Effect Veiler

[Aix]

Seeing this a lot more on DN now, though I suppose it is your only way to stop that first turn LADD and it can be used to stop a lot of the often-used cards.

[Wildflame]

This on Big Eye or Drago-Sack can be game changing. Dunno why people are preferring Fiendish over this so much this format.

[Aerion Brightflame]

This on Big Eye or Drago-Sack can be game changing. Dunno why people are preferring Fiendish over this so much this format.

 

Fiendish locks down attacks.

 

It's a format where bosses are just as likely to get run over as they are to get hurt by monster effects. And for some decks, Chain saves games in that case.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

fiendish has all the timing veiler has and then some, stops attacks, can be ran in decks that main macro or mind drain, doesnt choke the grave with monsters, and is generally just a better card. it always has been but it took until this format for its strengths to become more relevant.

[STVB]

no, fuck this card

[Lonk]

This card at least has a good niche in Madolches.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="clairedestroyer" post="6166724" timestamp="1363992815"]fiendish has all the timing veiler has and then some, stops attacks, can be ran in decks that main macro or mind drain, doesnt choke the grave with monsters, and is generally just a better card. it always has been but it took until this format for its strengths to become more relevant.[/quote] How exactly is putting LIGHT level 1 tuner monsters in your grave "choking" it in any way? >avarice >Reborn -> synchro >Chaos bosses >Junk synchron/debris dragon

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

How exactly is putting LIGHT level 1 tuner monsters in your grave "choking" it in any way? >avarice >Reborn -> synchro >Chaos bosses >Junk synchron/debris dragon

 

counterpoints:

 

macro/d fissure, eatos etc etc.

 

you cant state that putting a monster in grave isnt BAD for some decks because its GOOD in others. also, the only noteworthy deck that runs avarice is merlanteans, and they dont run veiler. also also, plenty of decks dont use it as a tuner ever, so the synchro bit is meaningless and the reborn bit becomes much less useful. same with debris.

 

face it, the only time veiler is better is the first turn, and thats only relevant against ftks or first turn LaDD, which you should be able to play around anyways.

[King of Games]

Fiendish chain cant double as a level 1 Tuner. 

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

Fiendish chain cant double as a level 1 Tuner. 

 

most people dont use veiler as a tuner, so its irrelevant.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="clairedestroyer" post="6167315" timestamp="1364059699"]counterpoints:   macro/d fissure, eatos etc etc.   you cant state that putting a monster in grave isnt BAD for some decks because its GOOD in others. also, the only noteworthy deck that runs avarice is merlanteans, and they dont run veiler. also also, plenty of decks dont use it as a tuner ever, so the synchro bit is meaningless and the reborn bit becomes much less useful. same with debris.   face it, the only time veiler is better is the first turn, and thats only relevant against ftks or first turn LaDD, which you should be able to play around anyways.[/quote] I'm not arguing that this is better than fiendish, because fiendish is obviously much better this format, but your statement about veiler choking up the grave is inaccurate. 1. a. Lol@Eatos b. Only 1 mentionable deck runs Macro/Dfissure, that deck being rabbit. 2. Putting monsters in the grave is good for a much broader range of decks than it is bad. 3. Most rarely use it as a tuner, that bit is true. Regardless, the tuner aspect of the card is still another reason why putting it in the grave is beneficial, and you've given no reason to suggest otherwise other than "you won't use it very much", when it is still a potentially beneficial option. 4. I've debris'd this multiple times to my advantage in plants. So, all you've really given me to say that it going to the grave being a negative point is that it conflicts with Macro, when it being in the grave can have a number of uses.

[Master of Sabers]

I've never liked veiler. I really disliked it, even when Inzektors were @3 each. I ran it because I had to, because stopping Dfly was so imperative. But other than that, I won't run it. Fiendish is so much better IMO. I'd run breakthrough skill over veiler. 

[Aerion Brightflame]

I'm not arguing that this is better than fiendish, because fiendish is obviously much better this format, but your statement about veiler choking up the grave is inaccurate. 1. a. Lol@Eatos b. Only 1 mentionable deck runs Macro/Dfissure, that deck being rabbit. 2. Putting monsters in the grave is good for a much broader range of decks than it is bad. 3. Most rarely use it as a tuner, that bit is true. Regardless, the tuner aspect of the card is still another reason why putting it in the grave is beneficial, and you've given no reason to suggest otherwise other than "you won't use it very much", when it is still a potentially beneficial option. 4. I've debris'd this multiple times to my advantage in plants. So, all you've really given me to say that it going to the grave being a negative point is that it conflicts with Macro, when it being in the grave can have a number of uses.

 

1. Macro is also one of the best side cards in the format.

2. Putting certain monsters in the grave is what's important, not just getting things in the grave.

3. If it's never used as a tuner in a deck, and synchro's are never put in the deck in order to make that happen, then it can be ignored as a point. In other decks it can't.

4. But Plant's aren't relevant anymore... If you laugh at the Eatos argument, when your resurrecting argument is about a likewise non relevant deck then surely you can laugh off that to?

 

But as I think we've all agreed, Fiendish is a better card this format for effect negation.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

my point of contention is that fiendish is better than veiler for every format, and people only ran veiler for very specific, not necessarily true reasons.

[ihop]

I've never liked veiler. I really disliked it, even when Inzektors were @3 each. I ran it because I had to, because stopping Dfly was so imperative. But other than that, I won't run it. Fiendish is so much better IMO. I'd run breakthrough skill over veiler. 

 

Not to mention the fact that this was the same format as 3 Rabbit 3 Tourguide Dino Rabbit and the Wind-Up Loop.