Xyz ninja

[Ziliath]

Name - Overlay ninja
Rank - 4
ATK - 1900
DEF - 1000
Attribute - DARK
Type - [warrior/Xyz/effect]
effect - 2 level 4 monsters
If this card has 3 or more overlay units attached to it you can use this card as the entire Xyz requirement for a dragon, dinosaur, or winged-beast Xyz monster(overlay units on this card also become overlay units on the summoned monster). Once per turn a monster with no overlay units can detach overlay units attached to this card.

Overlay units = Xyz material, no need to correct just for that.
Summoning this card first would add more overlay units to the new monster, not only that but he comes with an effect that makes him useful if you can't use his first effect, additionally an effect where he needs more OLU than he is summoned with means you need to combo him with something else to use his more powerful effect, like No. 91, and adds Xyz Support to ninja archetype.

[Blake]

It needs a restriction on what Ranks it can be used for. Being able to just become, say, Neo-Galaxy Eyes, Heart-eartH,

 

While its condition of needing 3+ materials is actually rather shitty at the moment, due in part to cards that add Xyz Materials being kinda mediocre at best, it still has a lot f lack in the design area that means it can be broken wide-open later on.

 

As it is, if you made it Rank 5 and lower, Rank 4-5, or w/e, it's basically just a Rank Up Magic-type Xyz if you use Overlay Regenerate, which means you're running a subpar card for some payoff. It's not horribly imbalanced at that point.

 

Second effect is neat, though.

 

Overall a good early card to make, just needs a bit more foresight put into it.

[Ziliath]

Btw I did have forsight as to how and why manually adding a OLU was needed

It was intended to not be able summon something as soon as it hit the field w/o help, which I think people have gotten soo used to being able to do so that anything that dose not do that is "sub-par" and I do not agree with that. But because of its first effect is like number 91 where you would detach 5 OLUs if you could for the greater effect, not being able to do so dose not make it bad, it makes you a better player if you pull it off, which it has its second effect for; is what should be used for mainly unless you have the right hand

Requiring a third OLU to manually be added prevents the slippery Slope situation, also sure overlay regen has its niche, but I saw a few official cards that steal OLU, it might become a thing....

However the point about going into heart earth dragon is a good point, I did not want it to be just a monster version RUM, but I will limit it to rank 8 or lower... Or should the number of overlay units + 1 define the level restriction, + 1 because this card becomes a OLU too and the rank of the summoned monster would equal the number of OLUs attached.

[Blake]

Btw I did have forsight as to how and why manually adding a OLU was nessary It was intended to not be able summon something as soon as it hit the field w/o help, which I think people have gotten soo used to being able to do so that anything that dose not do that is "sub-par" and I do not agree with that. But because of its first effect is like number 91 where you would detach 5 OLUs if you could for the greater effect, not being able to do so dose not make it bad, it makes you a better player if you pull it off, which it has its second effect for; is what should be used for mainly unless you have the right hand Requiring a third OLU to manually be added prevents the slippery Slope situation, also sure overlay regen has its niche, but I saw a few official cards that steal OLU, it might become a thing.... However the point about going into heart earth dragon is a good point, I did not want it to be just a monster version RUM, but I will limit it to rank 8 or lower... Or should the number of overlay units + 1 define the level restriction, + 1 because this card becomes a OLU too and the rank of the summoned monster would equal the number of OLUs attached.

... It's like you don't know anything about the game.

 

It's sub-par. Xyz Material reattaching/stealing is, in general, very weak as it requires minusing yourself in a situational manner more often than not.

 

Pulling off the 5 Mat 91 doesn't make you a better player, it makes you someone who surrendered consistency and intelligent deck building for an inconsistent card.

 

Rank 8 and lower doesn't solve the card's issues at all. 4-5 is all it should really be allowed to rank to, and that's still potentially dumb in the future because you'll get a 4 Material Evolzar Laggia.

 

Requiring an extra Xyz Material doesn't prevent a slippery slope as such a card could easily be made and be good, it just hasn't yet.

 

As is, the card is horribly designed and you're not gonna be able to convince me you actually put forethought into it, because it just seems like you wanna make something flashy. Which isn't realistic at all.

[Ziliath]

Right... Cause insulting me is really the way to convince me that it is sub par. Offer a solution or GTFO.

[Blake]

Right... Cause insulting me is really the way to convince me that it is sub par. Offer a solution or GTFO.

I did.

 

Make it Rank 4-5. Maybe put another restriction on it to prevent Laggia with 2 uses.

 

If you don't want to read, and just take things badly, go ahead, but don't say I insulted you and refuse to accept any advise. That's on your head, not mine.

[Ziliath]

... It's like you don't know anything about the game

As is, the card is horribly designed and you're not gonna be able to convince me you actually put forethought into it, because it just seems like you wanna make something flashy. Which isn't realistic at all.

This is what I find insulting, we have a disagreement, that dose NOT mean I know nothing, it is the way it is so players can't just summon it then jump strait to Heart eartH and or similar cards with out Combining other cards which was how the game was originally designed around (Not: 1 card Dose everything and slaps everyone in the room cause its so flashy) , not only that but even if some 1 else did agree that it was sub par that dose not make it unrealistic, it has a similar mechanic to what we would both agree is a sub par card.

You haven't convinced me that laggia with 2 uses is inherently broken, it would be if one can chain summon from this to laggia without a -1 or more to set your self up, but as you said overlay regen/stealing is subpar... Which is why it balances itself in such a way that having laggia with 2uses will not happen 100% of the time.

Wanna bet ile find something else insulting when you reply... Try using neutral language mate.

[Blake]

This is what I find insulting, we have a disagreement, that dose NOT mean I know nothing, it is the way it is so players can't just summon it then jump strait to Heart eartH and or similar cards with out Combining other cards which was how the game was originally designed around (Not: 1 card Dose everything and slaps everyone in the room cause its so flashy) , not only that but even if some 1 else did agree that it was sub par that dose not make it unrealistic, it has a similar mechanic to what we would both agree is a sub par card.

You haven't convinced me that laggia with 2 uses is inherently broken, it would be if one can chain summon from this to laggia without a -1 or more to set your self up, but as you said overlay regen/stealing is subpar... Which is why it balances itself in such a way that having laggia with 2uses will not happen 100% of the time.

Wanna bet ile find something else insulting when you reply... Try using neutral language mate.

If you took it as an insult, that's on you. I said it's "like", not that you don't know anything. You just don't seem to know much about card design.

 

I said making something overly flashy is unrealistic, not being subpar. Use context clues.And callign this card horribly designed isn't insulting, it's fact. Being able to get to rank 8 from rank 4 for simply running a subpar spell is stupidly designed. Using a -1 to defend your deisgn doesn't help your case, either.

 

Laggia's already an unfair card. Giving it two uses for no reason is even more unfair, especially when it's basically a generic 3 Material Rank 4, using 2 monsters and a Spell. Depending on what's released in the future, it can be summoned without being a 3 mat. Being a 3-Material with 2 Solemn Warnings is worth it, almost on par with Shock Master. Only reason it's STILL subpar is because of the fact that it requires a shitty card for now.

 

A major part of card design is designing your card so that a mechanic or submechanic being improved won't break it wide open.

[Ziliath]

Clearly we have a difference of opinion, you can't act if yours is a fact, you clearly were being insulting by attacking the person, that is by definition an insult, so if I'm insulted its on the person using the insult, not the one who is offended....idiot... you also don't understand the intent behind it and for whatever arrogant reason you think I'm lying when I tell you otherwise? You have no basis for that other than "I know this game and this nub dose not" thing is I too can say that, big Fukien whoop, it doesn't solve the disagreement, do I not have to defend my understanding of this game to you...


In any case, to your actual critique, clearly your buthurt over laggia thus your aversion to this design, and no... I don't run the card either, not like you will believe me. But anyone who played a combo to gain an advantage has the advantage... Yugioh 101, having cards inherently require other cards to be good is not bad design, and it would seem to me is you look for cards and perhaps design them to be abused as stand alone "do all" cards

So if I changed it to say either of the following what one would balance it

2 level 4 or more(max 3) monsters. Or


2 level 4 "ninja" monsters
If this card has 3 or more overlay units attached to it you can use this card as the entire Xyz requirement for a rank 8 or lower(min 5) dragon, beast, or beast-warrior Xyz monster(overlay units on this card also become overlay units on the summoned monster). If you Xyz summon this card while your lifepoints are lower than your opponents: you can attach a ninja monster from your hand to this card as an overlay unit. Once per turn a monster with no overlay units can detach overlay units attached to this card.

This version makes it ninja exclusive, a deck I do run, and I use a lot of Xyz with it, the thing is ninjas Xyz levels are 4,7,8 with the version I use, your suggestion of making it restricted to level 5 Xyz monsters make no sense unless you wanted to run monsters that can't be normally summoned in the deck making hem useless and is poor deck design

Insulting my sense of design is retarded when you have no other examples to compare it with.

[Blake]

Clearly we have a difference of opinion, you can't act if yours is a fact, you clearly were being insulting by attacking the person, that is by definition an insult, so if I'm insulted its on the person using the insult, not the one who is offended....idiot... you also don't understand the intent behind it and for whatever arrogant reason you think I'm lying when I tell you otherwise? You have no basis for that other than "I know this game and this nub dose not" thing is I too can say that, big Fukien whoop, it doesn't solve the disagreement, do I not have to defend my understanding of this game to you...

I'm sorry, all I'm seeing here is that you're insulting me, trying to say I'm the antagonist.

And for the record, I'm well known for my card design knowledge around here. It's not arrogant to say your card is badly designed, and if you think it is, grow up.

In any case, to your actual critique, clearly your buthurt over laggia thus your aversion to this design, and no... I don't run the card either, not like you will believe me. But anyone who played a combo to gain an advantage has the advantage... Yugioh 101, having cards inherently require other cards to be good is not bad design, and it would seem to me is you look for cards and perhaps design them to be abused as stand alone "do all" cards

Of course I have an aversion to Laggia's design, but I'm not butthurt over it. If you're going to try and drag me through the mud, please do it in a more professional manner, hm?

Laggia's a walking Solemn Judgment with a laughable summon condition. Making it with, effectively, the same condition as a 3 Material Rank 4 is pretty clearly bad design, especially when you're doubling its usage. It takes away basically the only weakness it has.

What does running a card have to do with good design? If you only run well designed cards, you're gonna lose, a lot. But design in the game being bad doesn't defend bad design here.

So if I changed it to say either of the following what one would balance it

2 level 4 or more(max 3) monsters. Or


2 level 4 "ninja" monsters
If this card has 3 or more overlay units attached to it you can use this card as the entire Xyz requirement for a rank 8 or lower(min 5) dragon, beast, or beast-warrior Xyz monster(overlay units on this card also become overlay units on the summoned monster). If you Xyz summon this card while your lifepoints are lower than your opponents: you can attach a ninja monster from your hand to this card as an overlay unit. Once per turn a monster with no overlay units can detach overlay units attached to this card.

This version makes it ninja exclusive, a deck I do run, and I use a lot of Xyz with it, the thing is ninjas Xyz levels are 4,7,8 with the version I use, your suggestion of making it restricted to level 5 Xyz monsters make no sense unless you wanted to run monsters that can't be normally summoned in the deck making hem useless and is poor deck design

Insulting my sense of design is retarded when you have no other examples to compare it with.

2+ Level 4 is dumb.

2 Level 4 Ninjas doesn't make it better, and if anything, the 5-8 is still a stupid design. Have you read Neo-Galaxy Eyes Photon Dragon? Either of the Hieratic Xyz? Thunder End Dragon?

And while no particularly abusable Beast or Beast Warriors yet exist, that doesn't change the fact that it's a design that's particularly easy to bust.

So, earlier, you told me running combos that lead to some big pay off is good... How is it bad to run a card that pays off for combos by making a card you normally wouldn't? Is it bad to run Cyber Twin Dragon when you're running Cyber Dragon Nova? That's just an inane argument that holds no water and simultaneously contradicts a point you tried to make earlier.

Rank 4-5 makes sense because you're getting a basic evolution off of a ninja; Your variant of Ninjas is not inherently the best variant, and you shouldn't simply say "but it's made to support my variant", which, to my knowledge, isn't even a recognized variant given how you've described it. Meanwhile, Chaos Dragon Ninjas is a somewhat viable variant. Again, have you read Hieratic Dragon King of Atum?

If it was Rank 4 accessible as well, it'd need a further restriction, but even allowing Rank 6 for Dragons is stupidly designed and abusable. Yes, it's got an inferior activation condition, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a sub-mechanic of a mechanic that's constantly being expanded on, which means if you don't take preventative measures, you could make a horribly broken mess for the future.

Flavor's a fine thing to design by, sure, but in what universe is it okay to make a busted card design in exchange for it? You should never, ever put flavor before the integrity and quality of the actual card deign.

I have other examples. I've been in this section, as a moderator or otherwise, for ages.