Our place within the universe

[Goose]

The universe is around 13 billion years old.  The Earth itself is only 4.5 billion years old.  That means that for a large majority of history, our planet, the place upon which we all live and die, did not exist.  Moreover, as this video discusses, everything element heavier than lead was forged in the supernova of ancient long dead stars.  Carl Sagan discusses the pale blue dot.  So YCM, I'm asking you how you feel about our place (both physically and temporally) within the universe.

[FTW (For The Wynn)]

Physically? We seem to be pretty insignificant, which is probably a good thing at the moment. We have enough issues to deal with at home that don't need spread throughout the cosmos.

Temporally, we humans are quite insignificant but Earth itself might be somewhat significant. After all, even in terms of 13 billion +, 4.5 billion is no small number.

 

Our significance can probably be judged by our own ignorance. We discover new space phenomena every year, including hundreds of new planets, some with similarities to Earth, and some of these planets may lie right beyond Pluto, for example http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25301-new-dwarf-planet-hints-at-giant-world-far-beyond-pluto.html#.Uzu7VPldWSo

[Kyng]

Until I see proof of "competitors" I feel our presence is the strongest presence in the universe under both clauses. I see no reason to think otherwise as of yet.

[Frunk]

Until I see proof of "competitors" I feel our presence is the strongest presence in the universe under both clauses. I see no reason to think otherwise as of yet.

 

If we're the strongest, that's a sad indictment of the rest of the universe, haha. We are a pretty crap race. Shouldn't be difficult to be better than us.

[Kyng]

If we're the strongest, that's a sad indictment of the rest of the universe, haha. We are a pretty crap race. Shouldn't be difficult to be better than us.

Very valid point, and I'm open to evidence of us being beaten, but as of yet...it has been lacking, so...

[Agro]

If you've been watching the new Cosmos, Neil Tyson offered a theory that basically broke my mind. You see, in black holes, time and space is collapsed. Essentially, within a black hole, a whole new universe could be created that continuously expands due to more and more matter being sucked into the event horizon. Essentially what the theory is getting at is that we could actually be inside a black hole, with the big bang being the creation of that black hole. It's a pretty intriguing concept, albeit unproven. (though they recently found proof of the big bang, so that's something!)

As for most powerful species in the universe, pretty sure insects and bacteria are still kicking our asses here on Earth, so let's not even bother comparing ourselves to aliens.

[Kyng]

As for most powerful species in the universe, pretty sure insects and bacteria are still kicking our asses here on Earth...

Do elaborate your point here, this intrigues me.

[Cin]

I don't think about it, although they tried to cover it in the Total Perspective Vortex (Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy - The Restuarant At The End Of The Universe) , which drove people 'mad' with the perspective of just how tiny you are in the universe. (Great use of Fairy Cake).

 

Bacteria does pretty much own everything (War Of The Worlds)

 

I think it's too much to comprehend just how tiny earth is in the grand scheme of things. Mankind isn't all that important really.

[Night]

Whilst saying we are alone in the universe and that a greater being created us and only us is indeed ignorant. I'm probably the least religious person you'll ever meet, however, to say definitively that we aren't the only beings in the universe is just as ignorant, people seem to forget that.

 

I'd like to think that there are just some things that cannot be explained, and because of said phenomena, it makes the concept more thrilling than the reality.  

[Agro]

Do elaborate your point here, this intrigues me.

Bacteria and insects continue to evolve faster than our means of dealing with them. Especially bacteria, where new strains have quickly become immune to antibiotics and have the possibility of causing an epidemic we can't deal with. Not to mention bacteria can live in a whole lot more places than humans or any mammal, really. (i.e. volcanoes)

Also, there are certainly more of each in the world, if both number and pure volume.

[Kyng]

Bacteria and insects continue to evolve faster than our means of dealing with them. Especially bacteria, where new strains have quickly become immune to antibiotics and have the possibility of causing an epidemic we can't deal with. Not to mention bacteria can live in a whole lot more places than humans or any mammal, really. (i.e. volcanoes)

Also, there are certainly more of each in the world, if both number and pure volume.

Ah, this is an interesting perspective. See, when I come to think of a strongest species, I take a more eclectic approach in that I consider a lot more qualities - for instance, intelligence, influence upon the planet, technological advancement...the list goes on, which is why I hold humans as the supreme being in the universe as of yet.

[Agro]

Yeah, that's the way humans tend to view power. Honestly, I don't like it one bit. It's so... como se dice... arrogant.

Humans as a species can barely even touch bacteria, they as... species...es are virtually invincible, especially compared to us. Consider that climactic shift in temperature– one that happened to the world countless times before our first and short appearance on this Earth began (we're currently in a surprisingly stable period in climate history dating back to the last ice age)– could wipe us out quickly, cleanly, and single handedly. Whereas many MANY strains of Bacteria would adapt and survive it fairly easily.

What's the quote from the new Godzilla trailer? "The folly of man is thinking he is in control of nature."

[Kyng]

Yeah, that's the way humans tend to view power. Honestly, I don't like it one bit. It's so... como se dice... arrogant.

Humans as a species can barely even touch bacteria, they as... species...es are virtually invincible, especially compared to us. Consider that climactic shift in temperature– one that happened to the world countless times before our first and short appearance on this Earth began (we're currently in a surprisingly stable period in climate history dating back to the last ice age)– could wipe us out quickly, cleanly, and single handedly. Whereas many MANY strains of Bacteria would adapt and survive it fairly easily.

What's the quote from the new Godzilla trailer? "The folly of man is thinking he is in control of nature."

Oh, believe me, I know it is arrogant. That's probably why I like it so much...no, scratch that, that is definitely why I like it so much.

In your sense, I see what you mean clearly. In terms of a survival of the fittest ideology, in which the strongest would survive, bacteria would certainly be the best at adapting.

[Agro]

Oh, believe me, I know it is arrogant. That's probably why I like it so much...no, scratch that, that is definitely why I like it so much.

Man, I missed you.

[Yankee]

So far, the human race has been completely irrelevant to the universe. I don't expect much change. 

In the long run on things, nothing really matters. You might make a decision here on Earth, in our time, they will affect people for thousands of years. Eventually, however, time will bury you. That's with just thousands of years here. Imagine that on a scale of billions of years. And the size of the universe. 

Yeah. We're pretty useless. 

To be fair, so is everything. Everything, at best, is just a tiny fraction of a fraction of a fraction of value to the universe. So, I guess we're on par lol

[BehindTheMask]

To be fair, the only real reason bacteria evolves faster than us is that they replicate faster than us. Our evolution is much more slow paced because it takes us ~13 years to become physically able to birth a child. So to get a chance at mutation, it takes us ~13 years + 9 months, compared to the hourly/daily replication of bacteria.

[Goose]

Bugs did rule the world ~550 million years ago but no one can realistically argue that chordates aren't ruling now.  Sure we can't cure all diseases and we can't kill all bugs, but they sure as hell can't kill all of us.

[Cosmic Stencil]

if i may assert my lowly presence within this discussion of which i have became enthralled; returning to the point of "competitors" and other life capable of basic intelligence and similar traits as to what we've seen on earth; there are a fair few known planets in other solar systems with ecosystems similar, or identical to ours, in that Goldilocks zone in terms of stars and with very similar surroundings. But even looking closer to home, Europa, the Jovian moon has extremely similar qualities to ours, underneath all that ice of course, in fact it's one of the only bodies within the solar system with liquid H₂O forming oceans and a high co² and Nitrogen content of the atmosphere. Europa is basically a smaller version of earth, orbiting Jupiter and encased in ice, and given all these conditions, all that is needed is RNA plus solar and electrical energy to start the evolution of bacteria from basic organic compounds (Miller-Urey Experiment shows us this). Given a few million years they'd hit the Cambrian Explosion, and hey presto, the life differentiates exponentially; perhaps even reaching bipedal, opposable-thumbed and large-brained primates we've come to know and sort-of love.

 

I'd bet all the money i'll ever own that we discover complex life on Europa in the next 150 years, thank you for your time

[Goose]

The Miller-Urey experiment just showed that amino acids could be produced by lightening or something to that effect.  Going from amino acids to RNA/DNA and beyond that to form prokaryotes is a huge step and we still aren't sure how that happens.  On a side note, it actually took like over 2 billion years to hit a Cambrian explosion.

[chairman ali]

There is no wrong or right answer here. Since everyone's ideologies, notions, beliefs and psychology is divergent. I may speculate something that another would find unorthodox.

 

I will most likely escort a notion from the philosophy of religion—which I guarantee you that if I do ordain it, a holy war might commence on this website. 

[Frunk]

if i may assert my lowly presence within this discussion of which i have became enthralled; returning to the point of "competitors" and other life capable of basic intelligence and similar traits as to what we've seen on earth; there are a fair few known planets in other solar systems with ecosystems similar, or identical to ours, in that Goldilocks zone in terms of stars and with very similar surroundings. But even looking closer to home, Europa, the Jovian moon has extremely similar qualities to ours, underneath all that ice of course, in fact it's one of the only bodies within the solar system with liquid H₂O forming oceans and a high co² and Nitrogen content of the atmosphere. Europa is basically a smaller version of earth, orbiting Jupiter and encased in ice, and given all these conditions, all that is needed is RNA plus solar and electrical energy to start the evolution of bacteria from basic organic compounds (Miller-Urey Experiment shows us this). Given a few million years they'd hit the Cambrian Explosion, and hey presto, the life differentiates exponentially; perhaps even reaching bipedal, opposable-thumbed and large-brained primates we've come to know and sort-of love.

 

I'd bet all the money i'll ever own that we discover complex life on Europa in the next 150 years, thank you for your time

 

Define life, and define complex life, too.

Simply because the Goldilocks Zone is suitable for Earth and its many forms of life, there is nothing, literally, to suggest that complete different forms of life aren't capable of evolving and existing in places that we would consider inhospitable. Rather, the existence of extremophiles suggests that it's certainly possible.

The rest of your point is spot on, though.

 

 

To be fair, the only real reason bacteria evolves faster than us is that they replicate faster than us. Our evolution is much more slow paced because it takes us ~13 years to become physically able to birth a child. So to get a chance at mutation, it takes us ~13 years + 9 months, compared to the hourly/daily replication of bacteria.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

:S

[Goose]

Define life, and define complex life, too.

Simply because the Goldilocks Zone is suitable for Earth and its many forms of life, there is nothing, literally, to suggest that complete different forms of life aren't capable of evolving and existing in places that we would consider inhospitable. Rather, the existence of extremophiles suggests that it's certainly possible.

The rest of your point is spot on, though.

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

:S

 

The fact that the list of birth mothers under 11 is that short seems to suggest that there is merit to what BTM is saying.

 

Complex life to me is metazoans, but I'm no expert

[Lunar Origins]

I, for one, don't think we're useless at all.  Look at what we've accomplished for ourselves.  Nature has given us this vast universe to play with and make our home.  We just need to figure out how to use it.  I'm an advocate for new frontiers and adventures as a human race, but that's probably the little romantic in me playing off some fantasy.

 

Some day, we may leave our big blue dot only to find that the universe has much, much bigger blue dots.  And I'm okay with that.

[Raine]

Life is a Bethesda game. There's a LOT of shit out there, so just have fun doing stuff for 80 years. The collective action of 7 billion peoples and the cumulative result will take care of themselves because we're greedy, smart f***ers who love explosions, money, and science! 

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Our place in the universe?
We are right next to Mars and Venus in the Milky Way Galaxy. I have neutral feelings towards that.

I'd rather be closer to Uranus.

 

I never really though of our place in the universe as significant past our own planet and maybe a few others nearby.

 

I mean....we exist...but we are such a small speck in the universe.

I have hopes for other life existing. I mean let's be honest, bar religion, why would only Earth, which is SOOOOOO SMALL compared to the whole universe, be the ONLY thing with life/capable of life?