Daras, The Fallen Angel

[ForeverForgotten]

[center][img]http://i45.tinypic.com/30a9phd.jpg[/img][/center]
[center]y tributing this card both players must get rid of their current hand and pick up a whole new hand, any facedown Trap Cards or Spell Cards are destroyed.[/center]

[Zazubat]

Jesus, the effect sounds morbid when taken out of context. Let me fix it for you:
You can Tribute this face-up card; each player discards their entire (I don't know what you mean by "pick up a whole new hand", do you mean 5 new cards, or the same amount), then destroy all face-down Spell & Trap Cards.

Well, it's OP already, you simply need 1 card to destroy all your opponent's defences, plus your opponent can't do a thing about their hand. It has way too much ATK for a level 6 with such a powerful effect, it can be searched easily by Witch of the Black Forest. The image doesn't make much sense, how is that a beast? It's an angle, of some sort, that should be fairy. Plus WIND makes more sense then LIGHT for winged monsters, heck why make is beast-warrior and not winged beast? Well needs some work that's for sure.

[Galkin]

I will congratulate you in making a first card with an effect that is, at least, understandable to some extent. The best grammar would be:
[quote]You can tribute this card; both players discard all cards in their hand and draw 5 cards, then destroy all face-down Spell and Trap Cards[/quote]
I would recommend [url="http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/162252-commonly-used-ocg-phrases/"]this thread[/url] since you are new to the wording, although for certain unique effects that you might plan in the future, you will need to improvise or create some new wording or something, sometimes you might need to research some currently existing cards to figure out wordings, even if it is outdated.

Now as for the card itself:

The first initial problem is that it has 2700 ATK for 1 tribute. While tributing has indeed gone a long way down over the years, there is an unspoken rule that 1 tribute monsters may never surpass 2600 ATK unless they have drawbacks. Secondly, it has an effect that does exactly what [url="http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121006011360/yugioh/images/thumb/5/54/MorphingJar-LCYW-EN-UR-1E.png/300px-MorphingJar-LCYW-EN-UR-1E.png"]Morphing Jar[/url] does, which is hard on the banlist. On top that, it has a destruction effect that severely impacts the field.

This is why it's a bit tad too powerful, it gets rid of dangers and lets you compensate for all the overextending you have done, which is naturally bad design. The fact it can be Special Summoned (With all the generic revival we have) means that you can actually pull this effect multiple times in 1 turn quite easily, which can actually just create more mill decks on top of Empty Jar already existing. On another note, this card just screams abuse for Dark Worlds, which means I recommend the wording to say "send" instead of "discard" (You should learn the different terms too).

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='Galkin' timestamp='1353099763' post='6071302']
I will congratulate you in making a first card with an effect that is, at least, understandable to some extent. The best grammar would be:

I would recommend [url="http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/162252-commonly-used-ocg-phrases/"]this thread[/url] since you are new to the wording, although for certain unique effects that you might plan in the future, you will need to improvise or create some new wording or something, sometimes you might need to research some currently existing cards to figure out wordings, even if it is outdated.

Now as for the card itself:

The first initial problem is that it has 2700 ATK for 1 tribute. While tributing has indeed gone a long way down over the years, there is an unspoken rule that 1 tribute monsters may never surpass 2600 ATK unless they have drawbacks. Secondly, it has an effect that does exactly what [url="http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121006011360/yugioh/images/thumb/5/54/MorphingJar-LCYW-EN-UR-1E.png/300px-MorphingJar-LCYW-EN-UR-1E.png"]Morphing Jar[/url] does, which is hard on the banlist. On top that, it has a destruction effect that severely impacts the field.

This is why it's a bit tad too powerful, it gets rid of dangers and lets you compensate for all the overextending you have done, which is naturally bad design. The fact it can be Special Summoned (With all the generic revival we have) means that you can actually pull this effect multiple times in 1 turn quite easily, which can actually just create more mill decks on top of Empty Jar already existing. On another note, this card just screams abuse for Dark Worlds, which means I recommend the wording to say "send" instead of "discard" (You should learn the different terms too).
[/quote]

The card creator isn't the one who chose the word "discard" though. you guys did when you fixed it. If you thought Discard was too much and helped DW too much, why did you go there first instead of using "Send" instead and explain why you chose Send instead of discard. You literally re-wrote his card and then said it was overpowered based solely on your changes.

And btw-- Send stops DW, but does nothing to stop DRG (Fabled). Listing out a few options when helping his repair with reasons why.



So he's my suggestion: Getting Rid of the hand could be a multitude of thing as does the getting another hand. It could be a living [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Destruction"]Card Destruction[/url], or Card Destruction but changed to Send, but you could also banish both cards or return/shuffle all cards in both players' hands to the Deck (which would stop DW and Fabled in its tracks). After any of those, you would simply draw an equal number of cards back (if successful).

I guess it's about the creator explained what the actually point and theme of the card was because it looks random. Is he dragging the hands to hell with him?

[Galkin]

[quote]The card creator isn't the one who chose the word "discard" though. you guys did when you fixed it. If you thought Discard was too much and helped DW too much, why did you go there first instead of using "Send" instead and explain why you chose Send instead of discard. You literally re-wrote his card and then said it was overpowered based solely on your changes.[/quote]
I'm pretty sure the card creator would have said "discard" anyways, because a lot of newbies think "discard" and "send" are the exact same thing. I was merely translating the effect based on a wording that was obscure in meaning. Do you think the creator was going to say "send" and not "discard"? At the very least I explained precisely why discard would be bad wording.

Also, as far as I was concerned, Fables work on "discard" as well, not "send". Precisely another reason why getting Wind-up Looped was crippling to every deck it faced.

[Zazubat]

[quote name='Galkin' timestamp='1353166459' post='6071787']
I'm pretty sure the card creator would have said "discard" anyways, because a lot of newbies think "discard" and "send" are the exact same thing. I was merely translating the effect based on a wording that was obscure in meaning. Do you think the creator was going to say "send" and not "discard"? At the very least I explained precisely why discard would be bad wording.

Also, as far as I was concerned, Fables work on "discard" as well, not "send". Precisely another reason why getting Wind-up Looped was crippling to every deck it faced.
[/quote]It's discard on card destruction, wouldn't it be the same here?

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

Fableds can't do anything on "send."

This card [i]is[/i] a Morphing Jar, but the problem with Mophing Jar nowadays is that you can flip it up and down several times per turn with those Books, while this is only uses that once. As for the S/T effect, Spells and Traps are easily wiped off with MST/Night Beam/Heavy, and they usually are before one would Tribute Summon something like this. Still, it exists, and Heavy Storm is considered broke, but necessary to keep to have players think about what Traps to Set.

Going back to the first effect: It is helpful to both players for giving them more cards to work with, but the key word in that is [i]both[/i], rather than just you. Therefore, this has the same problem as Morphing Jar in the sense of using it outside of Empty Jar: your opponent benefits from this as well. Neither player really has 5+ cards in their hand after their first turn. The only use this would have is in Darkworlds, but they are more likely to run Card Destruction over this, and it doesn't work too well since the DW playstyle doesn't involve Card Destruction the Tribute Summoned Monster.

Personally, I feel mysteriously alright with it Tributing itself for these effects, but if everyone else is freaking out about its Heavy Storm effect, you should turn that into just blowing up 2 cards on the field. As for the ATK-Level ratio thingamabob, either drop it to the low 2000s or make it a 2-Tribute Monster. I would feel much safer if this couldn't be Special Summoned.
[quote name='Zaziuma' timestamp='1353099146' post='6071283']
it can be searched easily by Witch of the Black Forest.[/quote]
Oh no, it can be searched by a banned card!
[quote]The image doesn't make much sense, how is that a beast? It's an angle, of some sort, that should be fairy. Plus WIND makes more sense then LIGHT for winged monsters, heck why make is beast-warrior and not winged beast? Well needs some work that's for sure.
[/quote]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/archive/b/b1/20090524171853!Garvas-B06-JP-C.jpg[/img]

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='Galkin' timestamp='1353166459' post='6071787']
I'm pretty sure the card creator would have said "discard" anyways, because a lot of newbies think "discard" and "send" are the exact same thing. I was merely translating the effect based on a wording that was obscure in meaning. Do you think the creator was going to say "send" and not "discard"? At the very least I explained precisely why discard would be bad wording.

Also, as far as I was concerned, Fables work on "discard" as well, not "send". Precisely another reason why getting Wind-up Looped was crippling to every deck it faced.
[/quote]

Do you think it was better to tell him what he thinks or [b][u]help him learn[/u][/b] (especially for himself) and grow instead? I've seen plenty of so-called veterans of this site still doing the wrong things and almost no one is concerned with "helping" so much as correcting and feeling superior except me.


You should explain the differences and give him options to for himself, not just throw an answer that you decided based on "that's what I think he meant and I will literally assume he's stupid". Or as you said [i]"because of a lot newbies think discard and send are the same thing"[/i]. That's rather insulting and hardly constructive and you certainly didn't even explain it that far. It's just discard and his card is too much and I won't think of helping him before making him feel stupid and calling him a newbie.

Maybe he wants discard but will limit it, maybe he wants his effect intact and wants to know how to fix it and not break the card or maybe he doesn't even care, but you didn't even give him credit of being a intelligent human being first.



Really starting to hate being the oldest person here.



And another thing on the assumption train: Where did I say "discard" didn't work on Fabled? I said send stops DW but not Fabled.

EDIT: Let's be clear even though it's off-topic. The difference between DW and Fabled are that DW need to be discarded by effects and Fabled (that ask to be discarded) don't care how they are discarded (including for cost). Also, some Fabled only care about a card being sent from the hand to the Graveyard (cost, discarded, sent directly) and others only care about number of cards in hand. DW mostly only cares about the whole Discard by effect thing where Fabled attempt multiple other things involving the hand.

[Zazubat]

[quote name='A Background Character' timestamp='1353167442' post='6071795']
Fableds can't do anything on "send."

This card [i]is[/i] a Morphing Jar, but the problem with Mophing Jar nowadays is that you can flip it up and down several times per turn with those Books, while this is only uses that once. As for the S/T effect, Spells and Traps are easily wiped off with MST/Night Beam/Heavy, and they usually are before one would Tribute Summon something like this. Still, it exists, and Heavy Storm is considered broke, but necessary to keep to have players think about what Traps to Set.

Going back to the first effect: It is helpful to both players for giving them more cards to work with, but the key word in that is [i]both[/i], rather than just you. Therefore, this has the same problem as Morphing Jar in the sense of using it outside of Empty Jar: your opponent benefits from this as well. Neither player really has 5+ cards in their hand after their first turn. The only use this would have is in Darkworlds, but they are more likely to run Card Destruction over this, and it doesn't work too well since the DW playstyle doesn't involve Card Destruction the Tribute Summoned Monster.

Personally, I feel mysteriously alright with it Tributing itself for these effects, but if everyone else is freaking out about its Heavy Storm effect, you should turn that into just blowing up 2 cards on the field. As for the ATK-Level ratio thingamabob, either drop it to the low 2000s or make it a 2-Tribute Monster. I would feel much safer if this couldn't be Special Summoned.

Oh no, it can be searched by a banned card!

[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/archive/b/b1/20090524171853!Garvas-B06-JP-C.jpg[/img]
[/quote]excuses... still would make more sense since it's a freaking angle not some greek weird human/animal thing.

[Galkin]

*Shinobi: I never tried being superior to him, I was stating my opinion telling what was wrong, giving him helpful links, then (according to you) leaving him without any idea what to do (Which I did because I [b]trust[/b] his judgment and that he was skilled enough to make an adequate change to his liking; I don't want to tell him what to do, I tell him what is wrong and give him the freedom of choice). I never assumed he was stupid, I said he was a newbie (Which is a correct, non-hurtful, term. I in-face think he is quite capable of making good cards, as his card came off pretty decently). Newbies are not expected to know everything, we have all been there. I think you are mistaking the word "newbie" with the word "noob", which I assure you are 2 completely different terms. Newbie is in no way a negative term and I only recall making assumptions of what he though, but never insulting him.

Sorry, if I come off as mean or harsh.

On the topic of Fables, honest mistake, I meant to say send doesn't work, but you elaborated well that I see what you meant. Indeed fables aren't as affected by send as DW, but I have little to no experience on playing either Fables or DW, so I can't say much for or against what you said.