TheDragonMasterKnight Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Where's Laggia? That card wins games. Also, Atum can be abused so much that it's crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='TheDragonMasterKnight' timestamp='1343422603' post='5990453'] Where's Laggia? That card wins games. Also, Atum can be abused so much that it's crazy. [/quote] Excellent, very well thought-out reasonings you have there. Laggia's not even a problem card. =/ Atum without Redmd is a lost cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDragonMasterKnight Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I guess with your list Laggia isn't a problem. Sorry, I was just thinking that it's a walking Solemn Judgement at 3 and is a 2400 beater. Not to mention rabbit abuses it. Sorry man, I was just going off of the current banlist, not yours. I'm just not with it today. Anyways, Atum is still annoying because it just randomly pulls a dragon of any level from the deck. The best combo may be with REDMD, but there are still others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='TheDragonMasterKnight' timestamp='1343425111' post='5990478'] Anyways, Atum is still annoying because it just randomly pulls a dragon of any level from the deck. The best combo may be with REDMD, but there are still others. [/quote] Such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1343421596' post='5990439'] Hornet is the only problem card. Floater Inzektors can still be an actual deck. As for the DW argument. I would much rather someone prove to me that hitting Broww isn't the right thing to do. [/quote] Why are people deadset on Grepha dodging the list? I would much rather have someone explain to me why Grepha [i]shouldn't [/i]be on the list. And "DW won't be competitive anymore" is not an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Wizarus' timestamp='1343425777' post='5990487'] Why are people deadset on Grepha dodging the list? I would much rather have someone explain to me why Grepha [i]shouldn't [/i]be on the list. And "DW won't be competitive anymore" is not an argument. [/quote] Then what do you actually consider an argument? The fact that it shoots the deck in the leg without destroying it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Just gonna put it like this, so, hopefully, no one does it again. Even if you kill the Zars for some reason beyond me, Rabbit doesn't die. To meet assorted non-generic needs, we have: [spoiler=Vanillas/Guaibas] WATER: Hydrogeddon and Kabazauls, Gagagigo, Sea Serpent Warrior of Darkness, amnd Giant Red Sea Snake/7 Colored Fish. DARK: Evilswarm Heliotrope, Archfiend Soldier, Mad Dog of Darkness (Chain Dog would like if it was put in consistently), Dark Blade, Vorse Raider, Mechanicalchaser. EARTH: Gene Warped Warwolf, Gem-Knight Garnet, Gemini Elf, Gladiator Beast Andal, Insect Knight, Sabersaurus, X-Saber Anu Piranha, Beta the Magnet Warrior, Master Kyonshee. Specific degree, Gem-Knight Tourmaline. FIRE: Blazing Inpachi, Great Angus, and Guaiba. WIND: Girochin Kuwagata, Harpie's Brother, Luster Dragon, and Nin-Ken Dog. LIGHT: Alexandrite Dragon, Dunames Dark Witch, Neo the Magic Swordsman, Noble Knight Artorigus, and X-Head Cannon. [/spoiler] Now, not all of these are abusable at this place and time, but a fair few are. Rabbit has something for almost every niche and has bosses it can abuse even without the Zars, like Evilswarm Ophion. Only listed by attribute for simplicity. And yes, I know that TheDragonMasterKnight recanted somewhat, but this is just in general on the topic of Rabbit vs. Zars. I only listed vanillas with 1700+, sans Tourmaline, so it's not like beaters are a problem. Rabbit has a huge pool of decent to good sized vanillas that can go into non-generic Xyz that have at least somewhat exploitable effects. There's also generic Xyz that don't mind being made of decent sized beaters, either. Rabbit is most definitely the problem, not the zars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1343425857' post='5990489'] Then what do you actually consider an argument? The fact that it shoots the deck in the leg without destroying it? [/quote] So changing it from broken to slightly less consistent but still broken is fixing anything? And why should Broww be hit, when it's clearly not the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Wizarus' timestamp='1343428106' post='5990515'] So changing it from broken to slightly less consistent but still broken is fixing anything? [/quote] idk why you're obsessed with taking away yugioh's obsession with boss monsters. Decks are given them because that's how to play yugioh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1343428241' post='5990517'] idk why you're obsessed with taking away yugioh's obsession with boss monsters. Decks are given them because that's how to play yugioh. [/quote] I don't have a problem with boss monsters, I have a problem with broken and horribly designed cards not on the list . The game is waist deep in s*** because of these cards dodging the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 [quote name='Wizarus' timestamp='1343428786' post='5990526'] I don't have a problem with boss monsters, I have a problem with broken and horribly designed cards not on the list . The game is waist deep in s*** because of these cards dodging the list. [/quote] Umm..then isnt it simple to just play a different game other than Ju-Li-Oh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I like how next to everyone in this page assumes that how konami has designed the game after PTDN,around lolwtf free drop boss monsters, is perfectly 100% right and has [i]absolutely[/i] no need to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 [quote name='mido9' timestamp='1343435093' post='5990587'] I like how next to everyone in this page assumes that how konami has designed the game after PTDN,around lolwtf free drop boss monsters, is perfectly 100% right and has [i]absolutely[/i] no need to be changed. [/quote] No. My viewpoint is simply that yugioh has always been about the big pay-off. The boss monster at the end, if you will. Why change that by going after the boss where you can dampen the deck to the point where the boss is no longer broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1343421596' post='5990439'] As for the DW argument. I would much rather someone prove to me that hitting Broww isn't the right thing to do. [/quote] Perhaps you can prove that hitting Snoww isn't the right thing to do, and they can use the same process. Either Broww or Snoww is going to go. That's my prediction. Both are just as bad in all honesty, but Grapha going is doubtful because of how they handled Agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 [quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1343436179' post='5990599'] Perhaps you can prove that hitting Snoww isn't the right thing to do, and they can use the same process. Either Broww or Snoww is going to go. That's my prediction. Both are just as bad in all honesty, but Grapha going is doubtful because of how they handled Agents. [/quote] I've explained Broww in like 3 different threads, but I guess I'll just do it again. -Leaves DWs with incredibly minimal "good" monsters. Literally just Snoww and Grapha. -Forces them to run 3 Beiige and moving away from being solid DW, meaning that Dragged Down becomes less broken. -Lets them keep Snoww to retain a little bit of consistency. -Lets them keep Grapha, whom without, they just suck. Those are the important points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazooie Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Actually, hitting Broww would really hurt the deck. It's such a good card, and it's nice to have simply because Snoww will run out of targets fairly quickly. I thinking testing is needed obviously, but as is, I can see hitting Broww as a reasonable choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 DWs won't be run if any of them are hit, regardless. Thing is, hitting Broww is what hurts them the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1343436929' post='5990604'] I've explained Broww in like 3 different threads, but I guess I'll just do it again. -Leaves DWs with incredibly minimal "good" monsters. Literally just Snoww and Grapha. -Forces them to run 3 Beiige and moving away from being solid DW, meaning that Dragged Down becomes less broken. -Lets them keep Snoww to retain a little bit of consistency. -Lets them keep Grapha, whom without, they just suck. Those are the important points. [/quote] Same can be said about hitting Snoww, just replace all the Snoww points with Broww. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 [quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1343437392' post='5990609'] Same can be said about hitting Snoww, just replace all the Snoww points with Broww. [/quote] Broww doesn't give them consistency. .-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1343437578' post='5990610'] Broww doesn't give them consistency. .-. [/quote] Extra draw gives a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 [quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1343437627' post='5990611'] Extra draw gives a bit. [/quote] Not even remotely comparable to Snoww though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1343434697' post='5990583'] Umm..then isnt it simple to just play a different game other than Ju-Li-Oh? [/quote] I've already started to switch to CFV and I'm going to see how this Kaijudo game is going to turn out. I'm not saying I hate Yugioh, I wouldn't be on here if I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Alright then. So how is the list testing out so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3lly N3rd Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Is this pinned? This needs to get pinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted August 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Dat updated OP. For those that don't know, within the next couple of weeks I'm gonna host a tourney using this list (maybe with a few other alterations by then) so it'd be in everyone's interest to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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