"Target 1 monster on the field; destroy that target."

[DunnoBro]

[quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1352477992' post='6064747']
@Dunnobro
Stardust, zenmaines, and Maestroke beg to differ, all of which are really popular right now. Actually, I don't think you know how comparisons work. Book of moon has 2 sides, sort of like a coin. On one side, you can hamper your opponent's plays in the same manner as this card. If book was restricted to this side, then these 2 cards would be indentical. Except, it has another side to the coin: you can use it on yourself and still collect benefits. With this card, not so much. Book and this card are incredibly different, because book has another depth of use that sees as much play? If not more, than the dude which it shares with this card.
[/quote]

I already acknowledged book has differences between this card. Quit backtracking to points i already disproved. Also stardust is hardly that popular right now, it's fairly rare. Nice try grasping, though. It's irrelevant either way, anyhow.

Like i already said, book being more versatile, or this one being less, is irrelevant. You can still compare them on the many situations they overlap. Of course, there IS a limit to how deep you can compare them. But they can still be compared, nonetheless. Especially since book is mostly used in the former manne you gave, not the latter.

And no, even if book was restricted to that side, they would not be identical. If one was playing semantics so steadfast as you, they could still argue they aren't comparable due to cards like tengu existing. Or the dust/maines argument.

The fact is, they can be compared on many levels. And if you don't want to touch on those points(probably because they destroy your case) then don't reply, because they are entirely comparable on those points. Extra situations or differences are irrelevant, as on the levels i provided above, they CAN be compared.

Again, i remind you that you have no clue how comparisons work, and are probably misunderstanding to what extent I'm comparing them.
Because otherwise, you'd need to deny they are not comparable on these reasons, do you still deny it?


Shutting down synchro/xyz plays
Saving your monsters in BP
Preventing ignition effects
And of course, Monster removal (in bom's case, preparing to run it's lower def body down later)

[Sander]

[quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1352477992' post='6064747']
On one side, you can hamper your opponent's plays in the same manner as this card. If book was restricted to this side, then these 2 cards would be indentical. Except, it has another side to the coin: you can use it on yourself and still collect benefits. With this card, not so much. Book and this card are incredibly different, because book has another depth of use that sees as much play? If not more, than the dude which it shares with this card.
[/quote]

Book and this card are similar so they can be compared to each other. Clearly YOU don't know how comparisons work. Also, Book of Moon was only popular because it allowed you to hamper your opponents plays, nobody really used it to save their own monsters that much. So the fact here is that this card has the same aspect that made Book of Moon so popular to begin with.

tl;dr: Book of Moon and this card aren't so "incredibly different" just because it can affect your own monsters.

[DunnoBro]

People used it to save their monsters from attacks all the time, but i get what you meant. Book was usually used on one's own monsters in desperation, when it would still keep them in a losing situation, but not as big of one. The "saving your monsters" was one of the furthest down on the list of uses for people who ran trip book.

[Just Crouton]

[quote name='DunnoBro' timestamp='1352473964' post='6064683']
*Facepalm* [b]Raigeki break is a -1, this is a 141[/b]. That makes this card objectively superior. Weaker? Maybe in effect, but overall the card is much better.
[/quote]

Oh right. I get it now.

[Sckorpio]

Broken: Yes op: kinda ban worthy:no

I get how you could say this is op but compared to some its kinda weak i think this card needs a cost but not a big one, mabye discard a card or lower your LP by 300 or something like that. Apart from that i would put it in my deck.

[DunnoBro]

Don't think anyone said it was banworthy?

[Sora1499]

@Dunnobro
I see your point. You can have this argument, I don't care.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

I'm sorry, but I think I have to come in now.

I can't believe there's two pages of statements I couldn't even come CLOSE to agreeing with.


This isn't powerful, it's certainly not broken, damn sure not banworthy. This might have seen use in the days BEFORE GX, and probably during it since cards in that era sucked, but definitely not now.

This is nothing more than a Trap version of [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Taker"]Soul Taker[/url] with a different "restriction" and ironically can't chain to anything on top of the fact the creator felt like being ANOTHER restriction on top of that. Not a single thing about it elicits this sort of debate and I'm actually sort of appalled that it did. I would have slapped this sort of simple but useful thing into a Structure Deck and gone about my business. Actually no, Starter Deck, something to teach people about rules and chains and the new Text Style that is simple and useful and not really that complicated.


Simple, useful, done. Nothing special about it that needs people arguing over being broken because holy crap is it not and people need to stop overblowing things or even using the words "OP" and "broken". They lose all meaning half the time someone even uses it.

[f. smith]

[quote name='Shinobi Phoenix' timestamp='1352504902' post='6065167']


This isn't powerful
[/quote]
Bads gonna bad.

[Just Crouton]

[quote name='Shinobi Phoenix' timestamp='1352504902' post='6065167']
This isn't powerful
[/quote]

Upon further review, and comparing it to a [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Treacherous_Trap_Hole"]personal favorite card of mine[/url], this card is really, really good. There's no condition or setup needed to play this. You can set it, then flip it opponent's turn to pop a card.

It's like Treacherous Trap Hole, but you can also run other Traps in the deck.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='American Machismo!!!!!' timestamp='1352505882' post='6065178']
Upon further review, and comparing it to a [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Treacherous_Trap_Hole"]personal favorite card of mine[/url], this card is really, really good. There's no condition or setup needed to play this. You can set it, then flip it opponent's turn to pop a card.

It's like Treacherous Trap Hole, but you can also run other Traps in the deck.
[/quote]


It's simple and useful (to a degree), not broken, not overpowered.


It's as good as EVERY OTHER CARD OF WHICH DOES THE SAME THING IN THIS GAME. Which means it's nothing special.



A Trap Soul Taker does not impress; didn't say it was bad, but I don't understand why there needs to be this much debate about it. I would in fact prefer Raigeki Break to it (that is one of my old favorites and I don't care about such things as hand advantage when the advantage is in changing the state of the field to my advantage in the first place, also all that +1/-1 crap is engineered pointless elitism that doesn't take in account personalities and individual playstyles).

Besides, Raigeki Break fits in decks where you want to dump anyway.

[Sora1499]

@Shinobi
Well, it's not quite that simple. The +s and -s are a general measurement of what sort of advantage a card nets you: drawing 2 cards from the deck is better than drawing 1 (by definition). While I would agree that, at times, -s can be better than +s, in general it's more reliable to get a + so you have something to fall back on instead of a -, which could screw you over if your opponent does something big next turn. And, as you said yourself, some people may prefer raigeki break over this, but others (including myself) would rather run this because it doesn't desecrate your hand advantage. Personal preference and play style definitely have a big role in the game, but most play styles lean towards different means of the same thing: getting +s.

Note: I said most play styles, not all, so I accept and acknowledge that there will be exceptions to what I just said.

[DunnoMan]

[quote name='Shinobi Phoenix' timestamp='1352581720' post='6065897']
also all that +1/-1 crap is engineered pointless elitism

[/quote]

Not sure if serious...

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1352588035' post='6065975']
@Shinobi
Well, it's not quite that simple. The +s and -s are a general measurement of what sort of advantage a card nets you: drawing 2 cards from the deck is better than drawing 1 (by definition). While I would agree that, at times, -s can be better than +s, in general it's more reliable to get a + so you have something to fall back on instead of a -, which could screw you over if your opponent does something big next turn. And, as you said yourself, some people may prefer raigeki break over this, but others (including myself) would rather run this because it doesn't desecrate your hand advantage. Personal preference and play style definitely have a big role in the game, but most play styles lean towards different means of the same thing: getting +s.

Note: I said most play styles, not all, so I accept and acknowledge that there will be exceptions to what I just said.
[/quote]


Most TCG Duelists don't have a playstyle who commit to such things, they copy what saw winning and repeat ad-nausea. This is why Remember the problem the game has with copycatting, Netdecking and Pojo (a group of people who insist on pushing such tactics and then still complain about the cheaters in the game and such harmful ideas as "Duels take too long"). This is why when you look at OCG Decks, the weirdness shows up among many winning decks, but TCG only keeps trying to recycle the same ones that were winning UNTIL the pieces or banned or a new card allows you to bring back an old deck (see also: Monarch Duelist still waiting for a card to bring them a comeback... and that might have been created recently in real life in Cosmo Blazer).

My playstyle is almost impossible to copy effectively because you would still have to think the way I do to make it work (and most players are not calculated risk-takers or caring to consider psychology when facing someone, just play what will just blow a problem out of the way and attack). The decks and cards that are bad for the game are ones that require no thought for a lot of reward, but also the ones that give little for too much. It's that simple.


If this card is so terrible, then Offering to the Doomed must be broken as hell since it's faster than this card, is chainable, and can be used during either turn multiple times a turn, except people ignore that since it doesn't let you draw next turn. Funny, how that works. Thus, people are so bloody petty about the most subjective.

So again, the card isn't bad, it's not great either. It's a simple effect for a simple cost/restriction (simple should have simple cost, complex should have higher reward, EVERYTHING ELSE is in the middle). I'd still rather play Raigeki Break though (especially in certain Decks like Infernity, Gravekeepers or Agent Angels), but this card isn't even close to badly designed, let alone as bad as people here are acting like it is.