Jord200 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Evigishki_Mind_Augus Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. Must first be Ritual Summoned. You can Ritual Summon this card with any "Gishki" Ritual Spell Card. When this card is Ritual Summoned: Target up to 5 cards in anyGraveyard(s); shuffle those targets to the Deck. Disc this along with the impact of Gishki overall. I won't deny that Gishki should be hit in someway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 If you ban the ritual spell, they can't do much. That seems like the most appropriate hit to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord200 Posted February 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 If you ban the ritual spell, they can't do much. That seems like the most appropriate hit to me. I hate to admit it, but yeah. That seems to be the best choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Not this shit again... I've played that FTK and yes, I agree that it's extremely consistant and it probably deserves to stop existing. However, a single Limit on Mind Augus would completely stop the combo, and wouldn't hurt non-FTK Gishki decks that much. If you ban the ritual spell, they can't do much. If you ban the ritual spell, they can't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 If you ban the Ritual Spell, the entire archetype dies, because all the other Gishki Ritual Spells are horrendous in comparison, and Gishki aren't top tier, they just have a problematic loop. If the problem is Augus, kill Augus, or whatever enables the infinite loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 If they can only function off of one broken card, then they don't deserve to exist. Remember that they also have a loop with hieratics due to the ritual spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Not this shit again... I've played that FTK and yes, I agree that it's extremely consistant and it probably deserves to stop existing. However, a single Limit on Mind Augus would completely stop the combo, and wouldn't hurt non-FTK Gishki decks that much. If you ban the ritual spell, they can't do anything. If you ban the Ritual Spell, the entire archetype dies, because all the other Gishki Ritual Spells are horrendous in comparison, and Gishki aren't top tier, they just have a problematic loop. If the problem is Augus, kill Augus, or whatever enables the infinite loop. Now let me tell you why this is wrong. Gishki, by nature, are problematic. Only 2 of their bosses are even in the vicinity of well designed. Those same 2 are the only 2 that aren't FTK/OTK oriented. But why ARE those cards FTK and OTK Oriented? Because Aquamirror is a card that creates loops and abuses all of the existing Gishkis to no end. It's the problem card, nothing else. I mean, hell, DMG even had a Type Zero Magic Crusher OTK with Gishkis, because of an otherwise fine card existing in the anime. As time goes on, Gishkis will just become more and more problematic and anti-interaction. They promote unhealthy gamestates with Aquamirror because of the fact that it enables loops that have no right to existing. Playing the non-FTK/OTK Variants is in no way an excuse, because the fact that Levianima and Soul Ogre are the only ones you can defend doesn't change. I doubt they will hit Aquamirror, but you can't say Gishkis deserve mirror when 4/6 bosses are awful for the game, but are only so because they can loop thanks to Aquamirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I'll concede that Aquamirror is a problem because of the sheer searchability the Gishkis have with Vision, Shadow, Salvage, etc. I just would hate to see a Ritual-based archetype die because of all the loops. Hieratics were problematic from the start, and some of the enablers are bad design anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I'll concede that Aquamirror is a problem because of the sheer searchability the Gishkis have with Vision, Shadow, Salvage, etc. I just would hate to see a Ritual-based archetype die because of all the loops. Hieratics were problematic from the start, and some of the enablers are bad design anyway. What do you think enables all the loops in the first place? And Hieratics as a whole are in no way problematic. Brionac was problematic because of loops, FTKs, and OTKs. Aquamirror is the same. It promotes looping, FTKing, and OTKing. Difference being that these loops CONSTANTLY exist and can have an impact. It's nothing so inconsistent as Brionac, or Gustkraken wouldn't be at 1 and Mind Augus wouldn't be consistently FTKing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I don't think anybody would be upset if Gishkis completely died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I don't think anybody would be upset if Gishkis completely died. I'm hurt by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I'm hurt by this. I second this feeling. Gishkis are a really awesome archtype. It isn't their fault that they happen to be an archtype that revolves completely around bringing out Ritual Monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Admittedly, though, Gishkis wouldn't have been such a spam archetype if, say, the Mirror had the "Only activate this card once per turn" clause that many of the Spellbooks/Fire Formations have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 [quote name="Tentalus Therapist" post="6139113" timestamp="1360282830"]I second this feeling. Gishkis are a really awesome archtype. It isn't their fault that they happen to be an archtype that revolves completely around bringing out Ritual Monsters.[/quote] It's not even that they ritual summon that's the problem: I'm all for bringing back outdated mechanics. The problem is that the execution of the premise was shit (see inzektors). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Admittedly, though, Gishkis wouldn't have been such a spam archetype if, say, the Mirror had the "Only activate this card once per turn" clause that many of the Spellbooks/Fire Formations have. I'd say "Each effect of "Gishki Aquamirror" can only be activated once per turn", or w/e correct text is. My problem with it is simply that it promotes too many game damaging decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 As much as I <3 gishkies, I'm agreeing with Black on this one. The role Aquamirror plays is just too badly designed in itself. Hieratics, Lightsworns, and the way the Gishki Ritual monsters are designed doesn't help either. Even the "non-OTK" enablers still serve as fuel for Trade-In, Rank 8s, field clearance, beating, while the 6s just say hello to Hieratics for massive spam. And at the core? Aquamirror. I'm sorry, but if it's not to 1, it's gotta go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 In the same idea, Gem-Knight Fusion is kind of ridiculous in the sense that you can activate it infinite times per turn. If it was once-per-turn, it wouldn't create silly OTK's (unless you had all 3 of them) and would be a better, more controlled deck. But obviously Gem-Knights don't deserve to be hit in the scope of everything..... lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 In the same idea, Gem-Knight Fusion is kind of ridiculous in the sense that you can activate it infinite times per turn. If it was once-per-turn, it wouldn't create silly OTK's (unless you had all 3 of them) and would be a better, more controlled deck. But obviously Gem-Knights don't deserve to be hit in the scope of everything..... lmao. Exactly. Gem-Knight Fusion is slightly better design in the sense that it uses up advantage without infinitely preserving it in addition to restocking itself, and uses up resources to do so. It has a different kind of loop that isn't AS game damaging, by nature. But it should also be once per turn per eff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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