The current state of the meta.

[evilhorus]

First of all I'd like to link you all to the thread I made on the 30th of May, 2011.

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/251343-the-current-state-of-the-meta/

 

How is the meta these days?

...

 

Ok, nevermind. How do we fix it? Counter it? Are there severely underrated decks out there that can make shit of Prophecies and Dragon Rulers? How long will this meta last? Will it get even faster, or will slow play make a comeback?

 

Another thing I'd like to state is, that in the thread I linked above, I asked if there were worse metas than whichever one we had at the time, the response I got was TeleDAD.

 

Is what we have now worse than TeleDAD? Slightly better? Better/Worse than Synchro Cat/Sams?

 

What if they unbanned cards that promote a slow format. Would it only serve to exacerbate things?

 

Discuss.

 

[If this needs to be moved to the Theory section, fine by me. It used to belong in the TCG section, anyways]

[Blake]

It's better than DSF for the sheer fact that it actually gives you an extra turn as opposed to if DSF gets an FTK off and Hand Traps are now a thing.

 

 

Other than that, definitely ONE of the worst formats, and a pretty damn bad one at that.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Other than that, definitely ONE of the worst formats, and a pretty damn bad one at that.

Which is why I've given up playing on DN or irl for the time being. We need to bring a format back where slow and skillful play are applied, something like Goat Control where you actually have to "think" to play, and where even if you're ahead, you can't let up because the right card at the right time can change the course of the game.

 

But I don't think we'll be seeing that kind of format anytime soon...or ever again.

[Lonk]

I think this should belong in Theory since it is an analysis of the meta.

 

As for the second part of this, this meta revolves around being able to continuously gain advantage through a slippery slope, destroy the slippery slope, or lose.  I never participated in TeleDAD format, but at least this isn't a single deck being the top deck and oppressing everything else.  No, it's more of a diarchy, where two decks do that job.

[Just Crouton]

Which is why I've given up playing on DN or irl for the time being. We need to bring a format back where slow and skillful play are applied

_______________

 

Will never happen.

 

See, Konami is trying to appeal to people too lazy to learn how to play skillfully, so they make cards like the ones we have.

 

There's a reason I quit the game. One look at what Dragon Rulers could do while they were still new (it was a YGOPro video showing Big Eye spam or something), and I saw the future of the game. Decks like Dragon Rulers ARE the cards we'll see every March format from now on, each incarnation worse than the previous.

 

Konami doesn't want to make a good game, they want to push out "mindless" decks for the summer and make big dollars. And, like it or not, people want cards like that. They want the kids who watch that godawful abortion of a cartoon to be able to beat competent players because kids are the target audience. That's why the game is still alive after 13 years.

 

Why do they later hit these cards in September? Because they want to give us the illusion they care about game balance. It would look weird if several broken cards people were whining about for months were left untouched.

 

Why do they kill off the decks the following March? Because they need to push out their replacements. Konami doesn't want you playing Wind-Ups or Inzektors, the March 2012 decks, in March 2013 because they're pushing Dragon Rulers, Prophecies, and whatever 3rd deck that never gets mentioned. They WANT you to buy the new cards to fill their pockets, because they can't make money if the decks are sucking up dust on the shelf. That's why Wind-Up Carrier was banned. Now, that won't stop the snotty hipsters from playing Wind-Ups now that they're bad, but who cares about them? They'll get squashed by the competitive player's Dragon Rulers that runs $145 Big Eyes and $160 Dracossacks.

 

I say this now. By 2016, there will be 3 decks that turn your deck into your hand, which will be replaced in 2017 by auto-winners. That's the road the game is heading, and people will continue to whine about they hate the game as they shovel out hundreds of dollars each format to their sugar daddy, Konami.

 

Konami doesn't want to make the game "skillful" because the playerbase doesn't want to become "skillful." Yeah, people clamor for skill NOW, but evidently, whatever amount of money Konami is making off the current cards disagrees.

[newhat]

I don't feel like playing until September. Let me know if something interesting happens.

[evilhorus]

I don't feel like playing until September. Let me know if something interesting happens.

That's sort of my situation as well. I don't want to jump into Dragon Rulers, Prophecy and Mermails that I have no idea how to play. I'm hoping they'll get hit in September. I'll see then.

[Aerion Brightflame]

In all honesty, I think Konami has learned that Dragon Rulers and Judgement was a mistake.

 

If you look at every set post LTGY, with the possible exception of Yamato, there's very little terrible design, and almost nothing degenerate for the game, and it all seems to be shifting towards a slower game. Which generally has more skill involved in it. It suggests they are going to hit the main decks hard, and make things slow down a bit.

 

And whilst I'm not defending this format by any means, because it is one of the worse formats we've had and it tore apart a great format in the making before it could be realized, but it's not been as mono-deck as people thought. Given that, to the best of my knowledge: War Gods, Dragunity, as well as the expected 3 have been doing well. (I'm probably wrong on that, but last time I checked it's how things were).

 

But in terms of sheer deck power it's in the top 5 of bad formats. Along with Tele-DAD and Inzector format.

[evilhorus]

By 2016, there will be 3 decks that turn your deck into your hand, which will be replaced in 2017 by auto-winners. That's the road the game is heading,

I think that's taking it a bit too far.

 

They know they have to stop somewhere. If any of your situations happened, people would lose interest VERY quickly.

[Lonk]

In all honesty, I think Konami has learned that Dragon Rulers and Judgement was a mistake.

 

If you look at every set post LTGY, with the possible exception of Yamato, there's very little terrible design, and almost nothing degenerate for the game, and it all seems to be shifting towards a slower game. Which generally has more skill involved in it. It suggests they are going to hit the main decks hard, and make things slow down a bit.

 

And whilst I'm not defending this format by any means, because it is one of the worse formats we've had and it tore apart a great format in the making before it could be realized, but it's not been as mono-deck as people thought. Given that, to the best of my knowledge: War Gods, Dragunity, as well as the expected 3 have been doing well. (I'm probably wrong on that, but last time I checked it's how things were).

 

But in terms of sheer deck power it's in the top 5 of bad formats. Along with Tele-DAD and Inzector format.

 

Here is my opinion on why Konami made many badly designed cards in LTGY:

 

1)  They were taking an unsafe combination of narcotic drugs.  The holidays have ended, and many executives were still bitter from the winter.  So, to cheer them up, Konami decided to give them things such as methamphetamines and LSD to give them a morale and mental boost so that they can meet the quota for the LTGY set that was due in 3 months.  Unfortunately, this resulted in the R&D department making some horribly designed cards with the playtesting department saying that "This is good, maaaan!" while passing them off as "balanced" support.

 

2)  They were working with their own games on their mind.  They were making cards immediately after they played things like Gradius, Parodius, Metal Gear Solid series, Dance Dance Revolution, Castlevania, and their licensed version of No More Heroes: Heroes' Paradise.

 

3)  A combination of the two with some additional liquor thrown in.

[Mehmani]

The meta's pretty bad. But then again, when has it ever been "good?" I mean, even the old formats that we look upon through rose-tinted glasses were ghastly at the time. Yata Lock? X-Sabers? Blackwings in their prime, Glads? Do we really think those decks were any better or at least required more thought than the ones on offer at the moment?

[Althemia]

The meta's pretty bad. But then again, when has it ever been "good?" I mean, even the old formats that we look upon through rose-tinted glasses were ghastly at the time. Yata Lock? X-Sabers? Blackwings in their prime, Glads? Do we really think those decks were any better or at least required more thought than the ones on offer at the moment?

You could at least play with other decks than the top decks in their respective formats and stand some form of significant chance if you were skilled enough. In this one, there is no room for innovation nor skill. The decks are far too powercreeped for anything to properly keep up than themselves.

[Wildflame]

I was really hoping for an emergency banlist on June, the next format just seems so far away...

 

Wake me up when September comes.

 

(Pretty hypocrite for me to say this since I use all of those degenerate decks, but oh well)

[evilhorus]

I was really hoping for an emergency banlist on June, the next format just seems so far away...

 

Wake me up when September comes.

 

(Pretty hypocrite for me to say this since I use all of those degenerate decks, but oh well)

I wouldn't call you a hypocrite. It's not fair to expect people NOT to use the best decks. We might not like it, and we might appreciate variety, but if someone plays Dragon Rulers, for example, they're just keeping up with the game.

[Sora1499]

We'll probably see some form of meta nuke in September. Otherwise Konami wouldn't be able to sell boxes of SHSP or JOTL: people would still be playing super broke E-Drags and Prophecy instead of the new stuff that's tame by comparison.

[evilhorus]

We'll probably see some form of meta nuke in September. Otherwise Konami wouldn't be able to sell boxes of SHSP or JOTL: people would still be playing super broke E-Drags and Prophecy instead of the new stuff that's tame by comparison.

Unless the awful situation that is "even more broken cards are released" happens.

Sure, the meta might be nuked, but what if terrible radiation mutants climb out of the ashes?

[Mehmani]

I certainly agree on the power creep aspect - the power creep is this meta in particular has been insane. It's got to be scaled back at some point, really. What we all seem to be hoping for is that Konami neuters the big bads of this format and then releases archetypes that are as good as Tier 2 decks now. A reversal of power creep, if you will. It all works out nicely - Konami still make money from new cards but the game is fairer. They just have to release slightly weaker decks than the top ones this format. Konami have all the power in the world. They could easily do this.

 

But, they won't, because what they are doing now has worked for years, and any smart business will not change a method that works.

[Wildflame]

Edit: Weird double post

[Sora1499]

[quote name="evilhorus" post="6228949" timestamp="1372287358"]Unless the awful situation that is "even more broken cards are released" happens. Sure, the meta might be nuked, but what if terrible radiation mutants climb out of the ashes?[/quote] That's an interesting point. What might start to happen is "powercreep cycles". Konami destroys an insane meta format, then releases more balanced stuff, but then that stuff powercreep a up to the insane level of its predecessor, to be destroyed again. Then, balanced cards will be released and the cycle continues.

[evilfusion]

The only format I know of that was absolutely worse was Six Samurai format in...March of 2011? March 2012 was not nearly as bad as 2011, although it certainly wasn't the best. This format is the worst I've ever seen, and it'll take a lot to ever top it. I refuse to play rated on DN as a result. At least in 2012, I was running my Photon Deck (which performed quite well except against Inzektor).

[Mehmani]

Wait, how come nobody has mentioned Frog FTK format? That was definitely, absolutely the worst.

[evilhorus]

The only format I know of that was absolutely worse was Six Samurai format in...March of 2011? March 2012 was not nearly as bad as 2011, although it certainly wasn't the best. This format is the worst I've ever seen, and it'll take a lot to ever top it. I refuse to play rated on DN as a result. At least in 2012, I was running my Photon Deck (which performed quite well except against Inzektor).

What about TeleDAD? Cat Synchro?

[Lonk]

imo, the best format was the September 2011 format before ORCS.  Sure, Dino Rabbit was created, but every deck was capable of beating the other deck if the player was skilled.

[evilfusion]

What about TeleDAD? Cat Synchro?

 

I didn't play even casual competitive, or know crap about the meta during those eras. I played Yu-Gi-Oh only with friends at school, and I had the best cards of them, which isn't saying that much. I joined YCM as an essential noob, just a smarter one than average, evidently. Spending time on YCM is what eventually taught me the intricacies of the game to the point where I'm an expert on rulings now, and I'm currently just a solid player, still not a great one.

 

So in short, I never played during those formats and therefore cannot really judge how "bad" they were. For the same reason, I have no opinion on the often-stated claim that TeleDAD was the most skillful Deck.

[evilhorus]

I didn't play even casual competitive, or know crap about the meta during those eras. I played Yu-Gi-Oh only with friends at school, and I had the best cards of them, which isn't saying that much. I joined YCM as an essential noob, just a smarter one than average, evidently. Spending time on YCM is what eventually taught me the intricacies of the game to the point where I'm an expert on rulings now, and I'm currently just a solid player, still not a great one.

 

So in short, I never played during those formats and therefore cannot really judge how "bad" they were. For the same reason, I have no opinion on the often-stated claim that TeleDAD was the most skillful Deck.

I see. I also wasn't around during TeleDAD, but many people told me how horrible it was. I've also heard the claim it was skillful but I have no idea.

 

 

Wait, how come nobody has mentioned Frog FTK format? That was definitely, absolutely the worst.

*shudders*

 

God that was awful.