groniack Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 As you already know , it is difficult to make a card that allows you to draw and make it balanced while still usable. Have that in mind so please try helping balancing this card (if it needs any restrictions or this stuff) Here is the card.[spoiler=lore]When this card is sent from your hand to the Graveyard: Draw 1 card. You can only activate the effect of "Dread Draw" once per turn.[/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Awful design. There are plenty of ways to dump this, all of which are searchable quite easily. It encourages turbo-ing through the deck whilst completely disregarding P2P interaction coupled with a PoG-esque effect. In short, the card exists solely for the purpose of making our game even more flawed. Blegh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groniack Posted February 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Well I thought it wsn't a good design ! lol could you help me fix that or is it that bad that can't be fixed lol Well what about if I make it draw 1 card ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingdom Xathers Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Adding on to what Sora said, I feel that it could be a bit more balanced by having it only trigger when discarded by an opponent's card effect. Otherwise, as it stands right now, it's very abusable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 [quote name="groniack" post="6148340" timestamp="1361486044"]Well I thought it wsn't a good design ! lol could you help me fix that or is it that bad that can't be fixed lol Well what about if I make it draw 1 card ?[/quote] That'd make it better, but still pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groniack Posted February 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 ok I will be changing that right away ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 How is this for a "fix"? "When this card is sent from your hand to the Graveyard by an effect that sends your entire hand to the Graveyard; Draw 2 cards. You can only activate the effect of "Dread Draw" once per turn." That throws quite a bit more limitation on what would actually trigger it, thus only certain cards would interact with it and thus only cards you have honestly INTENDED to be in the deck (versus just splashing this in and it works). Also, that would miss timing a lot... since the last thing to happen with a hand-destruction effect is usually NOT going to be the "sending" itself. Yes, I mean that on purpose for balance, but changing "When..." to "If..." would make it more usable. ------------------------ I don't agree with the "opponent's effect" idea because then you might as well have made toilet paper for as good as it will do you. You wouldn't even see it activate in a casual match. Making something unusable is not balance. ----------------------- Being afraid of draw cards means we might as well NEVER have them if people will just always act like this... given they themselves are the ones trying to figure out how to abuse them rather than figure out other tactics. Basically, it's a coffee-addict getting mad at you for making different new flavors because "he can't control himself" so you shouldn't make more coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groniack Posted February 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Well it is an interesting concept !! If the other cardmakers don't like the change i have made maybe I will change it to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Well it is an interesting concept !! If the other cardmakers don't like the change i have made maybe I will change it to this So... basically you'll have half the people hate it for being weak (draw 1 card makes it worthless) and half the people hate you made a draw card at all. I think to be WORTH IT it has to give you at least 2, just do a balancing act after that. Otherwise, it's not worth even putting in the deck for a once per turn-one draw thing anyway. I for one was fine at the two-draw and already gave a conceptual suggestion so you could keep most of your original card intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleaknight Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 No more cards like this (free draws) should be created. Ever. This is a game meant for interaction, not lone play. Where's the fun in watching your opponent play cards nonstop while you just sit there? Any card that promotes this playstyle is awful design. Anyway, activation conditions are denoted with a ":", not a ";", so you should use "blablabla: Draw 2 cards." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groniack Posted February 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 ok thanks for the wording correction. I really appreciate it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 You could always change it to the most hatred words in all of YGO (depending on who you ask). "Both players draw 2 cards." Sorry, that's only the second most hated, the most hated would be "opponent draws (X) cards". Still, that will "fix" most any draw cards and by fix, I mean make people hate it and not want to use it because the idea of your opponent drawing is mortal sin to some players. Still, that's balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groniack Posted February 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 lol It would be hillarious especially the second effect you said !! well the first 1 sounds good but on the verge of oped I don't know. Well guys I don't think I will ever make a card that allows drawing again. I remembered now a duel I had with a gishki dueler who finished mine and his deck in his very first turn !! And he won because the Gishki spell returns to the deck :( I really don't wnt to support something like that :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Also, that would miss timing a lot... since the last thing to happen with a hand-destruction effect is usually NOT going to be the "sending" itself. Yes, I mean that on purpose for balance, but changing "When..." to "If..." would make it more usable. Mandatory effects do not miss timing. His effect is mandatory. Thus it does not miss timing. As for my 2 cents, making plus cards in yugioh is like eating bad chicken. It doesn't work well and is almost always either broken, or so bad people don't use it due to the restrictions. I honestly see no way to balance this kind of thing. Allowing cards like DWD and Hand Destruction to lose their -1 status is Exodia and Final Countdown, thus allowing them to turbo through the deck faster is never going to be good. The only way to make a + balanced is by restricting it to a certain archtype where +'ing won't break it, otherwise it's just too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groniack Posted February 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Well you can only activate the card only once per turn so I don't think it will be that abusable. But i am not an expert you might know something more :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 [quote name="groniack" post="6148393" timestamp="1361489413"]Well you can only activate the card only once per turn so I don't think it will be that abusable. But i am not an expert you might know something more :)[/quote] http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_%22Dark_World%22_cards abuses this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi Phoenix Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Mandatory effects do not miss timing. His effect is mandatory. Thus it does not miss timing. I was referring to my suggested version of his card. However, instead of explaining what "mandatory" means (because definition of the word isn't necessary) explain how this effect is mandatory? Since when are Magic/Traps given mandatory status under a conditional trigger. Monster effects yes, but please give an example of a Magic/Trap (especially Normal Magic like this) that activates involuntarily whether you want it to or not, then we'll compare text. For that matter, how did you decide that someone else's effect was mandatory? I think that's rather presumptuous, and we're better off asking the creator if he INTENDED it to be mandatory and if not, helping him word it to be understood that it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I don't understand why anyone is going to say that as-is, it's not balanced. It's brutally terrible. There's no point in running it at all with its current effect. The fact that in order to use it you have to run Dark World Dealings or something to the effect of discarding, like Lightning Vortex, etc., means it's highly situational and is a +0 at best. There's no need to run it when it doesn't offer you any real advantage and the 'speed' or 'consistency' it offers the Deck only makes up for that which is sacrificed by running cards like Vortex/Dealings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Well you can only activate the card only once per turn so I don't think it will be that abusable. But i am not an expert you might know something more :) You can only activate Glow-Up Bulb once per duel and it was still abusable. It gives you extra turbo, and that 1 card can easily make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 You can only activate Glow-Up Bulb once per duel and it was still abusable. It gives you extra turbo, and that 1 card can easily make a difference. I get where you're coming from in that it's not exactly good design, but it's not worth running at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 [quote name="Zero*" post="6148417" timestamp="1361490697"]I get where you're coming from in that it's not exactly good design, but it's not worth running at all.[/quote] That's how bad design is: it's either broken or sucks. Do you have any suggestions or are you just going to keep calling us bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 That's how bad design is: it's either broken or sucks. Do you have any suggestions or are you just going to keep calling us bad? I didn't call anyone bad. I just said that people are sitting here crapping on the dude's card when it's not even that 'broken' as people are making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 It's really not broken, considering I, in my free time, play a game that lets you draw until you have 5 cards in your hand. There's not really a lot of ways to make it exploitable, except for stuff that discards, and even then, you want to put better stuff in the Graveyard, like monstys, so that you have proper setup afterwards. Drawing 1 might help you, or it won't help you at all. Beyond the Dark Worlds threat, which all should be banned anyway, this card doesn't really serve a purpose. Just like Kuriboh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 [quote name="Devil's Advocate" post="6148435" timestamp="1361491907"]It's really not broken, considering I, in my free time, play a game that lets you draw until you have 5 cards in your hand. There's not really a lot of ways to make it exploitable, except for stuff that discards, and even then, you want to put better stuff in the Graveyard, like monstys, so that you have proper setup afterwards. Drawing 1 might help you, or it won't help you at all. Beyond the Dark Worlds threat, which all should be banned anyway, this card doesn't really serve a purpose. Just like Kuriboh.[/quote] It used to allow you to draw 2 cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleaknight Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 To me, no more generic free-draw cards should be made, only cards that require actual interaction and skill, like Maxx "C". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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