Miror B Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Good luck getting off blaster. Last I checked Ophion doesn't stop blaster from discarding itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Honestly the best out E-Dragons have against Ophion is Breakthrough Skill. Everyone should be at least siding a couple, if not maining them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Honestly the best out E-Dragons have against Ophion is Breakthrough Skill. Everyone should be at least siding a couple, if not maining them. http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Blaster,_Elemental_Dragon_of_Calderas [quote] You can discard this card and 1 other FIRE monster to the Graveyard to target 1 card on the field; destroy that target. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 It's harder to pull than it sounds, and Evilswarms main Dress anyways :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Last I checked Ophion doesn't stop blaster from discarding itself. No, I mean that getting off Blaster itself is a rare and rather minus-y occurrence, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 It's harder to pull than it sounds, and Evilswarms main Dress anyways :/ I cannot take that comment seriously without picturing Ophion in a dress. OT: What else can be said about this card, other than the fact that it is within its niche again? Searches up protection and searchers, while keeping at bay threatening monsters that are not Rank 4- Xyz with 2550+ ATK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 devil's advocate gooo I don't see the issue with this card. It only seems to function as a way to screw over decks that can't function without their respective boss monsters, which are pretty much the very definition of degenerate decks in my book. Because of that, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with bending them over, even if- no, -especially- if they take up the majority of the decks in the format. Is it the interaction this card has with other cards in the deck that make it the issue? I haven't played this deck (or game, for that matter) on any serious level in months, so I would really like to be informed, but from here it seems to be a card that's only as "bad" as the format is (i.e. Solemn.) I'm only speaking from the perspective of this card alone, so if someone could fill me in on just what's wrong with this card taking the rest of the deck into account, that'd be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 The impact of this card depends on the format, really. In a Wind-Up/Rabbit/Inzektor dominated one this would see no play whatsoever in the metagame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 [quote name="Nightmare Zarkus" post="6181462" timestamp="1365978536"][size=8]devil's advocate gooo[/size] I don't see the issue with this card. It only seems to function as a way to screw over decks that can't function without their respective boss monsters, which are pretty much the very definition of degenerate decks in my book. Because of that, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with bending them over, even if- no, -especially- if they take up the majority of the decks in the format. Is it the interaction this card has with other cards in the deck that make it the issue? I haven't played this deck (or game, for that matter) on any serious level in months, so I would really like to be informed, but from here it seems to be a card that's only as "bad" as the format is (i.e. Solemn.) I'm only speaking from the perspective of this card alone, so if someone could fill me in on just what's wrong with this card taking the rest of the deck into account, that'd be great.[/quote] TIL that decks that don't Xyz or aren't laden with card removal are degenerate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cute Rotten Yoshika Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 The impact of this card depends on the format, really. In a Wind-Up/Rabbit/Inzektor dominated one this would see no play whatsoever in the metagame. i think it still would just because it searches a consistency card. but bahamut would likely become the go to verz boss in a format like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 TIL that decks that don't Xyz or aren't laden with card removal are degenerate Uhhhh I didn't say that I argued that a deck that can't function without a boss monster is what was degenerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 [quote name="Nightmare Zarkus" post="6181570" timestamp="1365992230"]Uhhhh I didn't say that I argued that a deck that can't function without a boss monster is what was degenerate.[/quote] It's not that the decks he hits can't function without a single linear boss, it's that they can't function without freaking summoning anything of substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 It's not that the decks he hits can't function without a single linear boss, it's that they can't function without freaking summoning anything of substance. I know, but I'm arguing that if the boss monsters are the only thing of substance the deck has, that's a problem. This has been a recurring theme with YGO for a long while now and only a few decks in the past few years (that I can't name for sure, but I -think- Mermails and Fire Fists are some more recent ones) can function of their own merits without relying on level 5+ monsters with ridiculous effects. I don't even necessarily believe that's huge problem (hence devil's advocate,) I'm just waiting for someone to argue why it isn't : x I have my own problems with this card and wanna see if they're the same ones everyone else has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 My biggest problem with Ophion is that he wipes entire deck types clean off the board in a very brutish manner. He changed the game in such a way that you have to jump through hoops building your deck in case you face him, which I think is too much gravity for a single card to bear. He also narrows down the list of viable deck types at a given time, reducing diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BehindTheMask Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 1. In an ideal game state, both would be hit. And for the record I did say that his existence was excusable due to Judgment derp day and EDragons being retarded. 2. Not all decks can make temtempo/rank 4s/etc., and they shouldn't be pressured to do so to play around one poorly designed card. Ophion pushes entire deck types out of the way, and I think that's unhealthy for the game. 3. I should have stated my point more clearly. What I meant to say was that summoning Ophion means GG against those deck types that he mutilates, which is a fairly broad range. Which it pretty much does. What deck types does Ophion "push...out of the way"? I'm not seeing it at all. At worst, Ophion soft locks the board and makes the opponent play yugioh. Every deck has answers to it, and can play around it. If you can't handle a top deck, and auto-lose to it, change your deck/sideboard/strategy. Mermails are very viable(and still the best deck right post HA07) and don't auto-lose to Ophion. You just have to make sure you do stuff like make reads and conserve answers. E-Dragons have blaster and exploder dragon. Also, if E-Dragons go first, Drago-sac + LaDD pretty much prevents them from summoning this. Prophecy has Breaker + Power, Tsukuyomi to turn this off, Fate, etc etc. FF laugh at this card(Bear/Defensive Traps). Frog monarchs don't special summon monarchs lol. Terrible card design. Nice reasoning bro. I liked all your examples and argumen...oh wait. TIL that decks that don't Xyz or aren't laden with card removal are degenerate Which decks are these? E-Dragons and Prophecy are degenerate as hell. To be honest, Most decks this format are and can vomit unbeatable boards and huge dudes. This just seems like you are crying "omg my broke stuff has a hard counter to it. boo hoo why am i forced to play yugioh waaaaawaaawaaaa" It's not that the decks he hits can't function without a single linear boss, it's that they can't function without freaking summoning anything of substance. Might need to call the WAAAAMBULANCE for this one. Decks that "auto-lose" to one card shouldn't exist. The fact that they are checked is a GOOD thing. The fact that these same decks have turn one win conditions are stupid. Also "lswarms" have very lackluster cards. Its a glorified version of Dino-Rabbit.Yeah, Thunder bird and Kerycion(when we get him) are legit threats, but look at the others. Mandragora is a 1550 cyber dragon, Heliotrope is literally a vanilla. Castor needs another lswarm monster to be useful, Being able to Rabbit is nice, but whoop de doo. The deck is good because it plays Traps(those purple cards like Solemn Warning and Fiendish Chain), Defensive spells like Pandemic and Dress, to protect their Win Condition(Ophion). Yeah, sometimes nutty hands like Rabbit, make Ophion, set 5 happen. Every deck has those, some more than others. Adapt or Die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 He adjusts how you play the game and build your deck. Which is the same reason a lot of us gave to kill Inzektor Hornet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BehindTheMask Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 He adjusts how you play the game and build your deck. Which is the same reason a lot of us gave to kill Inzektor Hornet. Not in the same way though. Hornet cleared your board and put 8k damage on board. Inzektors is a lot harder to disrupt, and punished you for trying to play Defensively(with cards like Mirror Force and Dimensional Prison). This card prevents big dudes from dropping, and can search for a one turn immunity from spells and traps. Yeah, is it unfair? - probably, however, he doesn't automatically win you the game. You need to back him up with cards like Dress/Safe Zone/Pandemic, which isn't that unfair. Grinding a game out isn't a bad thing at all. His interactions with the Virii cards are a bit broke(but thats more the Virii than Ophion himself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Not in the same way though. Hornet cleared your board and put 8k damage on board. Inzektors is a lot harder to disrupt, and punished you for trying to play Defensively(with cards like Mirror Force and Dimensional Prison). This card prevents big dudes from dropping, and can search for a one turn immunity from spells and traps. Yeah, is it unfair? - probably, however, he doesn't automatically win you the game. You need to back him up with cards like Dress/Safe Zone/Pandemic, which isn't that unfair. Grinding a game out isn't a bad thing at all. His interactions with the Virii cards are a bit broke(but thats more the Virii than Ophion himself). Hornet needed Dragonfly to do any of that 8K damage. Ophion doesn't grind, he stops several decks from doing anything unless they draw what usually amounts to one of a single out. He restricts the game far more than a single card should, which was my point. Also, your sig is more obnoxious than any card in the metagame. You should make it smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BehindTheMask Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Hornet needed Dragonfly to do any of that 8K damage. Ophion doesn't grind, he stops several decks from doing anything unless they draw what usually amounts to one of a single out. He restricts the game far more than a single card should, which was my point. Also, your sig is more obnoxious than any card in the metagame. You should make it smaller. A) Fair point. Although I think hornet is worse than Dragonfly, I definitely understand Dragonfly is terrible too. B) Ophion is bad, but the other decks that it stops are worse because they just vomit their hand and prevent interaction. Who cares if you have 6 cards in hand on turn two if LaDD can negate up to 4 of them? Spellbook Day of Judgment makes what is already a pretty great deck even more stupid. The deck has 3 Secrets, 3 Magicians, and Masters...they don't need this. Granted it does hurt Water a lot, but Water is the best deck. They still have outs to Ophion. Obviously, Ophion in a different meta is down right bad for the game. however there are numerous things wrong with this format to label Ophion as a big deal. C) I know my sig is obnoxiously long. Im just too lazy to edit the pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Also, your sig is more obnoxious than any card in the metagame. You should make it smaller. I hope you're being sarcastic, as yours is basically as big. OT: A necessary evil. Completely wrecks Synchro decks, and Elemental Dragons are massively Harmed due to it. Prophecy can get around it mildly easily, and mermails I still know nothing about, so eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I hope you're being sarcastic, as yours is basically as big. OT: A necessary evil. Completely wrecks Synchro decks, and Elemental Dragons are massively Harmed due to it. Prophecy can get around it mildly easily, and mermails I still know nothing about, so eh. Prophecies might encounter the 1st turn bull**** EEV lucksack, but other than that they can get around Evilswarms. Well, I can say that Ophion and Evilswarms in general are weak against Fire Fists for obvious and subtle reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I hope you're being sarcastic, as yours is basically as big. OT: A necessary evil. Completely wrecks Synchro decks, and Elemental Dragons are massively Harmed due to it. Prophecy can get around it mildly easily, and mermails I still know nothing about, so eh. >Comments about sig >Guy changes sig >Person tries to call me out ok OT: Your best bet to play around it is to go first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Did nobody know that I was talking about Macro Cosmos, or do people not use Macro Cosmos in Verz? It blocks Blaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cute Rotten Yoshika Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Did nobody know that I was talking about Macro Cosmos, or do people not use Macro Cosmos in Verz? It blocks Blaster. most verz builds dont side macro because that stops their monsters hitting the grave, hurting kery badly. they sometimes side d-fissure since they can dodge the issue with careful xyz management. though considering how many mained anti blaster cards they use it doesnt seem optimal in the slightest to side in even more, especially when it has marginal utility at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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