[Chance's Singles] - The most bizarre yet powerful and perhaps balanced equip spell card that can be splashed into nearly all decks!

[Strider Tigerwolf]

[center][img]http://yugico.com/customcard/136899.jpg[/img][/center]
[center][b]Lore:[/b][/center]
[center]Cannot be equipped or activated from the Deck. When this card is activated: Call 3 Monster Types, 2 Attributes and Spell/Trap; this card and the equipped monster are unaffected by the effects of any of the called card types and cannot be destroyed by battle by any cards of the called types. Monster(s) equipped with this card can only attack cards with the monster types or Attributes called and cannot attack set cards or attack directly. When a monster equipped with this card battles another monster: Halve the ATK of the other monster and gain Life Points equal to the amount of ATK decreased. Only 1 "Maristyr, the Ever-Changing Life Blade" can be equipped to a monster.[/center]

[center][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]It can still be added to your hand by Hidden Armory, and can provide protection to a select range of monsters while adding a Healing Benefit. So...what do you guys think?[/size][/font][/color][/center]

[Soildier dude 2312]

it seems a bit complicated

[.Exa]

[quote name='Soildier dude 2312' timestamp='1353002508' post='6070304']
it seems a bit complicated
[/quote]
That and:
[quote][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"[color=#000000][size=3]battles a monster: Half the attack of the attacked monster"[/size][/color][/font][/quote]
Half the attack what the what?

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Lol, my bad. Let me fix, and explain:

I have X monster on the field and then I equip it with this card. Let's assume my opponent is playing X-Sabers. I call Warriors, Beast-Warriors and Beasts. Next, I call 2 Elements: EARTH and DARK. Finally, I call Spells.

My equipped monster and equip cannot be destroyed/affected by battle with all X-Saber monsters, Naturia monsters should they summon them later, Catastor and other DARK monsters, and my equip cannot be MSTed, my monster is unaffected by Forbidden Lance, Dark Hole, you name it. Also, when it attacks an opponent's monster, it halfs that monster's ATK and gives you the same amount of Life Points as that monster's ATK reduction. So if said monster was let's say 3000 ATK, it's ATK is cut to 1500, and you gain 1500 Life Points.

Better?

[DunnoMan]

No card can be activated from the deck, so that line is moot. (Red eyes darkness dragon is an inherent summon from the deck according to the ruling)

@Exa: I believe he meant "Halve"

Anyway, it's pretty busted. Unless I'm misunderstanding and that the monsters need both the declared types, AND ATTRIBUTES for anything to happen. But as i understand it, this is essentially a spell version of safe-zone with inherent protection. Although not 100% protection of the monster, it's extensive enough that when playing against competitive meta decks, one can accurately shut down all offenses against the monster.

Also, am i wrong in assuming that this card halves the attack of the opponent's monsters whenever a battle is conducted?
So this monster being destroyed by battle is already a fairly ridiculous notion if it has any semblance of defense/attack.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Vylon Sigma's effect:

[quote]
"When this card declares an attack, if it is the only monster you control: You can equip 1 Equip Spell Card from your Deck to this face-up card"
[/quote]

Because equipping requires the card to activate, I made sure this couldn't happen as it would make Vylon OTK (which is somewhat inconsistent anyway) more viable as it would trigger this card.

The card was to be a Safe Zone, that requires just 1 of called types. For example:

I call Beast, Beast-Warrior, Warrior, WIND, DARK, Spells.

My monster and Equip Spell cannot be destroyed/affected by:
Stardust Dragon (WIND)
Fierce Leader of the Fire Fist - Tiger (Beast-Warrior)
Dark Hole (Spell)
D.D. Warrior Lady (Warrior)
Dark Armed Dragon (DARK)
Earthbound Immortal Cusillu (Beast)

Gonna add another clause though.

Updated, and somewhat tried to fix the lore a bit.

[Thar]

[u][b]My OCG Fix:[/b][/u]

[color=#000000][font=Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif][size=3]Cannot be activated from the Deck. When this card is activated: Call 3 Monster Types, 2 Attributes and Spell/Trap; this card and the equipped monster are unaffected by the effects of any of the called card types and cannot be destroyed by battle by any monster of the called monster types or Attributes. Monsters equipped with this card can only attack cards with the monster types or Attributes called and cannot attack set cards or attack directly. When a monster equipped with this card battles a monster: Halfen the ATK of the attack target and gain Life Points equal to the amount of ATK decreased.[/size][/font][/color]

Last clause seems a bit forced for the constraints. Other than that...interesting card, I must say.

[DunnoMan]

Equipping is not activating. You do not need to activate a card to equip it, it just so happens that the normal way of equipping equip cards to monsters involves activating them as spells first.

However, the card you fear (Vylon Sigma) equips them, not activates them. Hence why it bypasses the discard cost of twin swords, because there is no activation. Just immediate equip.

And it could also still rip this card straight from the deck.

Change it to "Cannot be equipped from the deck" if you really want to avoid sigma, but really this isn't even the kind of card they'd go after anyway.

It's weird you point out sigma though, as I'm currently working on a support card for Vylons xD

[Strider Tigerwolf]

thanks to both of you! editing the card.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='DunnoMan' timestamp='1353003815' post='6070328']
No card can be activated from the deck, so that line is moot. (Red eyes darkness dragon is an inherent summon from the deck according to the ruling)
[/quote]

A: Red-Eyes Darkness Dragon... is from your hand. You must mean Black Metal Dragon. Another better example would be the Familiar-Possessed Charmers like [b][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Familiar-Possessed_-_Eria"]Eria[/url][/b]. They activate from the Deck and summon themselves without the card itself being in your hand. Obviously it's not the effect of the Charmer you sent because the Charmer's effects are quite listed. Also, I'm pretty fairly sure there's a card that negates activation of cards from the Deck just like there are cards like The End of Anubis which stop Graveyard.


B: There are such things are cards that FORCE ACTIVATE other cards and yes, there are ones that force the activation of a card in the Deck. [b][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Demise_of_the_Land"]Demise of the Land[/url][/b] is one. Now, this being an Equip, none of the cards relating to it by pulling it from the Deck would say activate in the first place since they would all say Equip (as 3 of them in the game do). If this was a Normal Magic or something, that would be a different story and we already have Diamond Guy for that. Cards that stay on the field are tricky but then we get to my other point...


C: ...You seem to like avoiding the fact that we are making cards, so someone (including the creator himself) could always make a card that activates in the Deck under the right conditions. I myself made several cards that activate Equip Cards from the Deck directly and make them equip to something. So a card like that would be able to do that this Equip except for that first line. It's not up to you to decide something like that is moot, especially if there's already cases that prove you're wrong on that in the real game, let alone someone making a card that justifies that line.

-------------------------


Unfortunately, I have little to say about the card itself other than the defense being told you're wrong to do something that you weren't wrong about. Not sure people would use it just because they would hate having to remember which Types were called that it is immune to.


That said, I'm not sure it's a good idea to allow this to make a monster immune to up to 5 Different kinds of monsters (3 by Type and 2 by Main-Type) and then still have it immune to Magic or Traps. You would just call whatever Type the Deck was running and whatever Cards your equipped monster needs to go through to make some damage. That said... it really wouldn't matter if you called even just ONE Type, you would still choose make it immune to the Deck you were fighting, so maybe 3 isn't even necessary or just overkill.

Why did you pick those arbitrary numbers? I could see 1 Type, 1 Main-Type (Attribute) and Magic or Trap, but why 3 and 2? You must have had a reason. Please don't take it to mean this is a bad idea (again, it's already similar to a card I made), I'm just questioning why the need to make it convoluted.

[DunnoMan]

A: Those are considered summons, they are not being activated. They do not start chains. To activate something means to start a chain with an effect.

B: Same thing, the activation of the field spell does not start a chain. It is being selected from the deck, and placed on the field. Regardless of what the outdated text says, the ruling says otherwise.
[url="http://7.hidemyass.com/ip-1/encoded/Oi8vd2ViLmFyY2hpdmUuby4uLj9maXJzdD1EJmFtcDtsYXN0PUVUaGVyZQ%3D%3D"]http://web.archive.o...t=D&last=E[/url]There are cards which facilitate the use of cards in the deck, but no cards which actually activate in the deck.

C: Sure they can, I can make a normal trap card to negate the activation of counter traps, too. But it wouldn't actually work in the real game, and that's what I'm pointing out. Konami has explained this in the form of tengu ruling. Reborn tengu's effect activates when he lives the field, and activates where he left the field to. If he is returned to the deck, his effect cannot activate as effects cannot activate in the deck.

I can understand the confusion between effect monsters which summon themselves, and actual effects activating in the deck. But there are no cards which stop cards from being activated in the deck, and if there were; It'd be useless as it's already impossible for cards to do that.

I should know, i specifically asked head of R&D Kevin Tewart if effects could activate in the deck. This was an attempt to tap into an unused facilitation scheme for my archetype, the FrameLords.
He instructed me that pretty much all the effects i wanted, could be done by activating when targeted by effects which would return them to the deck... but not actually activate in the deck. As that's currently impossible, they might change that mechanic later, but currently it's just not possible.There is however, a card in the tag force games which can activate in the deck. Alchemy something, but tag force isn't a representative of the actual game rules.It's an anime card, and I'm assuming that's why you're misunderstanding the mechanics of the game.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='DunnoMan' timestamp='1353023481' post='6070638']
*Text trunciated* [/quote]

You're making a crazy amount of assumptions, incorrect ones at that.


-- I never said they (the monsters) were effects, I was CORRECTING the fact you were talking about Darkness Dragon when you clearly meant Black Metal (a case you yourself brought up, [u]so why did you bring up In-Built Summons if you're talking about Effects[/u]) and I was correcting the fact you said nothing activates from the Deck. Now you're arguing [u][b]semantics,[/b][/u] instead of having a merited point to make; you're arguing word usage that you know very well is [u]used so colloquially[/u] in this game it's not even funny. You're arguing the usage of "activate" when someone refers using a Summoning Method are wrong when that wasn't even the point to the statement and adds nothing to your case, which was that nothing activates from the Deck at all.

Incidentally, what do you NORMALLY call "activating an in-Built Special Summon" if not "activating", is there an official term for that or at least one that someone would legally argue as more correct than the usage of another? If someone uses "activate" to refer to the triggering of a In-Built Summon during a Duel, are you going to call a Judge over and demand they be DQ'd? Put a match to that strawman. A card leaving the field and returning to the Deck won't activate IN the Deck, but there's plenty of cards that are in the deck that have actual effects that result in them being pulled out. Phoenix God of Nephthys can die in the Deck by effect destruction go to the Graveyard and resurrect next turn. A journey that still started in the Deck (even though it MECHANICALLY activated in the Graveyard, but no one is going to start a debate during a duel over the colloquialisms of it). Demise specifically says that it activates a Field Magic Card and you want to argue that the Field Magic doesn't go on the chain? Of course not, Demise is on the chain [b]FOR IT[/b]! Sort of the point to the card. [b][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Wulf,_Lightsworn_Beast"]Lightlord Beast - Wulf[/url][/b] activates its EFFECT (not in-built Summon) to summon itself from the Graveyard after being sent from the [b]Deck[/b]. The lesson is cards do activate due to influences on the Deck or the card while in the Deck, but [u]no one is arguing about some Monster that sits there in the Deck, waiting for some condition to happen and deals 1000 damage to the opponent from beyond reach and it just stays there[/u]. A card like that would at least have the courtesy to dump itself to the Graveyard as a cost and activate from there. And do I even want to mention [b]MOST OF THE GLADIATOR BEASTS[/b], which (as a [b]THEME[/b]) return themselves [u]to the Deck[/u] ([b]as a COST[/b]) to Special Summon other Gladiator Beast by effect. That on paper looks like a effect that should activate in the Deck, but they mechanically rule it as starting on the field and resolves statically while the card it in the Deck.


-- Yet, anyway, ok, so NOW, your case is that [u]nothing activates [b]MANUALLY[/b] at your permission from within the Deck [b]DIRECTLY[/b] of its own power that goes on to a Chain along with the specific usage of the terms and mechanics of "[b]activation[/b]"[/u]. Admittedly, that much more specific case to make and the only one you could make (if you do) that would actually be correct. You should be a lawyer for Apple, argue a few rounded rectangles here and there.

So yes, let's get it straight, your point isn't a claim of making a card that doesn't work in the game mechanics, your claim is that the semantics to achieve that the desired effect as explained isn't what you think it should be. Period.

Sorry if that's how your operate ([i]and before you complain about my making "assumptions" about what you're thinking, I'll remind you that you've already did that to others, including myself, several times in this thread[/i]), but when I read "Cannot be activated from the Deck", my first thought is that it prevent cards that force activation of a card that isn't even in your hand (a "cheat" type of move and the only way this would happen) from affecting it, which also means he had a reason for preventing it (likely another card) made or to be made (not something for us to decide). The card forcing the activation is the one actually on the chain activating, like a surrogate. This isn't even that uncommon, Bait Doll is as old as this sort of thing gets. "Surrogate activation" is probably the best way of describing this sort of thing. Even in the case of Vylon Sigma, it's doing the activation for the Equip Cards, so the Equip just goes straight to the Equipping. [b]A point I would have brought up myself about the wording to use[/b] on the card if he wanted to avoid that happening, but I instead get caught up in this mess.



-- And not everything in this game is mechanically perfect...

Just ask [b][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Metaion,_the_Timelord"]Jikaishin Metaion[/url][/b]... a card who has [b]THE EFFECT[/b] of returning to the Deck itself [b]WHILE [color=#ff0000]FACE-DOWN[/color][/b] on the field. [u]Effect[/u] that [u]activates[/u] and resolves [u]while face-down[/u]. Let that sink in. "Effect" and "face-down" for the entire 13 year of the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise were terms were mutually exclusive until this guy. Even the [b][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Majestic_Mech"]Lightning Gears[/url][/b] and the [b][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Core_Chimail"]Core Chimail[/url][/b] can be flipped face-down with Book of Moon to live for another turn if they are face-down through the End Phase. Metaion (in TCG) says screw that, I'm going to be special; I can promise you, that "even if face-down" part is not in the OCG text (it just says "return this card", so like before the assumption would have been to Book that thing... until the TCG version ruined that).

Yet still, it is all goes according to what the designer SAYS his card does even if it goes against the rather strained mechanics of this game. That's what a KSS actually is. And let's make something clear about Kevin Tewart and he definitely won't talk about regular folks, he was let go the first time for a reason. He likes to argue with his higher-ups and then we get the conflicts between what OCG does and TCG. The Priority Elimination (TCG being wrong and late to changing it), 0 ATK vs 0 ATK (TCG again being wrong and they did finally change that), and let's not forget the horror that was Xyz Materials being on the field. Like it or not, [u]the card creators have final say[/u] (remember that KDE's Card Team is like 3 or 4 people who barely get to make and insert 10 cards a set, some of which weren't made by KDE, versus being told what a OCG card does in before it hits TCG). Card creators have final say. PERIOD as long as it doesn't severely conflict and interrupt the mechanics and gameplay of the current game (this is why Twin-Headed Behemoth was changed after so many years even though many cards have it do its effect better).


-- So, let's finish this right now. Your argument has nothing to do with effects that activate in the Deck, the card isn't doing that anyway. Your argument is whether or not it should carry on with the first line intact. And the answer is simple instead of having to go through this whole song and dance. [b]"Do the words in question cause a conflict and thus interruption of the gameplay mechanics and with it a disruption of the game itself?"[/b] [u]If the answer is "yes", the line should be stricken removed utterly or altered drastically.[/u] If the answer is "no", then all we have is a card with [b]foresight[/b] text that prevents one from activating it with outside influences and any strange cards someone might come up with. Nothing more.

The answer is no. So there's no actual need to change it and the game isn't harmed by doing so nor does it gain a benefit from ridding it and i do not believe any of this would be the case in the future. Thus this entire thing as been a huge waste of time and energy countering points that don't actually have any barring in the quest for the answer and amounts to little more than ego-stroking and name-dropping.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

....tl:dr...well mainly because I do admit that I had made the mistake on Vylon's effect to Equip and not activate and already corrected that...and the fact that that argument is between you two mainly.

Anyways, I chose 3 Types, 2 Attributes and either Spell/Trap with the condition that the equipped monster can only attack those types and not set cards or direct cards so that it's basically a wall with life that you'll have to think about finding an out too. The monster equipped can't bring a form of OTK, but instead prevents you from being OTKed. So..why the numbers? I wanted it to also be versatile against multi-decks without being too versatile. 1 of the decks in mind was Gladiator Beasts. They tag out for a myriad of monster and I wanted to shut decks like that down, without shutting them down completely. So what would I call for them? Winged-Beasts (Bestiari/Gyzarus), Beast-Warrior (Laquari/Darius/Heraklinos), and then either Warrior (Against AliveGlads), or Aqua (If I'm just dueling against a Pure Build), then DARK (Because their outs could be Xyzs such as Black Corn or Maestroke), and (if I didn't choose Warrior) LIGHT (so I don't have to face things such as Papilo or Utopia), or (if I chose warriors already) FIRE (to shut down Zemaines and be safe from it's destruction). Last but not least, I would choose Spells. However, Gladiators still have the out with their Trap Cards if I do that, so a well placed D.Prison or Chariot to negate my monster's effect should I activate it foolishly, that protection is still off. I do realize the equip hits some decks harder, for example Chaos Dragons, Inzektors and such, but that's what it was intended to do, and why I even stated it in the Title that it could be splashed in nearly any deck as a counter to most if not all decks without being overpowered. How is this not overpowered? Because as much as the protection seems flexibly near-invincible, it still has weakpoints AND provides only a wall for the specified cards types. However, because I cannot attack sets, cannot attack directly and can only attack the said monsters, If I don't call a certain type (for example, Rock), I can find myself having trouble against a Daigusto Emeral or have trouble dealing with a well placed Gem Knight Pearl, one of which is run quite nicely as a beater and is easy to get, main or side irl. The card was trying to put the meta in place, and imo, I think it does that just fine with the 3, 2, and 1 protection/restriction effect.

[DunnoMan]

[quote]
Phoenix God of Nephthys can die in the Deck by effect destruction go to the Graveyard and resurrect next turn. A journey that still started in the Deck (even though it MECHANICALLY activated in the Graveyard, but no one is going to start a debate during a duel over the colloquialisms of it). Demise specifically says that it activates a Field Magic Card and you want to argue that the Field Magic doesn't go on the chain?
Of course not, Demise is on the chain [b]FOR IT[/b]! Sort of the point to the card. [/quote]

Stopped reading here.You're obviously still not understanding how the game works, Nepthys is nowhere even close to activating in the deck. It's effect started in the graveyard. That's when it activated, no effects were activated in the deck.

You're confusing effects which INVOLVE or facilitate the deck, with effects which activate in the deck .Also, if you'd read THE OFFICIAL RULING on demise of the land, you'd see that the field spell doesn't start a chain, and demise is not on the chain for it, it's on the chain for itself. The field spell is part of the resolution, the chain is still named "Demise of the land" If the field spell was on the chain, then it could be negated/destroyed, which it can't because it's in the deck.


Also, summons=/=activating effects which summon.
Summons don't start chains.
Ex. You could chain to wind-up shark's effect to special summon itself with maxx "c" but not to the summon of red eyes darkness metal dragon.
One is an inherent summon, and another is an effect which facilitates a summon.

Summons like Black Metal, and the charmers are just that. Inherent summons, like BLS but from the deck.
No effects are being activated when bringing them out from the deck, or in BLS's case, the hand.

An effect to summon, like say Wind-up Shark, tour guide, or t.g. warwolf however is an actually effect activating, and resolving. There's a big difference.

Come back when you learn your yugiohs. People may CALL it activating, like they used to call using priority on the effect of a freshly summoned monster, but both of those would be wrong. And so are you.

TL;DR You're arguing against official rulings, and the mechanics of the game as they've ALWAYS been.Go contact KoA's ruling email: [email protected] about effects in the deck. It won't be kevin, so it could take a while longer, but you'll eventually get the same result. Arguing with me will not change those facts.


Now, unless you come back with an OFFICIAL response from Konami themselves which differs from the one i got, or wish to apologize for your ignorance, don't bother replying. And if by some miracle you do get a response to debunk my own (Which isn't going to happen) then reply in a PM. We've taken up enough of this member's thread space.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

THAT'S ENOUGH!! You guys PM your discussion somewhere else! NOT ON THIS THREAD!

*collects* Thank you. The next one that wants to argue with someone else about something not related to this card (because you guys have gone from my card to game mechanics and such without any input and are growing offensive to each other) will deal with the mods. Come on guys. Etiquette! If you guys have issues with someone else, PM that person about it! Don't make it public here.

Anyways, comment on the card and it's fixes or gtfo. Seriously.