Monster Reborn

[Aerion Brightflame]

The problem is that you seem to think that certain power cards can't be skillful or good for the game. You can have a skillful format with Reborn legal and Reborn can be a skillful card to use and have positive effects on the game, which we should be wanting to keep. Cards being powerful is often in itself what makes it good for the game, because they generally have widely varying levels of power which depend on player decisions from both ends (Hole, Heavy, Mind Control, and yes, Reborn). Those cards are the apex of what sets players apart and creates a skill gap.

It's not so much that they can't be skillful, it's that they aren't creating the right kind of good in the game. Heavy and Dark Hole for example, punish over extension, which is a good thing for the game, and prevents set 5 pass formats and the like. Reborn does not. It does allow comebacks, but the comebacks aren't necessarily ones of skill.

 

The game state where Reborn has positive effects hasn't been present for a good number of formats irrc. So, it has no place being around as it is, because it's not helping to create a skillful game, which whilst the fault of other cards, it isn't something we could really fix at this stage, without the desperately needed reset. As it is Reborn will only become more and more broken as it's targets do, so hence it's time in the game has passed. In an ideal format, it probably could be at one.

[Toffee.]

To be fair, guys, the issues that Reborn has is that it's, more or less, on the same level as Pot of Greed.
It's incredibly splashable, has literally no drawbacks/strings attached to it, and can very easily force the game to swing in your favor, OR, just end up as a Winmoar card.
Call of the Haunted, on the other hand, as an example of Reborn being balanced:
Being a Trap makes it slower/can be Typhoon/Storm'd/etc ahead of time while it's Set.
Can be Typhoon/Storm'd/etc while its face-up, and you loose your monster.
Only picks monsters from your Graveyard, so is more dependant on what you have, and now whatever you just destroyed on the Opponent's side
Using the monster as Fusion/Synchro/Xyz disables your ability to use Gorz(Assuming you use it in the same deck)
And not every deck is willing to run Call, because it can do things on a faster level.

Yes, stating the obvious, but it's all still valid as to why Reborn is problematic.

[evilfusion]

I feel obligated to reiterate what is wrong with Monster Reborn, for those who don't already know.

 

- It's a Spell Card. You may play it the turn you draw it.

 

- It has no cost whatsoever, even a pseudo-cost like LP payment.

 

- It can affect any legal monster from either player's Graveyard. Semi-Nomis and Nomis are not balancing factors for Reborn. They are balancing factors for those monsters. Do not get this confused.

 

- There are no restrictions as to what you may do with this monster. Its stats are not affected. It may attack this turn. It may be Tributed, Synched, Fused, or used as Xyz Material. You may activate its effects.

 

That seems like enough to justify it being too powerful. Unlike Heavy Storm and Dark Hole, which encourage saving resources and deciding what to commit to the Field to cover most of your opponent's options without ruining you should those resources be destroyed, Monster Reborn's only possible created mindset is "Can I afford to have this monster go to the Graveyard?", which is not a factor you actually have much say in, whereas with D-Hole and Storm, you may think "Can I afford to Set all these cards, or Summon all these monsters this turn?"

 

Monster Reborn is too flexible for what it does. Call of the Haunted has a double balancing factor in being a Trap Card that bonds itself with the Summoned monster, and that monster is only from your Graveyard. While being a Continuous Trap also lended abusability, it still attempted to be balanced, and as a result can be viewed as too slow for the fast meta. THIS IS A GOOD THING. The meta is too fast by most standards, and the Special Summon obsession, worsened during 5Ds with all the revival shenanigans, only makes Monster Reborn's lack of restriction more dangerous.

 

Sure, many players don't necessarily use Reborn for the purposes I mentioned, but for quick Xyz/Synchro Material, and possibly only from their Grave, but it also leads to late-game lucksacks, when most of the powerful cards have been played and destroyed, and players' LP is getting low. Drawing Reborn, wins the game because of a threat the opponent either used themselves and lost, or you used and lost. That's not skillful play, that's lucksacking, and is almost as infuriating as when the opponent draws Black Luster Solder - Envoy late game for the win.

 

I'm not agreeing with the idea that a player "should have lost" and gets the win, because it's not fair to say any player "should have" lost unless they played horrendously. But being able to make such an extreme comeback with a card that requires zero real Deck dedication is too powerful.

[guardianlore9098]

ugh, come on ppl w/ out monster reborn 1/2 of the decks ppl make would b k.o.'d, tote not cool, + i bet even the ppl here complaining about moster reborn use it in their decks so u would b k.o.ing those decks 2

[evilfusion]

ugh, come on ppl w/ out monster reborn 1/2 of the decks ppl make would b k.o.'d, tote not cool, + i bet even the ppl here complaining about moster reborn use it in their decks so u would b k.o.ing those decks 2

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

 

Yes, most, if not all, of us would use Monster Reborn. I use it because it's too powerful and flexible NOT to use. But that doesn't mean I believe it should be off the banlist.

 

In fact, using it has only made me more aware of how good it is, and that it really should be banned again. Using Dark Hole has taught me the opposite, that its existence is a good thing with the meta the way it is. Likewise with Heavy Storm. Both BLS and Reborn have only enforced how over-the-top good they are.

[Agro]

ugh, come on ppl w/ out monster reborn 1/2 of the decks ppl make would b k.o.'d, tote not cool, + i bet even the ppl here complaining about moster reborn use it in their decks so u would b k.o.ing those decks 2

Most people play EDragons, Prophecy, and Mermails.

Most people ALSO say that all of those decks should get wrecked by the banlist.

Your logics makes the mostest of senses.