hit everything OTK-friendly/interaction killers/badly designed, push old archetypes, make current decks less crazy, and bring back cards that don't/never deserved to be banned/limited? Not hitting the Rail Gun? [/quote] The what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Raptor Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Rank 10 with 2K burn. Also known as Gustaph Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Crouton Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341700371' post='5969828'] The what? [/quote] The Rank 10, 3000 ATKer that burns 2000? I remember a lot of complaints about that card being nuts in Hieratics or something? Idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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