Parodiso

[Exiro]

-1 is nothing.

Why aren't you running Karma Cut?

[Suibon]

Black Luster Soldier can only attack twice if it attacks once and destroys a monster, thus exposing them to Battle Phase counters and the like, thus necessitating protection and buffs for BLS's attacks to go through.

 

One has the potential to be a walking OTK. The other doesn't have that potential.

 

 

 

It's infinitely easier to use Goyo Guardian's effect than it is to use Hydrogeddon's effect. You'd know this if you played in any format where Goyo existed. They aren't a good comparison at all and the "resources" you need to summon and use the effects of either aren't comparable.

 

To use Hydrogeddon's effect, you drop Hydrogeddon, attack, and attempt to prevent your opponent from responding and/or weaken the opponent's monster so that you get the other Hydrogeddon -- though not necessarily in that order. You lose at least one card to prevent your opponent from keeping his monster in the face of a Hydrogeddon attack, a given given Hydrogeddon's low stats.

 

To use Goyo's effect, you commit a Tuner and non-Tuner(s) to the field, sync for Goyo, proceed to Battle Phase, attack something that would be worth stealing, prevent opponent from responding, the works. You lose the Synchro Materials and a counter to gain the opposing monster.

 

 

Also, looking through your unlimited section... do you have any idea why cards were put in the banlist in the first place and how long have you even been playing Yugioh?

 

Which cards would do you have problems with? I can explain them, though I can't guarantee that what I say would be understood.

[Agro]

Hydrogeddon + Lance = 2nd Hydrogeddon
This is a +1 play. You lose the lance and gain Hydrogeddon. Your opponent loses a monster to battle.
 
Dragunity Dux -> Goyo -> opponent's monster.
This is a +2 play. You lose the Dux, but gain Goyo, and an opponent's monster. Your opponent loses a monster to battle.
 
And the best part about all this? Only one of these two examples involves a 2800 ATK beatstick that's likely to stay on the field to do it again next turn.
 
And I believe I already pointed out all the ideas I thought were stupid and demonstrated an obvious lack of knowledge of why cards are on the banlist in the first place.
 

Banned

 

Allure of Darkness

Blackwing - Gale the Hurricane

Card Trooper

Charge of the Light Brigade

Hope for Escape

Lonefire Blossom

Reasoning

Wind-Up Rat

Wind-Up Hunter

 

Limited

 

Reborn Tengu

 

Unlimited

 

Advanced Ritual Art

Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier

Burial from the Different Dimension

Debris Dragon

Destiny HERO - Malicious

Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier

Exodia the Forbidden One

Foolish Burial

Gladiator Beast Bestiari

Goyo Guardian

Left Arm of the Forbidden One

Left Leg of the Forbidden One

Metamorphosis

Plaguespreader Zombie

Reinforcement of the Army

Right Arm of the Forbidden One

Right Leg of the Forbidden One

Thousand-Eyes Restrict

Time Seal

Torrential Tribute

Tribe-Infecting Virus

Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity

 

 

Why aren't you running Karma Cut?

 

 

Please take into account the -1 I was referring to.

 

And the fact that -1ing for a Synchro doesn't matter if:

A. It's not a -1 because another effect gave me a +1 material

B. A monster's effect will give me a +1 after the summon

 

The joke being that both of these are true and I'm actually going to be plussing this whole time.

 

So, yes. Like I was saying, -1 is nothing. Like literally, there's no overall -1 there.

[Exiro]

Please take into account the -1 I was referring to.

 

And the fact that -1ing for a Synchro doesn't matter if:

A. It's not a -1 because another effect gave me a +1 material

B. A monster's effect will give me a +1 after the summon

 

The joke being that both of these are true and I'm actually going to be plussing this whole time.

 

So, yes. Like I was saying, -1 is nothing. Like literally, there's no overall -1 there.

 

-1'ing for Karma Cut doesn't matter because Volcanic Shell doesn't exist. Why aren't you running Karma Cut?

[Suibon]

... and what about any opposing counters to prevent Goyo (and Hydrogeddon) from using his effect? Mirror Force, Dimensional Prison, the works? The interactive nature of both cards demand that counters be factored in the discussion as possible balancing factors.

 

And I believe I already pointed out all the ideas I thought were stupid and demonstrated an obvious lack of knowledge of why cards are on the banlist in the first place.

 

I already explained some of them, but no worries, you'll see them again.

[Sora1499]

Sack, the Broken Card

{LIGHT/Level 10/Warrior/Effect}

You can special summon this card (from your hand) by banishing 2 monsters from your graveyard.  When this card destroys an opponent's monster by battle and sends it to the graveyard, you win the duel.

3000/2500

 

... and what about any opposing counters to prevent Sack, the Broken Card from using his effect? Mirror Force, Dimensional Prison, the works? The interactive nature of both cards demand that counters be factored in the discussion as possible balancing factors.

According to your "logic", this card is balanced.  

 

Counterability is rarely a proper argument, especially in a context like this one.

 

The unseen argument that holds your logic together is that resolving Goyo or BLS doesn't necessarily win you the duel, which is clearly not the case in many scenarios, whether it directly wins you the duel or whether is contributes to a collective effect that ultimately wins you the duel.

 

 

To use Goyo's effect, you commit a Tuner and non-Tuner(s) to the field, sync for Goyo, proceed to Battle Phase, attack something that would be worth stealing, prevent opponent from responding, the works. You lose the Synchro Materials and a counter to gain the opposing monster.

This logic is bad because, under it, all synchros are balanced just for being synchros, which is faulty in and of itself.  Examples?

[spoiler='Oh gee, I dunno']  [/spoiler] 

[evilfusion]

What if I use Heavy Storm or similar to wipe out your backrow before bringing out Goyo? What if you don't actually have a backrow when I bring out Goyo? Sure, you could have Starlight Road in response to my argument, but it's equally likely you don't have it at that point in time.

 

The problem with hypothetical situations like this is that they're purely hypothetical and overvalue the odds of you having a counter at a specific moment in time that I intend to use a specific play. Depending on the Decks both of us are using, our luck factor in getting certain draws, or the set-up we established beforehand, there are innumerable vital details that cannot be perfectly predicted when having this discussion.

 

Goyo Guardian is NOT that similar to Hydrogeddon. Hydrogeddon has mediocre 1600 ATK and can only Summon copies of itself from the Deck. There are several ways to work around this, naturally, but Goyo Guardian is a generic Level 6 Synchro that has a massive 2800 ATK and steal the monsters that it kills. This rarely requires further investment to ensure a kill, and the stolen monsters can be used for Tribute, Synchros, Xyz, as an attacker/defender, or just to use the effects. Hydrogeddon pales in comparison, even if it gives access to Rank 4s, including Laggia.

 

Goyo Guardian has the ability to shift control of the game to a player purely by being used. Sure, it can be killed and countered, but if a counter isn't immediately available, it can swiftly shift advantage to one player, even if the opponent didn't do anything to deserve being punished aside from not having a counter to Goyo being Summoned and attacking.

 

The difference between some debatably broken cards like Heavy Storm and Mirror Force is that they usually punish a player for overextending, as setting too many S/Ts that don't include one capable of negating a S/T is usually a very bad play and is rightfully punished. Mirror Force punishes a player for swarming multiple monsters and trying to do an all-out assault. In such cases, having advantage shift to the other player is more karmic punishment for cockiness and bad playing than how broken those cards are.

 

This is why Mirror Force and Storm are usually accepted as cards that are necessary evils to promote skillful play. However, Goyo Guardian's massive ATK and monster theft ability in exchange for bringing out a Level 6 Synchro (which seriously, IS NOT HARD to do) does not promote skillful play, nor is it particularly "fair".

 

Other "monster theft" effects tend to have severe downsides that cripple the playability of the card. Red-Eyes Zombie Dragon is a Level 7 that gets the spammability of Zombie support, but only steals Zombie Monsters that it kills by battle. 2400 ATK isn't quite overwhelming, and the best way to make use of the effect is with the Field Spell Zombie World, which means the Deck has to be at least slightly more dedicated to that strategy. Goyo Guardian is generic as they come. Brain Crusher is a Level 7 with 2400 ATK that steals monsters, but that's all it's got going for it, and like Zombie Dragon (but minus the Book of Life spam potential), this isn't enough to make it good enough for play, especially since you'll usually need to draw the card first.

 

Goyo Guardian comes from the Extra Deck. You don't need to draw it from the Main Deck. This is a massive advantage that most of the other steal effects lack. Even Tragoedia requires you to have a monster of the same level of the desired monster in your hand. The biggest exception to the effect limitation is Big Eye, and a lot of people hate that card because it's become absurdly easy to Summon.

 

Putting Goyo at 3 is just a bad idea. Even if I could accept your argument that it's not hard to counter, giving someone 3 copies of it doesn't encourage skillful play because if they lose one copy, it's a minor setback and they can Summon another one later. Same reason why Black Rose Dragon was temporarily limited, as spamming it for its nuke effect was too easy. With less copies, it wasn't as spammable, so you couldn't be as reckless in bringing it out.

[Agro]

... and what about any opposing counters to prevent Goyo (and Hydrogeddon) from using his effect? Mirror Force, Dimensional Prison, the works? The interactive nature of both cards demand that counters be factored in the discussion as possible balancing factors.

You should never argue counters as a reason for why a card is fair. You should only use that argument when a card can't be countered.
 
Goyo gives you far too much for how much you actually have to put into it. Basic fact. Everyone who played this card knew this and understood when it was banned.
 
Let me state the reasons why a lot of the cards you moved are bad ideas:

Banned

Allure of Darkness - This card does nothing and there's no reason anyone should have to put it @0.
Blackwing - Gale the Hurricane - Blackwing is one of the most overhit cards Konami's ever dealt with. Black Whirlwind and Kalut are the problems with Blackwings. Hitting Gale is a solution without a problem.
Card Trooper - Whatever reason you have for this is stupid. Trooper's only problem is being a Machine Duplication target. That's literally it.
Charge of the Light Brigade - Oh, because the problem with Lightsworns totally isn't Judgment Dragon.
Hope for Escape - You put this @0 and put Exodia at 3. You MUST understand how retarded that is right? Exodia was limited LONG before this card came into existence and for good reason.
Lonefire Blossom - plants aren't a thing and this doesn't do enough to warrant a ban. Especially when you've already hit Dandylion
Reasoning - I'd actually like to hear your reasoning for this. If not anything but because it's ironic.
Wind-Up Rat - WU Rat doesn't need to be banned. WU Rat doesn't need to be Limited. WU Rat isn't a problem.
Wind-Up Hunter - ...now you're making me think that you're retarded...

Limited

Reborn Tengu - You put Malicious @3... yeah, just gonna refer to what I said about Hunter

Unlimited

Advanced Ritual Art - Demise OTK and Herald of Perfection are decks, you know? They were why this card was limited in the first place? And you didn't touch them.
Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier - You don't play yugioh. That's literally all I can think if you're going to put this to 3. 
Burial from the Different Dimension - You put Plaguespreader and this to 3... you obviously don't understand why they were limited in the first place.
Debris Dragon - Black Rose Dragon every turn. Yeah, that's fair.
Destiny HERO - Malicious - refer to Reborn Tengu.
Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier - Symbols of Heritage is a card.
Exodia the Forbidden One - This should be forbidden and it's idiotic to put it anywhere else.
Gladiator Beast Bestiari - You can't put this at 3 without banning G-Beast Gyzarus
Goyo Guardian - I think I've stated my opinion on this already.
Metamorphosis - Any Level 7 becomes a walking Oppression. Any Level 8 becomes a 2800 double attacker. Any Level 10 becomes a Shi-En without restrictions on a 2800 body F*CK NO
Plaguespreader Zombie - Refer to Burial from a Different Dimension and all of my previous statements about you having no idea why things were hit in the first place.
Reinforcement of the Army - ...no, like seriously, do you even know why this card was limited?
Thousand-Eyes Restrict - Instant Fusion becomes "Send 1 Monster to the Graveyard" and after that any revival cards becomes "Send 1 Monster to the Graveyard" Oh, and then it puts a monster on the field that stops your opponent from attacking. I can see why you think this is a good idea... note my sarcasm.
Time Seal - ...look up the Time Seal loop and Yata-lock, please.
Torrential Tribute - This is a god awful idea that encourages terrible play and gives every player 3 of one of the most powerful cards in the game.
Tribe-Infecting Virus - Merlanteans are a deck and this is a stupid move.
Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity - Did you start playing the game the day you posted this list? Because this card deserved to be banned for FAR more than just being able to loop Hunter. This card is broken beyond belief and allows you to loop so many cards.

 

Summary: There is literally only one word I can use to describe this list: Retarded. Seriously, the only explanations I can have for this list are:

1. You've never played Yugioh

2. You don't know how cards work with each other.

3. You don't know why cards were banned in the first place.

 

There's a lot of terrible decisions on this list. Please understand that I'm only trying to help you learn that.

[Suibon]

I'll deal with a few I haven't dealt with yet with short and maybe misleading tl;drs, since I'm in the middle of editing the OP.

 

Blackwing - Gale the Hurricane - Blackwing is one of the most overhit cards Konami's ever dealt with. Black Whirlwind and Kalut are the problems with Blackwings. Hitting Gale is a solution without a problem.

 

It's a Blackwing Tuner with perma-Shrink. There's your problem.

 

 

Hope for Escape - You put this @0 and put Exodia at 3. You MUST understand how retarded that is right? Exodia was limited LONG before this card came into existence and for good reason.

 

1) Is paying 1000 Life Points to draw 3, 4, 5 cards a cost?

 

2) Don't you dare pull a 'X is older, therefore Y is the problem' argument on me.

 

 

 

Wind-Up Hunter - ...now you're making me think that you're retarded...

 

Either it is useless and a Victory Dragon chomping its victory cigar, or useful and Victory Dragon Match-winning.

 

 

Reborn Tengu - You put Malicious @3... yeah, just gonna refer to what I said about Hunter

 

Tengu is Level 4. Malicious in a world without Stratos is Level 6. Do the math.

 

 

Advanced Ritual Art - Demise OTK and Herald of Perfection are decks, you know? They were why this card was limited in the first place? And you didn't touch them.

 

Demise OTK is over-rated and Herald.dek is very reliant on Kristya to punch above its weight.

 

 

Tribe-Infecting Virus - Merlanteans are a deck and this is a stupid move.

 

Give me a reason for Mermail/Atlanteans to main it when there are far more synergistic choices available to them.

 

 

1. You've never played Yugioh

2. You don't know how cards work with each other.

3. You don't know why cards were banned in the first place.

 

1. I played competitively from 2005 to 2007. Tried to return in 2011 but Hyper Librarian scared me away. Such an old wuss I am.

 

2. It pays to see the problem from multiple vantage points.

 

3. But is taking this approach and not that approach the right one?

[Agro]

It's a Blackwing Tuner with perma-Shrink. There's your problem.

That isn't a problem @1. Literally, at all.

 

1) Is paying 1000 Life Points to draw 3, 4, 5 cards a cost?

 

2) Don't you dare pull a 'X is older, therefore Y is the problem' argument on me.

Don't you dare put the "ideal format" idea on me while making unideal decisions. Hitting this card is ignoring the problem. Exodia is a huge issue and you've been stupid enough to unlimit all of its pieces.

 

Either it is useless and a Victory Dragon chomping its victory cigar, or useful and Victory Dragon Match-winning.

This card has nothing to do with Victory Dragon. At all. No one even runs it. Zenmaity was the problem, this is fair without it. Zenmaity isn't.

 

Tengu is Level 4. Malicious in a world without Stratos is Level 6. Do the math.

That doesn't change anything. Destiny Draw is @3. You put fucking Foolish Burial @3. Do you not see how that will work together?

 

Demise OTK is over-rated and Herald.dek is very reliant on Kristya to punch above its weight.

You banned Hope for an Escape even though it's only a problem in Exodia, which is more of a problem than Hope for an Escape. Please stop arguing in circles.

 

Give me a reason for Mermail/Atlanteans to main it when there are far more synergistic choices available to them.

Give me one reason someone won't abuse the shit out of it when it's open to them and broken. Don't use "everything is already broken beyond belief" as a reason, when

 

3. But is taking this approach and not that approach the right one?

Not when your approach involves banning tame cards and unlimiting broken ones. Or just unlimiting cards for no reason... which isn't an alternate approach, it's just... well, idiocy.

[Synchronized]

It's not worth it to argue this guy any further when he put Malicious at 3 but Tengu at 1.

 

Seriously you should've stopped there.

[Suibon]

It's not worth it to argue this guy any further when he put Malicious at 3 but Tengu at 1.

 

Seriously you should've stopped there.

 

It won't be as puzzling once you take note that I banned Stratos.

[Synchronized]

It won't be as puzzling once you take note that I banned Stratos.

 

That doesn't change the fact that Destiny Draw is a card, as is Plaguespreader Zombie.  Malicious is still horrible design even without Stratos as a factor.

[Suibon]

That doesn't change the fact that Destiny Draw is a card, as is Plaguespreader Zombie.  Malicious is still horrible design even without Stratos as a factor.

 

What banning Stratos does among other things is that Destiny Draw ditching Malicious when you want to becomes a crapshoot -- instead of Malicious being signed, sealed, and hand-delivered right to Destiny Draw's doorstep courtesy of Stratos, thus ensuring a Level 6 Synchro Material in the Grave at your beck and call, in addition to the two cards Destiny Draw provides, Malicious is now practically unsearchable and thus Malicious + Destiny Draw is rendered inconsistent.

 

I should get back to what I was doing.

[Agro]

You don't need Stratos. You've given the deck that uses Malicious 3 Foolish Burials. Signed, sealed, and delivered. Also, it's filled with anthrax. 

 

I'm done here.

[Suibon]

You don't need Stratos. You've given the deck that uses Malicious 3 Foolish Burials. Signed, sealed, and delivered. Also, it's filled with anthrax. 

 

I'm done here.

 

Which is the more advantageous play -- Foolish Burial milling Malicious, or Destiny Draw discarding Malicious searched by Stratos?

 

(Progress report -- I'm almost done giving my observations on the first five cards (why five cards? exposition takes time, typing takes time, and the time here is lunch) -- just another round of revision for Kalut --

 

-- and I limited all them Gadgets based on the very likely possibility of Machina Gadgets becoming a huge huge thing.)

[Agro]

Note that I'm not going to post another response after this one.

 

I just want you to completely understand that you're making up a lot of theory-O without actually knowing how things work. I'm quickly doubting you've even tried testing this format, and, from what you told me about when you played this game, have no idea how the cards you're unlimiting and hitting even work in practice.

 

Good day.

[Superdoopertrooper]

The funny thing is though, she's completely right about Foolish + Malicious and you seem to be too stubborn to admit that. Foolish can be at any number if all you're concerned about is Mali. Using foolish takes away from the advantage that Mali would normally generate, so instead of being a +1, he's just another +0 (the first time). Whereas searching him for free with Stratos and discarding him with D-Draw is infinitely better, as that was already a +1, and when you activate Mali, it will be another +1. So you can take a chill pill on that one, Foolish at 3 wont make Mali much (if any) better.

[evilfusion]

Foolish + Malicious is of course less beneficial of a play than Stratos -> Malicious -> D-Draw. That's because Stratos is a +1, D-Draw is a +0, and Malicious' effect is a +1. The Stratos + D-Draw combo was a net +2. And that would be a terrible time to put Malicious at 3 because the second Malicious would be another +1 to get the third after you Synch Malicious or similar.

 

Without Stratos' +1, Malicious is definitely WEAKER, but it's still very good and probably shouldn't be put at 3 alongside D-Draw at 3, Plaguespreader at 3, etc. Plaguespreader was Malicious' best friend since Crush Card Virus, because if you happened to have an unwanted Malicious in hand, you could put it back on the Deck to SS Plague, then banish a Malicious from the Grave to bring the Malicious you stacked to the top, and Synch for Level 8 Synchro.

 

Foolish by contrast is a -1, but Foolish is considered a great card because it creates Grave set-up. 3 Foolish Burial increases consistency by making it more likely you'll draw one. Foolish and Malicious is a +0, and a potential +1 with 3 Malicious. 

 

Honestly, I don't particularly care if Malicious is at 3. My issue is the argument for Tengu being limited vs Malicious being at 3. Tengu limited is literally worthless. I don't think Tengu is so problematic that it must be rendered into a 1700 Normal monster whereas Malicious' similar effect is allowed at 3. Tengu at 2 has ceased to make it the unfairly good card it was when it was at 3.

[Superdoopertrooper]

I'm glad you see that Mali can be at 3 with no real problems, and I can certainly relate to your dismay about the Tengu vs Mali argument. I fully understand how you would be irritated by the pure irony of putting Mali to 3 and Tengu to 1 because it makes absolutely no sense.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Three things looking over the list, and ignoring the points everyone else has picked up mostly (Like Tengu, Goyo and Exodia.)

 

One: Why have you put Brionac to 3, when it's sole existence is to create Loops, and help make OTK's? Not to mention that Atlantean's exist to abuse it further, and left Dragoons intact? I'm struggling to see a logic behind that one.

 

Two: Why have you limited Gadgets when they are fundamentally good examples of card design? Gadget decks themselves are repetitive and boring, but they aren't detrimental to the game in comparison to most deck. I mean if Gadget decks are the problem for you, IMO there's other hits before the Gadgets.

 

Three: Gale... you hit Black Whirlwind which made Gale a problem card by making it searchable, you hit Kalut as well, which I can't so much argue with, but it's main issue over Honest was Searchability. Gale might be a permanent Shrink, but why is that a broken thing when the tempo of the game is so high? Being a Blackwing tuner is not a reason to hurt Gale, because you have already killed Blackwing's as a deck. Decks do not run Gale already despite supposedly being a way to make big monsters worthless. I mean, people don't side in Gale to play Incarnates, who are like the gods of making big monsters quickly. And extra deck monsters take next to no effort to make in the decks that care for them nowadays, so it doesn't make that effort pointless. And if you make the argument that because they are minus 1 they are hard effort, then that's not the best argument you can make, because that labeling them all in the same situation, when many are different to that.

 

My biggest issue with your list is that... a lot of your hits which aren't seemingly moronic are ones based on card design, rather than actual impact they would have on game. And when you hit on card design, you should hit everything with Design like that, or nothing with design like that. At least in my view. Also, since you are hitting Honest, and Honest like cards, there's technically a War God Vessel that should be there.

 

Now your approach to the banlist is... interesting to say the least, but it feels flawed, in the sense that you are paying to much focus on paper than how it would be in practice.

[Suibon]

My biggest issue with your list is that... a lot of your hits which aren't seemingly moronic are ones based on card design, rather than actual impact they would have on game.

 

Exactly.

 

Oh, there is plenty to be said about hitting cards based on their impact, and it isn't as if I've wholly abandoned that concept myself, but I am of the opinion that the competitive impact X has cannot be compared to the implications its design raises on the game as there are too many variables to resolve -- a prime example being BLS-EotB, a card that has fallen from its former glory as a centralizer during the lowlights of Chaos, something to be run, to something approaching win-moar status in the decks that don't mind running it, if not already there.

 

And when you hit on card design, you should hit everything with Design like that, or nothing with design like that. At least in my view.

 

The problem is that you have to be sensitive to any and all possible qualifications that makes X dissimilar to Y, despite whatever attributes they share, and then judge whether or not those differences matter. I'm not gun-shy about hitting and banning cards -- it's just that I don't want to hit something just because it seems similar to another card.

[Superdoopertrooper]

Why have you put Brionac to 3, when it's sole existence is to create Loops, and help make OTK's?

 

Because Brio is never used as an out to bigger monsters, stall or continuous cards, right?

[Aerion Brightflame]

Because Brio is never used as an out to bigger monsters, stall or continuous cards, right?

Fine I made a generalization to fit my point. I'm sure everyone on the site has done the same thing at some point. But even if it's an out to those, it produces far more degenerate loops than is healthy for the game. If it had once per turn on it, it'd be fine, and would be used exactly as you say it. But it's not. It does encourage OTK's and loops. And it banned for that very reason, before Atlanteans properly became a thing. I don't think it's exactly become less banworthy at that time.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Oh, there is plenty to be said about hitting cards based on their impact, and it isn't as if I've wholly abandoned that concept myself, but I am of the opinion that the competitive impact X has cannot be compared to the implications its design raises on the game as there are too many variables to resolve -- a prime example being BLS-EotB, a card that has fallen from its former glory as a centralizer during the lowlights of Chaos, something to be run, to something approaching win-moar status in the decks that don't mind running it, if not already there.

 

 

The problem is that you have to be sensitive to any and all possible qualifications that makes X dissimilar to Y, despite whatever attributes they share, and then judge whether or not those differences matter. I'm not gun-shy about hitting and banning cards -- it's just that I don't want to hit something just because it seems similar to another card.

 

In some cases though it's six of one and half dozen of the other. I mean, the subtitles might be important between some cards, but when the princaple and usage are the same, it's not exactly a distinction.

 

And whilst every extent of a cards impact on the game can't be measured that's true, you can measure enough of it for it to be a major part of ban-list decisions.  I mean take Goyo as an example. On paper, it's a 2800 beater that is a -1, and will eventually reward you back for the investment, and it can't utilize the effects of any Xyz it kills. However, in practice: The average attack that the bosses of most decks make will be in the region of 2500-2800. Making Goyo at the high end of monsters attack wise. These Bosses they become your cards, with no restrictions around them, and could just proceed to put more attack pressure on. Not to mention, level 6 is one of the easier levels to make, so it's easy to make, and is then hard to run over. The stealing of the bosses is also depriving your opponent of resources which he could use later in game.

 

I am under the impression that a perfect ban-list is one that looks at both design and impact on the game, not one that forgoes one for complete focus on the other. Since the issue with the current banlist aside from Konami wanting money and using it as a tool to that effect, is that Konami only hits based around competitive things, rather than design. In my mind, that's not a wide enough scope, and neither is just design. Both are needed and should be looked at.

[Agro]

Because Brio is never used as an out to bigger monsters, stall or continuous cards, right?

Because that DEFINITELY excuses it.