Let's Get Retrained! Part 1

[Spenstar]

There are a lot of monsters that I see when surfing the Yugioh Wiki that don't get much love. They're mostly early-game normal monsters or monsters that only work in one specific archetype. So I'm going to be sharing either Retrained or Dark counterparts to several of these cards. I only have three so far, so let's start with them.

 

Wicked Wingweaver

DARK Counterpart to: Wingweaver

DARK/Fairy-type/2400/2750/Level 7

LORE: This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card can only be Special Summoned (from your Hand) when a LIGHT monster you control is destroyed in battle or by your opponent's card effect. This card gains 500 ATK for every card effect that raises its ATK, and loses 500 ATK for every card effect that lowers its ATK, except "Wicked Wingweaver."

 

EDIT: Switched her ATK and DEF, made her effect less powerful, made her a nomi, and extended her summoning condition to LIGHT monsters instead of just fairies. This way she's more applicable to LIGHT or Chaos decks.

 

Dark Magician in Training

DARK/Spellcaster-type/2500/900/Level 5

LORE: This card's name is also treated as "Dark Magician" except on the field.

NOTE: Aww Chibi Dark Magician. Would have preferred the Arcana version, but I'll use what I could get

 

Dark Sorceress

DARK/Spellcaster-type/2000/1700/Level 6

LORE: This card's name is also treated as "Dark Magician Girl." This card gains 300 ATK for every monster in either player's Graveyard with "Dark Magician" in its name or card text.

Note: Considering replacing effect with "Once per turn, you can banish 1 "Dark Magician" card from either player's Graveyard. If you do, this card gains 300 ATK." but on the fence about it.

 

I'm going to make more later if these go over well, with other, more obscure cards getting the retrain treatment. If you have any requests, let me know, and art would be greatly appreciated for said requests!

[Spenstar]

Don't know why nobody wants to say anything about these. I'll give it a bump. 

[AsmodeusCain]

I think you should nerd Dark Sorceress a bit, because there are a LOT of cards that mention Dark Magician in their text. 11 that I could find, maybe more. Right off the bat, that's 5300 ATK. Now, I know that it's highly doubtful that one could get all eleven of those cards into the grave, especially considering that some are retrains of each other, but over the course of a duel, one could easily get at least 5 cards with Dark Magician in the name or text. So, that makes a whopping 3500 hitter that is only level 6, and fairly easy to get out when running the right deck. Dark Magician in Training is pretty good, but I think that you should nerf him a bit, and maybe give him an effect where he SUMMONS Dark Magician. Wicked Wingweaver should have its ATK nerved, IMO, cuz you say that it's not that terrifying, but at 2750, it ranks in the top 50 out of 550 monster cards in ATK, coming in at somewhere close to 44th. Combined with the fact that its so easy to summon and that it gains such massive boosts to ATK, I really think that it should have, at max, 2000 ATK. But really, this is all just my opinion and I could be totally wrong...

[Spenstar]

I think you should nerd Dark Sorceress a bit, because there are a LOT of cards that mention Dark Magician in their text. 11 that I could find, maybe more. Right off the bat, that's 5300 ATK. Now, I know that it's highly doubtful that one could get all eleven of those cards into the grave, especially considering that some are retrains of each other, but over the course of a duel, one could easily get at least 5 cards with Dark Magician in the name or text. So, that makes a whopping 3500 hitter that is only level 6, and fairly easy to get out when running the right deck. Dark Magician in Training is pretty good, but I think that you should nerf him a bit, and maybe give him an effect where he SUMMONS Dark Magician. Wicked Wingweaver should have its ATK nerved, IMO, cuz you say that it's not that terrifying, but at 2750, it ranks in the top 50 out of 550 monster cards in ATK, coming in at somewhere close to 44th. Combined with the fact that its so easy to summon and that it gains such massive boosts to ATK, I really think that it should have, at max, 2000 ATK. But really, this is all just my opinion and I could be totally wrong...

 

Dark Sorceress, that nerf I understand. I'll drop the boost to 200 points per card. You get 5 DM monsters (they MUST be monsters, I'll fix the card text to state this with the lore underneath) and DS has 3000 ATK. That's fairly reasonable, and you need to run a DM deck to get that boost.

 

Could you explain why Dark Magician in Training needs a nerf? He's a DARK Spellcaster Cyber-Tech Alligator with half the DEF that's more searchable. When he's on the field, he has no effects whatsoever.

 

I understand the point with regards to Wicked Wingweaver, but these are retrained monsters, so I can't cut the raw stats. I'm looking, here, to retrain a LIGHT Fairy-type monster into a dark counterpart, same summoning condition, same effect. If it shouldn't be Wingweaver, who should it be?

[lanemanning]

I'm gonna side with Cain on DM Sorceress to a point: Nerf, yes, but not the ATK bump itself. Rather, edit the requirement text to "...for every "Dark Magician" card in either..." Currently that covers a grand total of 6 monsters, of which Cain's example of 5 in the graveyard is easily (and realistically) attainable. Love the art.

 

 DMiT: I get the concept. Don't get the "why", and I think it could be reworded slightly to fit in with PSCT better. Art is great.

 

Wicked Wingweaver: Would recommend nomi-hood, in addition to adding a ceiling of some sort to its ATK; currently Level 7 monsters average 2450 orginal ATK, WW's is already 300 ahead of the curve. Perhaps immunity to opponent's S/T/ME's that alter ATK? Art is 6/10 (only 'cause the bar was set fairly high, being a 1st-gen monster and all).

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

No, don't nerf Dark Sorceress. Seriously don't. The card is pretty much like a weaker version of King of The Skull Servants, and the ATK boost is fine as it is. Chances are, you would just run 3 of this and 3 of Skilled DM without it being a messy, unusable deck. If I were you, I would rather give it an alternate summon effect (So you can use Magi Magi Magician Girl) or something that lets you grab a Spell of some kind, not an ATK boost.

 

DMiT is fine for the most part. I would like it better if it was level 6, but that's just me. 

 

Wicked Wingweaver perplexes me because it doesn't seem to have a specific deck which it will work with well. (Of course, this is ignoring the painfully obvious Wicked Wingweaver OTK deck) Personally, I think it's a pretty nifty little card to run in let's say, Chaos Agents in 1s or another in the Side deck. This card seems like it will clog your hand quite a lot. Also, it promotes OTK-ing, and that's not really good. I mean, it's not as crazy as the Ben-Kei one, but it's there. A Wicked Wingweaver OTK deck isn't impossible. 

[lanemanning]

Wicked Wingweaver perplexes me because it doesn't seem to have a specific deck which it will work with well. (Of course, this is ignoring the painfully obvious Wicked Wingweaver OTK deck) Personally, I think it's a pretty nifty little card to run in let's say, Chaos Agents in 1s or another in the Side deck. This card seems like it will clog your hand quite a lot. Also, it promotes OTK-ing, and that's not really good. I mean, it's not as crazy as the Ben-Kei one, but it's there. A Wicked Wingweaver OTK deck isn't impossible. 

Still, it seems unbalanced. Yes, it isn't as splashable as, say, Obelisk the Tormentor (if you could really consider Obelisk "splashable"). On the other hand, this has turn 2 drop potential. A WWOTK "not impossible"? More like "doable with minimal effort".

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

Still, it seems unbalanced. Yes, it isn't as splashable as, say, Obelisk the Tormentor (if you could really consider Obelisk "splashable"). On the other hand, this has turn 2 drop potential. A WWOTK "not impossible"? More like "doable with minimal effort".

It was my point all over. It's unbalanced because it's rather unsplashable and is basically just an OTK card that degenerates the game even more. 

[lanemanning]

It was my point all over. It's unbalanced because it's rather unsplashable and is basically just an OTK card that degenerates the game even more. 

 

Well, there is something to be said about using Theme itself to balance a card. But you're right, it's another potential DAD.

 

'Star, what do you think about this? Haven't actually heard anything from you in a few posts, and these are your cards we're picking at.

[Spenstar]

Sorry, I've been busy.

 

Dark Sorceress: The problem seems to be that there are just too many monsters that could boost her ATK. Maybe I'm just going about this the wrong way. I see why lowering the ATK boost isn't feasible, but I like the idea of manipulating the applicable monsters in the graveyard for a different effect. Perhaps I could have her banish a monster with DM in its name or card text to get the ATK bonus, and even then, once per turn. So she has the same potential, but it requires banishing your Dark Magician monsters first and it's slower.

"Once per turn, you can banish 1 "Dark Magician" card from either player's Graveyard. If you do, this card gains 300 ATK."

 

Dark Magician In Training: I think I'll keep him as is. (remind me what PSCT is, lanemanning?)

 

Wicked Wingweaver: Looks like I chose the wrong monster for the wrong effect. I want to keep the stats as close as possible to the original monster (hence 2750/2400 stats and 7 stars) and use an effect that gives her a "fallen angel seeking revenge" feel and massive potential. This card needs a major do-over. I'll switch her status to nomi instead of semi-nomi, but it'll take more than that. Possible ideas:

• Use a different monster altogether, with weaker stats, same effect as Wicked Wingweaver
• Change Wicked Wingweaver's effect to something a la Maha Vailo. Most ATK boosting effects come from equip cards, but I'd like to also extend it to field spells. Perhaps "This card gains 500 ATK for every card effect that raises its ATK, and loses 500 ATK for every card effect that lowers its ATK, except "Wicked Wingweaver."
• If I switched her ATK and DEF (2400 ATK, 2750 DEF) would she still be considered a retrained/dark counterpart of Wingweaver? If so, I'll do that too.

[lanemanning]

Problem Solving Card Text

 

 

Don't misunderstand, I LIKE the concept of retraining Wingweaver. She's always been overlooked, IMO, since she came out before there was any real Fairy-Type support. I don't think she needs to have her stats altered, rather than slight alteration of the effect. Perhaps a Burn effect related to her stats instead of hyperinflation? How about this:

 

Wicked Wingweaver

DARK/Fairy-Type/Effect/7/2750/2400

Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must be Special Summoned (from your Hand) when a LIGHT monster you control is destroyed by your opponent's card (either by battle or by card effect) and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways. This card's ATK is 2750. When this card's ATK  would be changed by a card effect; inflict damage to your opponent equal to the change in ATK instead.

 

Got the inspiration for this from a combination of Fire Princess and Exchange Guard Robe (just watched ZeXal 102 and thought of this card!), and knew this was a way to balance her out. By specifically designating her ATK in the effect, we make her immune to Stat alteration but can include Field Spells without the burn effect conflicting (at least as I understand, since neither a Field Spell's ATK increase nor her built-in stat designation will use the Chain).

 

 

DMiT: You might consider going the "Neos Alius" route with him. Like this:

Dark Magician in Training

DARK/Spellcaster/Gemini/5/2500/900

This card is treated as a Normal Monster while face-up on the field or in the Graveyard. While this card is face-up on the field, you can Normal Summon it to have it become an Effect Monster with this effect.
●This face-up card's name becomes "Dark Magician".

 

Otherwise, if you leave it as-is, you run into this problem:

Dark Magician in Training

DARK/Spellcaster/5/2500/900

This card's name is always treated as "Dark Magician". You cannot apply this effect while this card is face-up on the field.

 

I guess I didn't understand the point behind him like I thought I did. You're squeezing out any usage of real "Dark Magician"s (and thusly most of his support) with this effect, since he counts toward the 3-per-deck rule.

 

 

Dark Sorceress: I've pretty well stated my personal opinion on this, and it seems to have had an influence.

 

 

 

 

 

Hope to hear from you soon!

[AsmodeusCain]

Can you retrain Summoned Skull? I really like it, and I'd love one with an effect. Thanks in advance!

[lanemanning]

Been done for real, Cain. Twice.