zackazz2010 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Each of these cards is used to stop the use of decks centered around Xyz, Synchro, and Fusion (Spirit-Ripping of the Extra), Exodia and possibly Mill decks (Harnessing Essence of Ill-Gotten Gain), and monsters designed to be special summoned for xyz/synchro material (Banishment of the Special Arts). I made these, give me your criticism on these personal creations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Ever heard of Royal Oppression? Know why it was banned? The third of these cards is fine, I suppose, although I don't see why drawing needs to be punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 [img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120720012522/yugioh/images/thumb/9/97/SummonLimit-LODT-EN-C-UE.png/300px-SummonLimit-LODT-EN-C-UE.png[/img][img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120621222243/yugioh/images/thumb/b/b1/SolemnWarning-CT08-EN-SR-LE.png/300px-SolemnWarning-CT08-EN-SR-LE.png[/img][img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100811081558/yugioh/images/thumb/8/80/RoyalDecreeRP02-EN-R-UE.jpg/300px-RoyalDecreeRP02-EN-R-UE.jpg[/img] Hello, my name is Konami. I did those things you just said only more gooder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Okay, how the hell does Warning stop repetitive decks? (I.e, meta decks I suppose). It just makes them stronger, if anything. And same with Decree. All it does is make the meta decks stronger. But summon limit is strictly for pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1345166401' post='6008636'] Okay, how the hell does Warning stop repetitive decks? (I.e, meta decks I suppose). It just makes them stronger, if anything. And same with Decree. All it does is make the meta decks stronger. But summon limit is strictly for pros. [/quote] Okay, I'll spell it out for you. 1. Summon Limit is a superior Banishment of the Special Arts. And nobody runs Summon Limit. While many decks can special summon multiple times per turn, they generally only do it as part of a combo or in order to push for game. 2. Solemn Warning has infinitely more utility than Spirit-Ripping of the Extra. 3. Royal Decree prevents Exodia from...winning. The only workable Exodia deck is chain exodia, which builds large chains and a sizeable Life Point gap to fuel Hope for an Escape and Accumulated Fortune, using Jar of Greed, Waboku, and even Gift Card as bridge cards. All traps. There's also Protector of the Sanctuary, if you want a card that simply prevents your opponent from making extra draws. All I'm saying is there are cards that do the job better than these do. There are even cards with basically the same effect that are just better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Dr. Cakey!!' timestamp='1345167586' post='6008662'] Okay, I'll spell it out for you. 1. Summon Limit is a superior Banishment of the Special Arts. And nobody runs Summon Limit. While many decks can special summon multiple times per turn, they generally only do it as part of a combo or in order to push for game. 2. Solemn Warning has infinitely more utility than Spirit-Ripping of the Extra. 3. Royal Decree prevents Exodia from...winning. The only workable Exodia deck is chain exodia, which builds large chains and a sizeable Life Point gap to fuel Hope for an Escape and Accumulated Fortune, using Jar of Greed, Waboku, and even Gift Card as bridge cards. All traps. There's also Protector of the Sanctuary, if you want a card that simply prevents your opponent from making extra draws. All I'm saying is there are cards that do the job better than these do. There are even cards with basically the same effect that are just better. [/quote] I hardly think that the last card was intended to stop Exodia. More likely he was playing against deep draw destiny heros, or pretty much anything playing an Allure of Darkness. And appropriate exodia is also workable. I am perfectly aware that exodia exists, except seeing the flavor of these cards I think it is unlikely that is what they were intended to stop. Can somebody explain how a card that limits them to TWO summons per turn is superior to a card that limits them to ONE special summon per turn? What exactly are they going to do, Ultimate Offering? Also, Banishment lets the card be Special Summoned, but just negates it. There is a big difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1345168969' post='6008709'] I hardly think that the last card was intended to stop Exodia. More likely he was playing against deep draw destiny heros, or pretty much anything playing an Allure of Darkness. And appropriate exodia is also workable. I am perfectly aware that exodia exists, except seeing the flavor of these cards I think it is unlikely that is what they were intended to stop.[/quote] Well maybe it was, I only assumed it was anti-Exodia because Exodia is the current best deck that massive-draws, the creator said it was anti-Exodia, and the card's last effect is specifically designed to shut down Exodia. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1345168969' post='6008709'] Can somebody explain how a card that limits them to TWO summons per turn is superior to a card that limits them to ONE special summon per turn? What exactly are they going to do, Ultimate Offering? Also, Banishment lets the card be Special Summoned, but just negates it. There is a big difference there. [/quote] Well, it's better by 400 Life Points per turn, I guess. When I first posted it, I really just meant they were effectively identical. But Summon Limit actually has a couple of other advantages, most notably the fact that it can be chained to disrupt your opponent's play. That's not important, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Dr. Cakey!!' timestamp='1345174123' post='6008812'] Well maybe it was, I only assumed it was anti-Exodia because Exodia is the current best deck that massive-draws, the creator said it was anti-Exodia, and the card's last effect is specifically designed to shut down Exodia.[/quote] Sorry, my bad. Didn't see that. [quote] Well, it's better by 400 Life Points per turn, I guess. When I first posted it, I really just meant they were effectively identical. But Summon Limit actually has a couple of other advantages, most notably the fact that it can be chained to disrupt your opponent's play. That's not important, though. [/quote] Not really. If you are going to chain, they usually haven't special summoned multiple times already. Plus, the ability to be able to special summon, and then destroy it, is much more powerful. I suppose it matters what deck you are running it in, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 The biggest problem with making anti-Meta cards (this goes for real life ones as well) is the simple fact that by nature the Meta CHANGES, so if you make cards specific to an existing problem with the meta, the cards are useless once the meta changes. My advice in all honesty: [u][b]avoid making anti-meta cards[/b][/u] or at least make cards more general purpose toward "problems". That's why older or simply cards like Royal Decree, Compulsory Evac Device and Royal Oppression still saw more usage than modern cards... with a few exceptions. Plus, you'll never have to worry about having to argue people on what works against what and what is actually a "problem" and what is "broken" and has to be stopped because everyone's going to have a different opinion. [u]Your own cards[/u] are ok, but it is true that there are simple but better candidates in the real game, so there was no need to have so many nerfs and restrictions. It doesn't balance a card just to make it hard to play, sometimes simple is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Shinobi Phoenix' timestamp='1345179269' post='6008903'] The biggest problem with making anti-Meta cards (this goes for real life ones as well) is the simple fact that by nature the Meta CHANGES, so if you make cards specific to an existing problem with the meta, the cards are useless once the meta changes. My advice in all honesty: [u][b]avoid making anti-meta cards[/b][/u] or at least make cards more general purpose toward "problems". That's why older or simply cards like Royal Decree, Compulsory Evac Device and Royal Oppression still saw more usage than modern cards... with a few exceptions. Plus, you'll never have to worry about having to argue people on what works against what and what is actually a "problem" and what is "broken" and has to be stopped because everyone's going to have a different opinion. [u]Your own cards[/u] are ok, but it is true that there are simple but better candidates in the real game, so there was no need to have so many nerfs and restrictions. It doesn't balance a card just to make it hard to play, sometimes simple is best. [/quote] What? This doesn't make any sense. The only thing you shouldn't do is say "ok, here is a card, lets find a way to counter it." Because in that case the meta will change. What you can do is say "ok, here is something a lot of decks will always do, lets find a way to counter that." Then you end up with well designed cards like Necrovalley and Compulsory Evacuation Device. The only type of anti-meta that shouldn't be made is cards that give a +1 on use, like Royal Decree/Oppression, cards that lock your opponent out of the game and can be used in anything, i.e. the "hypocritical" cards like like Imperial Order and Royal Oppression, and anti-something cards like Anti-Raigeki and White Hole because they are either uberly swingy or just a dead draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1345180463' post='6008923'] What? This doesn't make any sense. The only thing you shouldn't do is say "ok, here is a card, lets find a way to counter it." Because in that case the meta will change. What you can do is say "ok, here is something a lot of decks will always do, lets find a way to counter that." Then you end up with well designed cards like Necrovalley and Compulsory Evacuation Device. The only type of anti-meta that shouldn't be made is cards that give a +1 on use, like Royal Decree/Oppression, cards that lock your opponent out of the game and can be used in anything, i.e. the "hypocritical" cards like like Imperial Order and Royal Oppression, and anti-something cards like Anti-Raigeki and White Hole because they are either uberly swingy or just a dead draw. [/quote] I'm pretty sure carrying on a conversation about THAT isn't going to help THIS guy with his cards, is it? As I said, everyone going to have wildly different opinions on the topic of anti-meta. I don't think most of what you just said made any sense and I can promise you, not everyone (as in most that have their own voice and mind about these things) believe in or care about any of that "+1" "-1" stuff. So like I said: [u][b]Advice to the ACTUAL thread-maker[/b][/u]: Avoid anti-meta, make general purpose or just not worry about it and make stuff to please yourself, not because some deck is beating you, there's always ways in the real game to beat those. The anti-meta decks in real life have NEVER lasted, the ones that just do as you feel like playing do (we still have Gladiator Beast and Black Feather, don't we?). The closest I come to making an anti-meta deck is in the fact that my favorite decks to build for tend to be anti-Graveyard [u]by nature[/u] (not function). GK, Banishers/Macro Cosmos-ish, etc. The current meta being what it is, Banishers eat most of these decks alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Shinobi Phoenix' timestamp='1345181986' post='6008937'] I'm pretty sure carrying on a conversation about THAT isn't going to help THIS guy with his cards, is it? As I said, everyone going to have wildly different opinions on the topic of anti-meta. I don't think most of what you just said made any sense and I can promise you, not everyone (as in most that have their own voice and mind about these things) believe in or care about any of that "+1" "-1" stuff.[/quote] Card advantage is the basis of Yu-Gi-Oh! - there are no two ways around that. Ignoring it is sort of like expecting to win a drag race without a fuel tank. All you need to do is look at the best decks, past and present, to recognize that. [quote name='Shinobi Phoenix' timestamp='1345181986' post='6008937'] So like I said: [u][b]Advice to the ACTUAL thread-maker[/b][/u]: Avoid anti-meta, make general purpose or just not worry about it and make stuff to please yourself, not because some deck is beating you, there's always ways in the real game to beat those. The anti-meta decks in real life have NEVER lasted, the ones that just do as you feel like playing do (we still have Gladiator Beast and Black Feather, don't we?). The closest I come to making an anti-meta deck is in the fact that my favorite decks to build for tend to be anti-Graveyard [u]by nature[/u] (not function). GK, Banishers/Macro Cosmos-ish, etc. The current meta being what it is, Banishers eat most of these decks alive. [/quote] I suppose so. The only trick would be getting set up before your opponent does. But I do agree, going for anti-meta is probably not a good idea. Most of it comes from people who got pissed because Inzektors beat their 60-card Crystal Beasts or something. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1345180463' post='6008923'] What? This doesn't make any sense. The only thing you shouldn't do is say "ok, here is a card, lets find a way to counter it." Because in that case the meta will change. What you can do is say "ok, here is something a lot of decks will always do, lets find a way to counter that." [/quote] A lot of people think the flavor of the meta never changes. Easy mistake to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 The second card doesn't stop basic Fusion Summons because you can't negate "the Summon of" a Fusion Monster that was Fusion Summoned by a Spell Card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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