Into the Furnace 7/?

[Alpakha]

[spoiler=About] So ritual summon is tributing a monster to summon another one. I thought about it and it's like melting metal down to make another thing. So you melt metal in a furnace, furnace=furnus. So they had to be machines, then FIRE because of furnace. It was coincidental (not really) that these are FIRE and Gishki's are WATER. Also banishing kills Gishki, whereas this revolves around it. The rituals are named after chess pieces, but that was coincidental as the pictures I found reminded me of the chess pieces (I name the cards after finding picture). [/spoiler]

[spoiler=Spells][img]http://i45.tinypic.com/11kd2fr.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i46.tinypic.com/2zq4kyh.jpg[/img][/spoiler]

[spoiler=Monsters][img]http://i50.tinypic.com/x4n8gk.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i45.tinypic.com/1sz2nk.jpg[/img]
[spoiler=Lore]This card counts as a whole Tribute for the Ritual Summon of a FIRE Ritual Monster. If this card is banished, you can add 1 "Furnus" card from your Graveyard or Banished Pile to your hand (except "Furnus Retriever").[/spoiler]

[img]http://i49.tinypic.com/53obbq.jpg[/img]
[spoiler=Lore]If this card is banished, you can Special Summon this card. Face-up "Furnus" Monsters you control can't be targeted by card effect. If you control another face-up FIRE monster, you can Tribute this card to add 1 "Furnus" card from your Deck to your hand (it cannot be used this turn). Only 1 "Furnus Gardna" can be summoned per turn.[/spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler=Rituals]
[img]http://i49.tinypic.com/16bj23k.jpg[/img]
[spoiler=Lore]This card must first be summoned with a "Furnus" Ritual Spell card. If this card were to be destroyed by a card effect, you can return 2 of your banished FIRE monsters to your Deck instead. Once per turn, you can banish 1 monster from your hand to destroy 1 card on the field.[/spoiler]

[img]http://i45.tinypic.com/jgk03k.jpg[/img]
[spoiler=Lore]This card must first be summoned with a "Furnus" Ritual Spell card. If this card destroys a monster by battle, you can banish 1 FIRE monster from your Graveyard to draw 1 card.[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Cards Edited!

[Alpakha]

Bump

[VictorSempra]

Okay, I pointed this out to someone in Written, and here I go again.....

Everybody wants FIRE types. I don't understand it, but it's too much. Flamvells, Lavals, Haze Beasts, Flamestars......continuing to give FIRE more archetypes to fiddle with and feed these ones is in my bad, a horrible idea. Not to say your concept is bad, I LOVE the idea of Rituals and the like, and the fact you chose to base them around chess pieces. But why fire? QQ

[Alpakha]

Well thank you for that spam... I already explained why FIRE in the about spoiler. I didn't base them off of chess, only the rituals and that was a coincidence (also explained in about spoiler). If you have nothing useful to say then please get out. If the cards are bad then tell why, it's in the rules of RC forum. I'm willing to listen to your opinions as long as you have the reasons to back it up.

[R3mixKillah]

[quote name='Maxxion' timestamp='1354144187' post='6080485']
Okay, I pointed this out to someone in Written, and here I go again.....

Everybody wants FIRE types. I don't understand it, but it's too much. Flamvells, Lavals, Haze Beasts, Flamestars......continuing to give FIRE more archetypes to fiddle with and feed these ones is in my bad, a horrible idea. Not to say your concept is bad, I LOVE the idea of Rituals and the like, and the fact you chose to base them around chess pieces. But why fire? QQ
[/quote]

....thing is...EARTH, DARK, and LIGHT have waaayyyy more support than fires will ever get anytime soon. So saying that this is a bad archetype just because its FIRE attribute tells me that you dont know much about the current meta. Anyways your OCG seems a lil off on some cards but im not the type to fix them as long as i understand what your trying to say. Overall, i like this archetype its pretty simple and Rituals need more support anyways. i loved the way you toke the concept of Ritual summons, i've never really thought of that myself.

The archetype itself seems similar to gustos, only difference is that it recycles from the banished zone instead of the graveyard.

I feel the second ritual's first effect is unnecessary, cause you can destroy a monster, banish gardna (if its in your grave) and then draw 1 card which is bassically a +1, but meh thats my opinion.

Overall, i like the archetype hope to see more from you soon.

[VictorSempra]

[quote name='R3mixKillah' timestamp='1354147119' post='6080506']
....thing is...EARTH, DARK, and LIGHT have waaayyyy more support than fires will ever get anytime soon. So saying that this is a bad archetype just because its FIRE attribute tells me that you dont know much about the current meta. Anyways your OCG seems a lil off on some cards but im not the type to fix them as long as i understand what your trying to say. Overall, i like this archetype its pretty simple and Rituals need more support anyways. i loved the way you toke the concept of Ritual summons, i've never really thought of that myself.

The archetype itself seems similar to gustos, only difference is that it recycles from the banished zone instead of the graveyard.

I feel the second ritual's first effect is unnecessary, cause you can destroy a monster, banish gardna (if its in your grave) and then draw 1 card which is bassically a +1, but meh thats my opinion.

Overall, i like the archetype hope to see more from you soon.
[/quote]Edit: I take back what I originally said here, not worth my time.

[Alpakha]

[quote name='Maxxion' timestamp='1354147224' post='6080508']
Edit: I take back what I originally said here, not worth my time.
[/quote]

Eh too late, already reported as spam.


Anyway, thx for the comment Killah. Which cards specifically have OCG problems so I can fix them.

[VictorSempra]

[quote name='AznKvn' timestamp='1354147531' post='6080511']
Eh too late, already reported as spam.


Anyway, thx for the comment Killah. Which cards specifically have OCG problems so I can fix them.
[/quote]Great, thanks.

[Organized Chaos]

I will review the cards as it is an interesting concept, one that has been done before but you have definitely given a great twist to.

Furnus Smelting- To be honest, it's a great card. The first Ritual Spell to include banishing as a way to Summon Rituals through banished monsters and the equal level thing balances it. Not much really else to say.

Purification of the Furnus- Considering this card pretty much fuels fuels Retriever and Smelting, I think an additional cost or drawback would do quite nicely. e.g You can't Normal Summon or Set the turn you activate this card. This would balance the card because it means you can't just Summon Phaze, add this, banish Phaze, add Smelting or Rook/Knight and begin shenanigans. It also means its more of a surprise when you actiavte it. That would be the only drawback I would give it as everything else about it is great.

Furnus Phaze: This is probably the biggest problem I have with this Set. Instant +1s that can pretty much multiply into additional advantage seems crazy. I would definitely change the first effect so it banishes a "Furnus" monster from your Deck. You could even add in that if the banished monster was a Ritual monster, you can add that monster to your hand during the End Phase. This would allow it to combo with Retriever and Gardna while still being able to add Rituals. The 2nd effect is also a bit nutz. Maybe change it to 1 face-down card. Or add in a discard effect. Your call. Just please change it for the sake of this set.

Furnus Retriever: As far as instant retrievers go, this card is a bit nutz. The 1st effect is great and works really well with the archtype. It's just the 2nd effect is kind of nutz. Maybe change it to simply "Furnus" non-Ritual monsters or "Furnus" Ritual Spells. Besides that, a great card.

Furnus Gardna: This card I like. It's a more balanced version of Phaze that can Summon itself on banishment. However, it still remains a bit broken. Maybe give it an effect that it can't be used as Ritual material during the turn it is Summoned with this effect. This would still allow Xyz shenanigans and would encourage waiting to use it as instant fodder for Rituals. The non-targeting effect is also a bit ballistic. Maybe change it to selecting 1 monster you control when this card is Summoned. The selected card cannot be targeted by card effects. The last effect is great.

Furnus Rook: I liek it but I would reduce it's ATK to 2500. Simply so your Opponent can kill it without effects. Or I would change it's protection effect to once-per turn. The 2nd effect could also be changed so you return banished monsters to your graveyard to banish 1 card on the field. I simply think it might cause lots of abuse as it is. Besides that, great card.

Furnus Knight: The only problem I have with this card is the cost for attacking directly. Maybe you could make it that it can't attack directly the turn after. A 2900 direct attacker that attacks directly every turn would not be favourable, despite the costs you've put in. Besides that, I have no problems with this card.

All in all, a great set. I personally think some of the cards are a bit nutz but I enjoy the thought you've put into them. I love the Ritual Monsters and the actual Ritual Spell, really creative to be honest. The Effect monsters are OP'ed but they can be fixed. Well done on a great set and I hope to see more

[Alpakha]

Awesome, yeah I did go a bit overboard. I'll post up the edited ones when done. Thanks for the help.

[Alpakha]

Cards edited.

[Alpakha]

Bump

[Shinobi Phoenix]

Furnus Smelting:

Returning Banishing monster isn't a Tribute (because Release/Tribute means [u]to be sent to the Graveyard as a sacrifice[/u]) and you shouldn't be referring to it as such. "Standard" Ritual Magic in of itself is special for Releasing monsters from your hand anyway, but this is an irregular Ritual Magic Card just like Advanced Ritual Art and Gishki Photomirror, nothing more. Doesn't need some fancy wording to try to make it more "Ritual".

This wording would be fine:

[i]"This card can be used to Ritual Summon any "Furnus" Ritual Monster. You must also return a number of your banished FIRE monsters to your Deck with a total Level equal to the Ritual Monster being Ritual Summoned."[/i]


There, easy and it's far more concise wording.


----------------------


Purification by Furnus:

Needs a semi-colon between "...control" and "Destroy"

Also, is the adding of the Furnus Ritual directly tied into whether or not you destroy the card? if it is, you need to add "If you do" before that search and add effect. If not (as in you don't have to successfully destroy the card, like if it was made immune that turn), then change nothing.


------------------------

Furnus Rook:

"If this card [u][b]would[/b][/u] to be destroyed by a card effect, you can return 2 of your banished FIRE monsters to your Deck instead."

Also, "Once per turn[u]:[/u] You can banish 1 monster from your hand[u];[/u] Destroy 1 card on the field."

[Alpakha]

[quote name='Shinobi Phoenix' timestamp='1354292096' post='6081620']

This wording would be fine:

[i]"This card can be used to Ritual Summon any "Furnus" Ritual Monster. You must also return a number of your banished FIRE monsters to your Deck with a total Level equal to the Ritual Monster being Ritual Summoned."[/i]
[/quote]

No it wouldn't be fine because then that would be the only way to use that card. Smelting can ritual summon the traditional way, or use the irregular way. Whether or not the returning is tributing doesn't really matter.

[quote name='Shinobi Phoenix' timestamp='1354292096' post='6081620']
Furnus Smelting:

Also, is the adding of the Furnus Ritual directly tied into whether or not you destroy the card?
[/quote]

Yes, there's a 'Then' before the searching effect.




All you gave me were OCG fixes. Tell about the cards; Idk whether or not the OCG is perfect. Also, your OCG sounds outdated. I appreciate the time you put into it, but I want review about the card not the OCG.



PS: You're not allowed to have [u]only[/u] OCG/Grammar correction in your post.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='AznKvn' timestamp='1354294914' post='6081653']
No it wouldn't be fine because then that would be the only way to use that card. Smelting can ritual summon the traditional way, or use the irregular way. Whether or not the returning is tributing doesn't really matter.



Yes, there's a 'Then' before the searching effect.




All you gave me were OCG fixes. Tell about the cards; Idk whether or not the OCG is perfect. Also, your OCG sounds outdated. I appreciate the time you put into it, but I want review about the card not the OCG.



PS: You're not allowed to have [u]only[/u] OCG/Grammar correction in your post.
[/quote]

Outdated? You intended to have it do both? Only OCG Fixes? Ok, let's go through this...

[spoiler=Point A:]
How can one review your card if your card doesn't convey what you think it does? Are we mind-reader who see your mistakes and write a review based on what you INTENDED? Your teachers must LOVE you in English Class. I know plenty of students who would absolutely LOVE for their college professors to grade their 10-20 page papers based [u]THE UNSPOKEN INTENTIONS[/u] of the student. "Sorry, Professor, I wanted my 15 page paper to be about Racial and Gender Self-loathing in Contemporary America but I turned in an 8-page paper about Chris Brown and Rihanna and why they should be killed on sight. You'll grade me on what I say I was writing about and not what I actually turned in, right?"

[b]Or on topic, I guess when card spoilers start showing up before a Set Release on OCG sites and translators put out effects for them, we should review them right then and there without all the correct information on it? [u]That's admittedly happens a lot... [/u]except then we get more info and the effect turns out not to work as people thought and all those reviews and opinions go out the window...[/b]

How about we just agree that one shouldn't review anything [u]critically[/u] based on unfinished work if we're expecting fair, accurate, and (most importantly) [u][b]objectively critical[/b][/u] opinion? You aren't finished with these, right? I hope not.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Point B:]
You say you want Smelting to do both and you want me to review it based on what you intended it to do, not what you actually posted for everyone to see? Well, first and foremost, that's not [u][b]AT ALL[/b][/u] the effect you gave it based on how you wrote it in the slightest. Did you read other Ritual cards beforehand? They all give specific instructions on what is needed to Ritual out the Monster (regular or irregular). If you want your card to do TWO versions of Ritual Summoning, it only list instructions for ONE (the irregular). It's like you didn't even read your own work before you posted it. You want it to do two versions, write out two sets of instructions. One Regular and one irregular. And FYI: Knowing the mechanics of the game and "what counts as what" and "what it mechanically achieves what" is kind of important for that whole [u][b]MAKING CARDS[/b][/u] thing. So yeah, it's quite relevant to know why Returning Banished monsters isn't the same as Releasing them, especially if you now are stating it's supposed to be two sets of instructions.

In fact, just give me ONE solid example in the real game of a Ritual card that:
A: Does not properly list its instructions.
B: List two different instructions for RItual Summon (thus two different effects to achieve a Ritual Summon).
C: Has two Ritual Summoning effects but only list the instructions for ONE of them.

Here's Konami's own Database: [url="http://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action"]http://www.db.yugioh...d_search.action[/url]

Just click Ritual Magic and read... or I can answer for you. The answer is [u]zero[/u] on all 3 counts, but that's what you presented with Smelting and then get mad at me for apparently not knowing what you intended when I attempted to fix it. Just putting the words [i]"This card can be used to Ritual Summon any "Furnus" Ritual Monster." [/i]are [u][b]NOT[/b][/u] Summoning instructions, you need to include the regular instructions as well as your irregular ones. Incidentally, the only difference now between what I wrote and what you intent for the card is the addition of the word "OR" (usually in bold capital letters) and the second set of instructions as an alternate:

[i]"This card can be used to Ritual Summon any "Furnus" Ritual Monster. You must also Tribute monsters from the field or your hand whose total Levels equal the Level of Ritual Monster being Ritual Summoned OR, instead, return a number of your banished FIRE monsters to your Deck with a total Level equal to the Ritual Monster being Ritual Summoned."[/i]

There, concise, includes your clause of two sets of summoning instructions, and even kept them in the same line (even though it would have been better as TWO separate effect lines). You insulted me and I still helped you. I'm such a nice old man.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Point C:]
Purification... You seem to not grasp this fact that your wording has to convey what you intend or it doesn't happen. Just the word "Then" doesn't tie it completely to the previous effect. Compare Magical Dimension with Starlight Road. I even explained in my post that the words "[u]If you do[/u], and then" ties it directly with whether or not you successfully achieved the effect as intended, not just if the effect went off without being negated. As in actually destroying the card, not just attempting to destroy it (which some cards will still go off with their second effects just on the intent.). So if a card is still not destroyed (being immune or saves itself like with your own monster you made in this set), some cards still trigger their secondary effects anyway and some don't. "Then...", "If you do..." and "and..." all cause three separate situations. Sorry this stupid game is that complicated, but it is. You need to understand that or not take it so seriously if you don't actually care.

Regardless, the way Purification is currently worded, it doesn't care if the card is actually destroyed, just that the destruction effect wasn't negated (for example: using Purification on a Horus Lv6 will still let you search after, but it wouldn't if you had to destroy it, which is what "If you do" means, which is exactly what I asked and [u]you gave me a very [b]rude[/b] response[/u] instead).[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Point D - Requested Reviews:]
As it's been pointed out, most people will only comment on a card is it's great, broken or needs fixing. If it's middle-ground they will read and pass it over without stating anything. [b]That's NOT a bad thing.[/b] However, making people say something about it certainly is a bad thing. Anyway, fine, you want a review on all the cards (whether I was going to review all of them or not this early) based on what you have written and thus is presumed as your intentions? Cool, let's go.

[quote]Before anything else, it's hard to give an accurate review without playtesting, so all of this is hypothetical anyway.

Furnus Smelting:
-- Standard fare Ritual Magic, more fitting with the Gisehki that use old style Ritual effects than the 5D's Rituals that have alternate effects for banishing them from the Graveyard. That said, the alternate Summon cost is obviously used for recycling your banished monsters and in most cases will be the cost you pay more often since your banished monsters will have more varied Levels for you to summon out your Rituals (since the Levels have to be EQUAL). It is still however slow in both cases because of the Equal-Level requirement and yet might be too much in conjunction with your Ritual Monster if you were to remove that restriction. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Really should playtest it to decide that. Otherwise, nothing special to write home about.

Purification by Furnus:
-- Again, pretty standard. Pay your cost which is designed to be used to help fuel your Ritual Magic and the effects of the other Furnus cards, searches out the very Furnus Ritual Magic card we speak of, which might be a little too easy except that you can't attack if you use the card.

Phaze:
-- A beatstick that fuels the Deck by searching out the themed cards or for removal if you used for the other part of the theme. Doesn't seem like too much. Your opponent might be relucant to use a Dimension Prison it or they might prefer to make you waste your resources. Can't currently anything bad about it, but it's not great either. That's a good thing to be middle-ground. Still better if it could be play tested.

Retriever:
-- A Ritual Raven with beat power and card returning? Might be too much, at least with the Ritual Raven part since that is to cheat out your big guns.

Gardna:
-- The last line of the card that restricts the summoning is the ONLY saving grace of the card. It's the only thing that balances out what would otherwise be FAR too much. Resurrection, protection and searching and high DEF on a Level 4 monster? If anything I would have stripped the protection effect and just kept the rest (since you seem to be going on a theme of constantly searching Furnus cards already). Again, playtesting would have shown that.

Rook:
-- Lower the ATK, alter the Level (since you made the Levels of your other Furnus TOO compatible for Summon this guy and thus there no challenge) and/or increase its protection effect to 3. Since you already have an effect that has a cost that FUELS its own protection, surely you can see a problem with that? It's already too high to be beaten in battle regularly and then it fuels its own protection against destruction WHILE also destroying and fuels other cards in the set? Rook is a far better card than Knight and quite a bit easy to get out and maintain.

Knight:
-- Fuels Rook, fuels other Furnus cards you will likely make, fuels the Ritual Magic. I probably have more of a problem with that than anything else about the card. Just make it once per turn and it should be fine.[/quote]


The theme itself isn't anything I haven't seen before or even something I haven't done. I myself also have a Fire Set involved in Banishing cards (and at least it's different from what I've seen) and I've made a Ritual theme that I work on as ideas come to me. I like seeing a Fire Ritual theme though. Really I appreciate seeing ANY Ritual theme at all. It's just a shame I have to put this much more focus on understanding the intention of the creator than enjoying the cards themselves and that's a big sour point of all of this. I guess I'll just refrain from helping/ reviewing/advising you in the future if this much trouble is involved.[/spoiler]


Last thing: If by "outdated" you're referring to my usage of OCG terms (because I am a OCG player and thus understand all terms and grammar used in OCG and TCG), you might want to do your research. Find out what Japan currently uses (Magic, Release, Advance Summon, etc.) and tell me if it's "outdated" or not. Actually don't bother, just learn it for yourself because there's just as many OCG English-speaking players out there as there are TCG ones and it only helps you to know all information available.

[Alpakha]

I'm sorry if I sounded rude, I tend to exaggerate. Thank you for the review, I honestly appreciate it. I'll post cards when edited. If I was rude in anyways at all, I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to be.