Because Frogs Need A Proper Boss Monster Other Than The Egyptian Gods [Emperor Frog]

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Emperor Frog (Ten'nogaeru)

WATER/Aqua/Level 12/3000 ATK/2500 DEF

Cannot be Special Summoned, except by its own effect. Requires 3 Level 2 or lower WATER Aqua-Type Tributes to Normal Summon (cannot be Normal Set). During either player's turn, when a Spell/Trap Card or monster effect is activated that targets a card(s) on the field: You can Tribute 1 "Frog" monster, except "Frog the Jam"; negate that activation, and if you do, destroy that card. During your Standby Phase, if this card is in your Graveyard after being Summoned: You can Tribute 1 "Frog" monster you control, except "Frog the Jam", and banish 1 "D.3.S. Frog" from your Extra Deck; Special Summon this card from your Graveyard. You can only control 1 "Emperor Frog".

How about this?

Is this balanced?

[Maeriberii Haan]

I guess it's fine, but the search effect is definitely too wide. I suggest making it a dump 2 frogs to the graveyard if you control a frog monster, or make it search a frog and give it some restrictions. In its current form, this'll be used more in Frognarch/Mermail(?) deck as an engine rather than being a boss.

[Sora1499]

First off, level 12 is downright unrealistic. Change that shit to 8, 9, or 10.

The summoning condition is fair, but also unrealistic, since the deck needs to use Ronintoadins in order to spam that many monsters which the current card can't use as fodder. You could change the conditions to Level 2- Aquas, but we still run into a problem; frogs would rather drop Ladd or summon Caius in most cases.

It being a self-dumping Rota for Aquas and Wetlands is downright silly. Get rid of that shit son.

The next effect is fine.

I don't like the last effect. This turns it into a 3k beater that recurs as much as treeborn in addition to being a Tytannial. How is THAT fair? Get rid of that shit.

Once we strip the card bare of the excess effects, we find a decent card that's workable.

Core Design Fixes:
-Change the summoning condition to 2 Level 2- Aquas, not 3. 2 is fair, 3 is ridiculous.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

I guess it's fine, but the search effect is definitely too wide. I suggest making it a dump 2 frogs to the graveyard if you control a frog monster, or make it search a frog and give it some restrictions. In its current form, this'll be used more in Frognarch/Mermail(?) deck as an engine rather than being a boss.

Changed it to LV2 or lower.

First off, level 12 is downright unrealistic. Change that shit to 8, 9, or 10.

The summoning condition is fair, but also unrealistic, since the deck needs to use Ronintoadins in order to spam that many monsters which the current card can't use as fodder. You could change the conditions to Level 2- Aquas, but we still run into a problem; frogs would rather drop Ladd or summon Caius in most cases.

It being a self-dumping Rota for Aquas and Wetlands is downright silly. Get rid of that shit son.

The next effect is fine.

I don't like the last effect. This turns it into a 3k beater that recurs as much as treeborn in addition to being a Tytannial. How is THAT fair? Get rid of that shit.

Once we strip the card bare of the excess effects, we find a decent card that's workable.

Core Design Fixes:
-Change the summoning condition to 2 Level 2- Aquas, not 3. 2 is fair, 3 is ridiculous.

But...that's the point.
It's a boss monster.
It's supposed to be hard to get out, and once you have it out, it's hard to get it to leave the field.

[Sora1499]

It being a boss monster does not justify it having far too many excess, broken effects. Cards shouldn't be constructs haphazardly slapped together piecemeal, they should be deliberate self-lubricating mini-engines that follow a logical path to achieve a concise goal.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

It being a boss monster does not justify it having far too many excess, broken effects. Cards shouldn't be constructs haphazardly slapped together piecemeal, they should be deliberate self-lubricating mini-engines that follow a logical path to achieve a concise goal.

But Frogs already have an engine.
This capitalizes on said engine, just like the Egyptian God Cards.
Also, you're asking me to remove so much stuff, I think it would be more helpful if you tell me what I should KEEP.

[Sora1499]

Well, considering that it (basically) can't be targeted by card effects, it's already hard to take down. Also, in retrospect, 3 is an ok number of tributes for this card. But I'd suggest making it 2 for summoning it from the hand only.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Well, considering that it (basically) can't be targeted by card effects, it's already hard to take down. Also, in retrospect, 3 is an ok number of tributes for this card. But I'd suggest making it 2 for summoning it from the hand only.

In case you haven't realized, the optimum strategy is:
1. Discard Emperor for Frog or Wetlands.
2. Set Frog Engine to swarm.
3. Twiddle fingers until 3 Frogs show up.
4. SS Emperor from Grave with Tribute effect.
5. ???
6. Profit.
Also, you guys are neglecting something about the revival effect.
You need to banish a D.3.S. Frog from your Extra Deck as well as Tribute a Frog.
I'm asking you to waste valuable Extra Deck space for Fusion Monsters you probably can't Fusion Summon.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="GLaDOS" post="6313647" timestamp="1385875053"]In case you haven't realized, the optimum strategy is:1. Discard Emperor for Frog or Wetlands.2. Set Frog Engine to swarm.3. Twiddle fingers until 3 Frogs show up.4. SS Emperor from Grave with Tribute effect.5. ???6. Profit.[/quote] But with step 1 you're practically setting yourself up for victory by grabbing Swap Frog, which then fills up your grave in like a turn, then the subsequent turn you can drop this thing and win. It's too good, the card interacts with itself way too well. If one card does everything, then what fun is there in running a deck?

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

But with step 1 you're practically setting yourself up for victory by grabbing Swap Frog, which then fills up your grave in like a turn, then the subsequent turn you can drop this thing and win. It's too good, the card interacts with itself way too well. If one card does everything, then what fun is there in running a deck?

Alright.
I'll remove the ROTA effect, make it so it can't be SSed except by its own effect, and it needs 3 Frogs to TS it.
That sounds fair?

[Sora1499]

[quote name="GLaDOS" post="6313651" timestamp="1385875320"]Alright.I'll remove the ROTA effect, make it so it can't be SSed except by its own effect, and it needs 3 Frogs to TS it.That sounds fair?[/quote] Tribute Summons are kinda outdated. You don't need to make it require 3 frogs to Tribute Summon, just keep it as 2 Frogs Tributed to SS from the hand, 3 frogs Tributed to SS it from the Graveyard.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Tribute Summons are kinda outdated. You don't need to make it require 3 frogs to Tribute Summon, just keep it as 2 Frogs Tributed to SS from the hand, 3 frogs Tributed to SS it from the Graveyard.

Considering how fast Frog Engines work, 3 Tributes, and from only the hand, sounds reasonable.
We ARE talking about what would happen if Tytannial and Tyrant Dragon had a squishy bast*rd child.
Also, the Tytannial effect now needs Frogs.