US 2012 Presidential Election

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1347669032' post='6025276']
More or less. People believe what they believe because they were raised to believe it.
[/quote]
Fortunately that is not always the case. Example me. Some kids do break away from their parents ideological views and some parents are okay with that while some are not.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Comrade TentaSparkle' timestamp='1347669225' post='6025279']
Well, I was implying a religious private school.
[/quote]
As was I. I went to a Catholic School until HS, and than I went to a Cristian school for the next 4 years. I might not be 100% on the middle school teaching it, but I'm almost positive it came up. I know it did in HS.




[quote name='Izaya Orihara' timestamp='1347669325' post='6025281']
Fortunately that is not always the case. Example me. Some kids do break away from their parents ideological views and some parents are okay with that while some are not.
[/quote]
But of course. However the majoirty do keep with what ever they might have been taught.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1347669535' post='6025286']
But of course. However the majoirty do keep with what ever they might have been taught.
[/quote]
I probably shouldn't use me as an example. My mother never really had opinions so I can't clarify.

[FTW (For The Wynn)]

I love how this degenerated off topic.

Anyway, there are the "missing links", the fact that everyone thinks Darwin's theories are still valid (which isn't so much a mistake on the theory as it is a mistake on what is being taught), etc.

And no, I'm not bashing evolution. I believe there is a lot of truth to it. However, I don't believe that it is truly valid to say that it is the right answer at this time. I think both religion and evolution should be taught so that everyone can understand what they are talking about before they say it. [s]Mostly because I get tired of a bunch of bible-thumpers vs atheists that are actually children whose parents didn't love them enough and now they hate everything.[/s]

However, the reason things are theories and not facts are because science is ever-changing, and our understanding is ever-growing. To presume that something must be because someone said so is stupid, both for evolutionists and creationists. In 5 years, the theory of evolution might become outdated.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote name='GodWynn' timestamp='1347676850' post='6025360']
I love how this degenerated off topic.

Anyway, there are the "missing links", the fact that everyone thinks Darwin's theories are still valid (which isn't so much a mistake on the theory as it is a mistake on what is being taught), etc.
[/quote]
That argument itself is outdated.
[url="http://www.science20.com/between_death_and_data/missing_link_fallacy-75791"]http://www.science20...k_fallacy-75791[/url]
It is a monster of an article but it pretty much sums up the "Missing Link Fallacy".

[i]"The point to draw from all this, if you haven’t understood any of the above explanations, is that the need for transitional fossils, at all scales, is simply not there. They are of course, handy, illustrative of processes, and provide the most direct proof of our hypotheses, but they are by no means the only means of proof that two lineages are related."[/i]

And this did not degenerate off topic. The conversation was about Evolution and its teachings in public schools. You advocated even teaching while I disagreed. Comrade and many other users then talked about school teachings of evolution in general and how different schools can teach different things and on student choices. All of these were completely on-topic.

[Agro]

I'm voting Obama.

I hate the idea that "Government should be run like a business" that the Republicans seem to be taking, and they're just way too out there in terms of political leaning at this point in time. It's not just that I want them to lose, the NEED to lose. Otherwise they'll just get more and more conservative and then the country will have some serious issues.

Plus, while people may not like Obama, the majority of that flack is because he's done a lot of things that aren't politically good moves, but are excellent decisions for the country. His first action hasn't really been "how will this affect my chances of re-election", and more "how will this affect the American people". I can respect that.

What I can't respect is Romney's obvious flip-flopping. He'll change whatever he thinks just to please his base, whether it's good for the country or not.

I'm voting for Obama because I don't want the government to be run like a business, I want it to be run like a family. I'm voting for Obama because I'd rather have a president than a politician.

[quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1347490543' post='6024089']
I'd rather have a more constructed OP for a debate.

tbh, my biggest reason for wanting Obama again is because Congressional majority is likely to change. I don't want Romney in there with a Dem majority and we have to go through the same stuff only reversed.
[/quote]The joke has commonly been that Dems "pussy out" and give into compromises much easier than the Republicans do.

[quote name='✖C.C.✖' timestamp='1347486032' post='6024027']
I'm for Romney, sadly.
[/quote]Sadly?

[Tentacruel]

To be honest, I'm voting for Obama while firmly standing outside of the Democratic party. They've become far too closed off to people who don't fit in their little world, as ironic as that sounds.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote name='Comrade TentaSparkle' timestamp='1347800986' post='6026109']
To be honest, I'm voting for Obama while firmly standing outside of the Democratic party. They've become far too closed off to people who don't fit in their little world, as ironic as that sounds.
[/quote]
And the Republican Party hasn't?

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Izaya Orihara' timestamp='1347812502' post='6026177']
And the Republican Party hasn't?
[/quote]
Oh, Republicans are arguably worse, but a lot of Democrats hide behind that and act like they're super tolerant. Democrats are only tolerant in the sense that they tolerate people that Republicans don't.

I just can't support either party with a clear conscience.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote name='Comrade TentaSparkle' timestamp='1347819371' post='6026223']
Oh, Republicans are arguably worse, but a lot of Democrats hide behind that and act like they're super tolerant. Democrats are only tolerant in the sense that they tolerate people that Republicans don't.

I just can't support either party with a clear conscience.
[/quote]
Tis true.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Comrade TentaSparkle' timestamp='1347800986' post='6026109']
To be honest, I'm voting for Obama while firmly standing outside of the Democratic party. They've become far too closed off to people who don't fit in their little world, as ironic as that sounds.
[/quote]
I actually saw a video on that not to long ago.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-september-5-2012/hope-and-change-2---the-party-of-inclusion

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1347824896' post='6026259']
I actually saw a video on that not to long ago.
[url="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-september-5-2012/hope-and-change-2---the-party-of-inclusion"]http://www.thedailys...ty-of-inclusion[/url]
[/quote]

I was actually about to post that video. Thanks!

[Agro]

I vote for John Stewart.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote name='Agro' timestamp='1347826069' post='6026270']
I vote for John Stewart.
[/quote]
I would vote for the man if he didn't act like a fool sometimes.
His reaction to the Writer's Strike was dubious and his outright "Ron Paul dun get enuf screen tyme!" rant's don't help at all. Then again he is a comedian. I don't believe that Ron Paul should get any screen time. The more people tend to believe his crap the more of a problem he becomes.

[Mehmani]

For God's sake, everyone knew when Obama was elected he'd get two terms. For me, the interesting thing is to see how close this election is, and how the American right will respond once they realize that by indulging the crazies, they will never get elected.

[Agro]

People don't like Ron Paul because of his ideals, they like him because he sticks to them. Unlike most politicians, his views haven't changed over the years.

And your statement is one that could very much be correlated to many other people in politics with the base idea behind it being "I don't agree with him nor like his ideas, therefore he shouldn't get any screen time."

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote name='Agro' timestamp='1347832522' post='6026315']
People don't like Ron Paul because of his ideals, they like him because he sticks to them. Unlike most politicians, his views haven't changed over the years.

And your statement is one that could very much be correlated to many other people in politics with the base idea behind it being "I don't agree with him nor like his ideas, therefore he shouldn't get any screen time."
[/quote]
I usually would agree with this but when a person's ideals become too estranged to the point of dangerous, I would prefer them not to get notoriety. Wanting to cut back progress over the last 150 years is dangerous in my view.

[Agro]

[quote name='Izaya Orihara' timestamp='1347841422' post='6026388']
I usually would agree with this but when a person's ideals become too estranged to the point of dangerous, I would prefer them not to get notoriety. Wanting to cut back progress over the last 150 years is dangerous in my view.
[/quote]I wouldn't see it as dangerous. Liberty may be a core foundation of the "American Ideal", but Libertarianism is very much too far in most people's mind.

A lot of people agree with him on deregulating certain areas, but still, by holding that basic idea, he'll push them away on several other issues. That's why he could never be elected president, whether he gets screen time or not.

[Mehmani]

Sticking to your ideals over a long period of time shows that you are stubborn. You should change your ideas depending on new data or knowledge. What the public want is a politician who'll stick to their election pledges and follow through. Obama couldn't because Congress blocked pretty much everything. Also, regardless of opinion, free speech is incredibly important. To me, it's the most important thing about the western world. Without it, we'd be nowhere. That's why I'm scratching my head with regards to how the Lebanese Coptic Christian that made "Innocence of Muslims" has been arrested.

[Bull3tM0nk3y]

[quote name='Mihails Tāls' timestamp='1347865736' post='6026538']
Sticking to your ideals over a long period of time shows that you are stubborn. You should change your ideas depending on new data or knowledge. What the public want is a politician who'll stick to their election pledges and follow through. Obama couldn't because Congress blocked pretty much everything. Also, regardless of opinion, free speech is incredibly important. To me, it's the most important thing about the western world. Without it, we'd be nowhere. That's why I'm scratching my head with regards to how the Lebanese Coptic Christian that made "Innocence of Muslims" has been arrested.
[/quote]


Don't remind me of that movie.


It's goddamn retarded that a relgion would get upset over a movie. But then again, Christains got upset over a soft drink and a cookie.


But they didn't kill anyone over it...

[Legend Zero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XnB0NZzl5HA

Dat hidden camera.

[Flame Dragon]

I personally found it funnier when Santorum called his own party stupid
http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/rick-santorum-says-smart-people-will-never-be-on

[Bull3tM0nk3y]

Um. Isn't that what Nixon did? Except just audio.

[FTW (For The Wynn)]

@Izaya: I liked the article. Very informative. However, it seems to me to be very ignorant considering the number of times he razzed "creationists". And as for why I think that there should be opportunity to teach facets of both religion and evolution in class, well then, this entire thing with "Innocence of Muslims" in the news should show you why. Now, before you (or anyone) goes off about how wrong the religion is (and there are fallacies in any belief, science or religion), I would not ask such an education to be to influence you to change your beliefs, just to allow you to understand the beliefs of others. A change in beliefs should only be done if one wishes to do it.

As for the movie that is causing so much protest, it is a matter of belief. If someone were to make a movie about how great the KKK is, you would probably see similar things happen to Klan members by say the black community and anyone who supports their position. The Islamic religion is very important in so-called Middle Eastern countries. You may not believe it, but they do. And, as part of their religion, many believe that the visage of the prophet Muhammad should not be seen. Or, better yet, Wikipedia's entry on it.

"[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]The permissibility of depictions of [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad"]Muhammad[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], the founder of [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam"]Islam[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], has long been a concern in the [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam"]history of Islam[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]. Oral and written descriptions are readily accepted by all traditions of [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam"]Islam[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], but there is disagreement about visual depictions.[/size][/font][/color][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depictions_of_Muhammad#cite_note-best-0"][1][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depictions_of_Muhammad#cite_note-a-1"][2][/url][/sup][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] The [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran"]Quran[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] does not explicitly forbid images of Muhammad, but there are a few [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith"]hadith[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3](supplemental teachings) which have explicitly prohibited Muslims from creating visual depictions of figures.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]Most [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni"]Sunni[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] Muslims believe that visual depictions of all the [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam"]prophets of Islam[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] should be prohibited[/size][/font][/color][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depictions_of_Muhammad#cite_note-Larsson-2"][3][/url][/sup][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] and are particularly averse to visual representations of Muhammad.[/size][/font][/color]"

Not only that, they felt that the movie ridiculed their religion, their very way of life.

TL;DR version: Everyone's ignorant. To ridicule anyone over their beliefs is something everything teaches us not to do, but we do it anyway because only what we believe must be right.

[Bull3tM0nk3y]

[quote name='GodWynn' timestamp='1347923444' post='6026916']
TL;DR version: Everyone's ignorant. To ridicule anyone over their beliefs is something everything teaches us not to do, but we do it anyway because only what we believe must be right.
[/quote]

True. It is our rights in this country.

But what about the batsh#t insane ones?