Police officer helps fix child's bicycle.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

http://wtnh.com/2015/04/19/bridgeport-police-officer-stops-to-help-fix-childs-bike/

 

Why can't things like this make the news more often instead of "police shoots somebody" or "police beats somebody"?.

[Wahrheit]

http://wtnh.com/2015/04/19/bridgeport-police-officer-stops-to-help-fix-childs-bike/

 

Why can't things like this make the news more often instead of "police shoots somebody" or "police beats somebody"?.

Because that would be ignoring the fact that people of color (predominantly and disproportionately black people and native americans) face abuse, if not death, on a daily basis.

 

This is a nice article, but it could alternatively be titled "Police Officer Does Job" - this is what the standard for community policing should be, and the fact that some feel it necessary to applaud that should tell you a whole lot.

 

FWIW I came into this thread to go "awww" and stuff, but then you had to go and ask that question.

[evilfusion]

Because there's only so much value (to news outlets) in "something mundane, but kind happens".

 

In fact, the only reason they get media attention is because the good stories become diamonds in the rough. Surrounded by the more popular and vitriolic stories of "horrific violence" and "destruction" and "rioting" that draw upon people's negativity and outrage.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

I agree that this should be the standard of policing but not all cops abuse minorities either.

[Wahrheit]

I agree that this should be the standard of policing but not all cops abuse minorities either.

How do I tell the difference?

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

How do I tell the difference?

 

That's the hard part, sadly.

[Wahrheit]

That's the hard part, sadly.

Do you see how it's problematic to say "not all cops abuse minorities" then? Even if that's the case, the system itself is abusive, and people of color are far more likely to face far more punitive sentences. If they make it to sentencing.

 

You hear chants like "white silence equals violence" (which, as a white person, I agree with) because failing to bring attention to the situation allows it to continue. If you want more bike-fixing news articles, you have to fix the structural issues. This is a systemic problem, not a "bad apples" problem.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

Do you see how it's problematic to say "not all cops abuse minorities" then? Even if that's the case, the system itself is abusive, and people of color are far more likely to face far more punitive sentences. If they make it to sentencing.

 

You hear chants like "white silence equals violence" (which, as a white person, I agree with) because failing to bring attention to the situation allows it to continue. If you want more bike-fixing news articles, you have to fix the structural issues. This is a systemic problem, not a "bad apples" problem.

 

Hm. You do have a point. I have to agree. I think there was some graph that showed African-Americans are more likely to be incarcerated than other races or something like that. No offense to any African-Americans on this forum, btw,

[Wahrheit]

Hm. You do have a point. I have to agree. I think there was some graph that showed African-Americans are more likely to be incarcerated than other races or something like that. No offense to any African-Americans on this forum, btw,

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-a-shooter-his-victim-and-race.html?_r=0

 

Sign up for Kristof's newsletter - you get to read his articles for free each week. You'll learn a lot, I know I do.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-a-shooter-his-victim-and-race.html?_r=0

 

Sign up for Kristof's newsletter - you get to read his articles for free each week. You'll learn a lot, I know I do.

 

The racial issue in this country has been going on for years and likely decades. There is a failure to bring it to attention, as you said, which is bad.

 

As for that article you linked, I mean, shooting someone is pretty bad, but the kid should have gotten at least some chance at life. Instead of being locked up forever.

 

A thread on this issue would actually be really good, btw.

[Wahrheit]

The racial issue in this country has been going on for years and likely decades. There is a failure to bring it to attention, as you said, which is bad.

 

As for that article you linked, I mean, shooting someone is pretty bad, but the kid should have gotten at least some chance at life. Instead of being locked up forever.

 

A thread on this issue would actually be really good, btw.

I disagree. It would amount to a lot of young kids parroting the rhetoric that their (probably white and definitely privileged) parents have been feeding them for years, because they don't know any better. YCM has never really been the place for academic discourse.

 

If you disagree, ask what happened to the Debates forum and who was originally likely to be the mod of it.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

I disagree. It would amount to a lot of young kids parroting the rhetoric that their (probably white and definitely privileged) parents have been feeding them for years, because they don't know any better. YCM has never really been the place for academic discourse.

 

If you disagree, ask what happened to the Debates forum and who was originally likely to be the mod of it.

 

Hm. Good point.

 

Anyway, I think it boils down to this; America needs serious change. Badly.

[Wahrheit]

Hm. Good point.

 

Anyway, I think it boils down to this; America needs serious change. Badly.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

 

Was that supposed to be humor or are you belittling me? I mean, I did state something pretty obvious, but still.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Yes yes we get it Wahrheit bad things happen. You think what Raeg said was obvious? Well take a look at the constant stream of media showing all the negative crap people have to put up with. I'd say everything you said was the height of obviousness.

 

Showing good things is in no way ignoring the bad,

Being outraged about a bad thing is normal of course, but if all you do is point out the negativity that won't do anyone any good. Shoving negative media down people's throats will most likely only come up with a few outcomes.

 

People will respond with "See? See? This is why ___ is bad"

People will get angry and do something stupid

People will give up hope and decide "funk it it's not worth trying"

 

Gotta take the good with the bad and take time to look for positive things. If you show people the right things being done, and praise it, then people are more likely to give a damn when bad sheet happens.

[Wahrheit]

Yes yes we get it Wahrheit bad things happen. You think what Raeg said was obvious? Well take a look at the constant stream of media showing all the negative crap people have to put up with. I'd say everything you said was the height of obviousness.

 

Showing good things is in no way ignoring the bad,

Being outraged about a bad thing is normal of course, but if all you do is point out the negativity that won't do anyone any good. Shoving negative media down people's throats will most likely only come up with a few outcomes.

 

People will respond with "See? See? This is why ___ is bad"

People will get angry and do something stupid

People will give up hope and decide "f*** it it's not worth trying"

 

Gotta take the good with the bad and take time to look for positive things. If you show people the right things being done, and praise it, then people are more likely to give a damn when bad s*** happens.

Excuse me sir, I don't mean to embarrass you, but your privilege is showing - you might want to check that and take care of it before anyone else notices.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Excuse me sir, I don't mean to embarrass you, but your privilege is showing - you might want to check that and take care of it before anyone else notices.

I can clearly see why you were big in the debate section, solid points there m8 ;)

 

But no really I'm not sure what privilege you're talking about, and if you think a little snarky quip like this means much of anything to...anyone, sorry to say it really doesn't.

[evilfusion]

I can clearly see why you were big in the debate section, solid points there m8 ;)

 

But no really I'm not sure what privilege you're talking about, and if you think a little snarky quip like this means much of anything to...anyone, sorry to say it really doesn't.

 

I had to look up the phrase "check your privilege" to get any insight into what he said.

 

Check your privilege is a reminder that the life you were born into comes with privileges that don't apply to all arguments and situations, so that when considering the problems of other people, you should keep in mind these sort of "privileges" and set them aside.

 

For example, being born white means you aren't judged in a variety of ways on the basis of your skin color, positively or negatively, because white skin is widely represented in the media and most areas, without negative stereotypes being the majority viewpoint. Your clothes, attitude, grades, vocabulary, etc don't bring assumptions to the table. A black person wearing tattered clothes, or cursing, or whatever might be seen as a no-good thug, or delinquent, or whatever. White skin is not judged so quickly, rashly, or negatively.

 

Therefore, I imagine he's saying your response is overly optimistic and not grounded in the reality that minorities actually must fear and face from police. Whenever they get pulled over, or a cop stops them for any reason, they have to wonder if they were being profiled. Or if the cop is going to fair. Or if the cop is immediately going to be hostile or aggressive, assuming the person they pulled over is a drug user or has a gun or something else. While this can be a valid concern from the cop's viewpoint, it is likely applied towards minorities significantly more often. Which makes interactions with police extremely risky even if there is no threat.

 

Of course, the problem of saying "Check your privilege" or a similar sentiment is that most people WITH that privilege has no idea what the phrase even means, unless they spend a lot of time around social debate discussions. So using the sentiment without really clearing up the ideal behind it is vague to the point of just shutting off the other side because they don't have the same background to relate.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I had to look up the phrase "check your privilege" to get any insight into what he said.

 

Check your privilege is a reminder that the life you were born into comes with privileges that don't apply to all arguments and situations, so that when considering the problems of other people, you should keep in mind these sort of "privileges" and set them aside.

 

For example, being born white means you aren't judged in a variety of ways on the basis of your skin color, positively or negatively, because white skin is widely represented in the media and most areas, without negative stereotypes being the majority viewpoint. Your clothes, attitude, grades, vocabulary, etc don't bring assumptions to the table. A black person wearing tattered clothes, or cursing, or whatever might be seen as a no-good thug, or delinquent, or whatever. White skin is not judged so quickly, rashly, or negatively.

 

Therefore, I imagine he's saying your response is overly optimistic and not grounded in the reality that minorities actually must fear and face from police. Whenever they get pulled over, or a cop stops them for any reason, they have to wonder if they were being profiled. Or if the cop is going to fair. Or if the cop is immediately going to be hostile or aggressive, assuming the person they pulled over is a drug user or has a gun or something else. While this can be a valid concern from the cop's viewpoint, it is likely applied towards minorities significantly more often. Which makes interactions with police extremely risky even if there is no threat.

 

So basically

He's making assumptions about my life

And totally missing the point.

Perfect.

 

Whatever "privilege" he thinks I have it doesn't change the fact that being just pessimistic won't change anything, if you don't praise the good things that happen nothing will get done.

People love to pretend that being optimistic means you're ignoring the bad stuff, but that's not true in the slightest. it's acknowledging the bad stuff while also knowing good things exist and striving to make those the more common occurrence.

Actually I'll just quote what I said again to point out exactly what I mean.

 

Gotta take the good with the bad and take time to look for positive things. If you show people the right things being done, and praise it, then people are more likely to give a damn when bad s*** happens.

[Wahrheit]

You're assuming that this is a problem of "bad apples" - which is, again, not the case. Furthermore, we shouldn't have to pat police on the back for not killing black people.

 

"You didn't kill any black people today! Good job! Let's write a news article"

 

Really?

 

There needs to be a full restructuring of the system internally with new regulations and accountability on the policy side of things. Public opinion has less to do with feel-good articles and more to do with recognizing that the problems do exist. Contrary to your position, apathy is in fact the enemy of progress, not pessimism. Pessimism is a survival technique for people of color - they need to assume the worst to protect themselves, or they could be the next victim. There is no way to tell the difference between a good cop and one who will shoot you in broad daylight. Let's not victim blame.

 

A frequent battle-cry you may have heard is that "white silence equals violence" - this is why. If you're not fighting the problem, you are allowing it to continue.

[chairman ali]

You're assuming that this is a problem of "bad apples" - which is, again, not the case. Furthermore, we shouldn't have to pat police on the back for not killing black people.

 

"You didn't kill any black people today! Good job! Let's write a news article"

 

Really?

 

There needs to be a full restructuring of the system internally with new regulations and accountability on the policy side of things. Public opinion has less to do with feel-good articles and more to do with recognizing that the problems do exist. Contrary to your position, apathy is in fact the enemy of progress, not pessimism. Pessimism is a survival technique for people of color - they need to assume the worst to protect themselves, or they could be the next victim. There is no way to tell the difference between a good cop and one who will shoot you in broad daylight. Let's not victim blame.

 

A frequent battle-cry you may have heard is that "white silence equals violence" - this is why. If you're not fighting the problem, you are allowing it to continue.

 

 

you're a funny guy. You actually think your news gives a damn about whether a black man is killed by the police or a white man shoots a black church or whatever?

 

it seems to me that whenever someone from ISIS goes and beheads one westerner the whole western world goes crazy and the news doesn't shut up about it. But when an ISIS member suicide bombs himself in the middle east, inside a masjid, whilst muslims are praying, your news is all hush hush about it. They want that Islamophobic thinking to prevail in the west. They don't want to show that ISIS are really just a bunch of sick bastards that enjoy killing people.

 

give me a break.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

You're assuming that this is a problem of "bad apples" - which is, again, not the case. Furthermore, we shouldn't have to pat police on the back for not killing black people.

 

"You didn't kill any black people today! Good job! Let's write a news article"

 

Really?

 

There needs to be a full restructuring of the system internally with new regulations and accountability on the policy side of things. Public opinion has less to do with feel-good articles and more to do with recognizing that the problems do exist. Contrary to your position, apathy is in fact the enemy of progress, not pessimism. Pessimism is a survival technique for people of color - they need to assume the worst to protect themselves, or they could be the next victim. There is no way to tell the difference between a good cop and one who will shoot you in broad daylight. Let's not victim blame.

 

A frequent battle-cry you may have heard is that "white silence equals violence" - this is why. If you're not fighting the problem, you are allowing it to continue.

I never said anything about bad apples, if you mean it's a case of parts of the police force are bad then yeah that's obviously the case.

 

And your specific words there are obviously an attempt to push down the idea by using extremes, there's no reason to do such a thing. But to expand upon that, of course people should be rewarded for doing the right thing, even if it is obviously the right thing or just their job. Because it hurts no one to praise positive behavior and it at least shows people that yeah there are people doing the right thing, this is why all this bad s*** is especially bad.

 

I wasn't victim blaming in the slightest, there you go again using certain words that make my ideas sound worse than they are. I'm also not saying people don't need to be held accountable for the bad things they do.

However JUST SHOWING

That's the big part so I'm gonna say it again. JUST SHOWING the negative side isn't going to help. People already are bombarded by the negative, and every time people say "Yeah this is horrible" but then they do nothing really. I would say that if pessimism and just showing negative isn't doing what needs to be done, we need to try and look at things in other ways.

 

You don't need to fight the problem by just showing the problem. In fact just showing the problem makes it less likely in some cases to solve it.

For instance, and this is a slight detour but bare with me, if someone has a list of things they want to do. Simply by telling people "Hey this is what I'm going to do" has proven in many people to decrease desire to do it.

That is because people are programmed to get the feeling of satisfaction from merely talking about their plans.

 

Similar idea here. People show the negative stuff, or reply to a negative article, and they think "Well I did my part" they might not realize they are thinking this but it's a thing people do. And then they don't work towards changing it.

 

So I would argue that all this negative and shock news about the things that bad cops do could actually be harming the cause.

 

I don't think we should ignore it, of course not, I'm not saying that. I am saying we have to pay attention to both sides if we want to move forward.

I would agree that changes need to be made, but as you pointed out earlier that's fairly obvious that things need to change. So I didn't mention it specifically.

 

Edit: And Ali makes a good point there. There's much more going on in the world that is ignored, so if you try and say that these certain things need to be focused on, it'll always end up pushing SOMEthing aside. You can't really get where you need to be with this line of thinking.

[Dad]

you're a funny guy. You actually think your news gives a damn about whether a black man is killed by the police or a white man shoots a black church or whatever?

 

it seems to me that whenever someone from ISIS goes and beheads one westerner the whole western world goes crazy and the news doesn't shut up about it. But when an ISIS member suicide bombs himself in the middle east, inside a masjid, whilst muslims are praying, your news is all hush hush about it. They want that Islamophobic thinking to prevail in the west. They don't want to show that ISIS are really just a bunch of sick bastards that enjoy killing people.

 

give me a break.

 

I never said anything about bad apples, if you mean it's a case of parts of the police force are bad then yeah that's obviously the case.

 

And your specific words there are obviously an attempt to push down the idea by using extremes, there's no reason to do such a thing. But to expand upon that, of course people should be rewarded for doing the right thing, even if it is obviously the right thing or just their job. Because it hurts no one to praise positive behavior and it at least shows people that yeah there are people doing the right thing, this is why all this bad s*** is especially bad.

 

I wasn't victim blaming in the slightest, there you go again using certain words that make my ideas sound worse than they are. I'm also not saying people don't need to be held accountable for the bad things they do.

However JUST SHOWING

That's the big part so I'm gonna say it again. JUST SHOWING the negative side isn't going to help. People already are bombarded by the negative, and every time people say "Yeah this is horrible" but then they do nothing really. I would say that if pessimism and just showing negative isn't doing what needs to be done, we need to try and look at things in other ways.

 

You don't need to fight the problem by just showing the problem. In fact just showing the problem makes it less likely in some cases to solve it.

For instance, and this is a slight detour but bare with me, if someone has a list of things they want to do. Simply by telling people "Hey this is what I'm going to do" has proven in many people to decrease desire to do it.

That is because people are programmed to get the feeling of satisfaction from merely talking about their plans.

 

Similar idea here. People show the negative stuff, or reply to a negative article, and they think "Well I did my part" they might not realize they are thinking this but it's a thing people do. And then they don't work towards changing it.

 

So I would argue that all this negative and shock news about the things that bad cops do could actually be harming the cause.

 

I don't think we should ignore it, of course not, I'm not saying that. I am saying we have to pay attention to both sides if we want to move forward.

I would agree that changes need to be made, but as you pointed out earlier that's fairly obvious that things need to change. So I didn't mention it specifically.

 

Edit: And Ali makes a good point there. There's much more going on in the world that is ignored, so if you try and say that these certain things need to be focused on, it'll always end up pushing SOMEthing aside. You can't really get where you need to be with this line of thinking.

 

This is the line of thinking that fucks all of us over.  Because we're focusing on one type of person.  One type of tragedy.  The reality is bastards, we're all suffering.  I agree, our news stations and media are sheet, overhyping sheet and underhyping sheet.  But saying one suffering is insignificant to another or should be dismissed because "oh well this happened on the other side of the globe" is funked up.

 

Everything should be fixed.  Every problem should be addressed everywhere.  But we aren't superheroes.  We're human beings.  And instead of fighting among ourselves and saying "well you're wrong because your're forgetting about this", we should be banding together to be rid of these fucks.  We should be addressing ISIS as a whole, not just when they behead a random journalist (rest their souls).  We should be addressing police corruption when they shoot a brother in the back or a white boy in the head during a stop.  We should be kicking corrupt politicians who stick our money in their pockets so they can go skiing in the funking Alps.  

 

We should be praising those cops who aren't full of sheet and actually put out the time and effort to protect the community without being bigoted or close minded.  We should show love to those people giving back.  We should do both.  Not one or the funking other.  Stop separating yourselves and trying to make someone else look less important because you're suffering. 

[Tourmaline]

There's really no point in trying to talk to people far inferior besides utility/manipulation, Wahrheit.

 

Mindsets proposed in this topic are particularly what result in stasis.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

There's really no point in trying to talk to people far inferior besides utility/manipulation, Wahrheit.

 

Mindsets proposed in this topic are particularly what result in stasis.

I'm just gonna tell you right now that's bullshit. I'm getting tired of this crap. I used to think you were more intelligent but I've come to realize you actually know far less than you think. You might know some good terminology and philosophy but you've proven to me again and again you often don't understand about how the world and people really work.

 

I agree with some of the things Wahrheit has said, and if he reads this I would like to make sure he knows it's not specifically towards him.

 

But please stop commenting just to say that you know better than everyone else and that they just don't understand. You claim to not care but you sure do care to constantly claim superiority without enough real ideas to back this up.

You are right in many things, and you have some interesting ideas, but when 90% of your words tend to be some form of "I am smarter" without anything else it doesn't really...mean anything.

 

It baffles me that you seem to think the mindset of "We need to fix things but you gotta look at more than just one aspect" is in any way "resulting in stasis"