darkwolf777 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 It sucks when cards aren't out in the TCG so official rulings can't be made. Thanks though, I thought Gorz would be able to SS itself. The effect of Gorz that summons itself activates in the hand. The effect of Gorz which Inflicts Damage/Summons a Token activates on the field. You can use it to stop that part at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Quick question(s) for darkwolf now. This came up last night and drove me crazy. If Mask Change is used and targets a face-up "HERO", and Book of Moon is chained to flip the HERO facedown, does Mask Change still send it and Summon? My hunch is no, as the HERO is now facedown and is not a valid target for Mask Change (which specifies "faceup HERO"). Similar and yet painfully related, if Ninjitsu Art of Super Transformation is used (which targets 2 faceup monsters, one being a Ninja you control, and a monster your opponent controls) and Book of Moon flips one of the targets facedown, the other target would still be sent and SS an appropriate Leveled monster, correct? According to the Wiki ruling, Super will still send the remaining target if one of them left the Field. For all intents and purposes, would an invalidated target fall under this same ruling? If the Mask Change ruling is correct, how or why does this differ from Scrapstorm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Chain Disappearance in the Damage Step? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Quick question(s) for darkwolf now. This came up last night and drove me crazy. If Mask Change is used and targets a face-up "HERO", and Book of Moon is chained to flip the HERO facedown, does Mask Change still send it and Summon? My hunch is no, as the HERO is now facedown and is not a valid target for Mask Change (which specifies "faceup HERO"). Similar and yet painfully related, if Ninjitsu Art of Super Transformation is used (which targets 2 faceup monsters, one being a Ninja you control, and a monster your opponent controls) and Book of Moon flips one of the targets facedown, the other target would still be sent and SS an appropriate Leveled monster, correct? According to the Wiki ruling, Super will still send the remaining target if one of them left the Field. For all intents and purposes, would an invalidated target fall under this same ruling? If the Mask Change ruling is correct, how or why does this differ from Scrapstorm? Tried to look and compare some things, its rather annoying to try and piece this together o.x Examples from side A: Scrapstorm states to Target 1 "Scrap" monster. it states to "destroy the selected monster". As ruled, if the targeted Scrap is flipped face-down, it is still destroyed. TG1-EM1 states to "Target 1 TG monster and 1 monster the opponent controls.". The effect is to "Switch control of those monsters". I believe the ruling for this is that if the T.G. monster is face-down, both monsters are still swapped. Scrap Dragon targets 2 cards on the field. The effect states to "Destroy them.". Even if one target is missing, the other is still destroyed. Examples from Side B: Chaos Sorcerer's current text states to target 1 face-up monster. The effect says to "banish that target.". Flipping the target face-down causes Chaos Sorcerer's effect to fail. Offering to the Snake Deity states to target 1 Reptile and 2 cards the opponent controls. The effects states to "destroy all three targets". Flipping the Reptile Face-down or removing one of the targets from the field completely nullifies the effect. D. Prison states to "Target the attacking monster." The effect is to "Banish that target." If the monster is no longer an attacking monster, it is not banished. From the look of it, as cards are being written nowadays, they tend to reference the "targets" as part of their effects if those targets must be correct during resolution, as you can see with D. Prison, Offering, and Chaos Sorcerer in Side B. The Side A cards do not reference the targets in their effects, and passively tries to "affect them", rather than as "targets" but as anything else ("Those monsters", "The selected card", etc). Considering this: Mask Change states to target 1 "HERO" monster. The effect says to "send it to the Graveyard" rather than "Send the target to the Graveyard". Based on this, The face-down HERO monster will still be sent to the Graveyard for Mask Change. Ninjitsu Art of Super-Transformation targets 2 monsters, 1 face-up Ninja and 1 face-up monster the opponent controls. The effect "Sends them to the Graveyard" rather than "Send the targets to the Graveyard". Based on this, Ninjitsu Art of Super-Transformation will still send the targeted cards even if they are face-down and even if one is removed from the field, the other will still be sent. Chain Disappearance in the Damage Step? You cannot activate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 So Mask Change would work, based on these examples? Interesting. So if a card that targets mentions "the target", the target must still be valid at resolution, otherwise it fails. But if it simply mentions the target as an "it" or "them", it will resolve the rest of the effect (as much as possible based on effects or specification of targets) even if one or more of the targets disappear or is invalidated. That's really weird, but so long as they make that particular choice of words consistent with the rulings, I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Has konami stated that your side and main deck have to have the same sleeves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sage Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Does Snap Dragon miss the timing if it is tributed from the hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Has konami stated that your side and main deck have to have the same sleeves? Side deck? I guess no, if you swap the cards around. My regionals certainly allowed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wingbeat of Giant Dragon on my monster. 1) can I even activate it on an Xyz2) if they chain book, compulse, w/e, it still heavy storms the field, yes? And does the monster still bounce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wingbeat of Giant Dragon on my monster. 1) can I even activate it on an Xyz2) if they chain book, compulse, w/e, it still heavy storms the field, yes? And does the monster still bounce? 1) No, of course not. Unless Xyz abruptly started playing by the Level system, rather than explicitly using Ranks and being immune by all Level-related cards. 2) The OCG rulings say you cannot. Wingbeat does not target, and you may not return a facedown monster. You must return a Dragon to do the S/T destruction. The TCG rulings (by Upperdeck) claims it does target. However, it does say that if the monster is flipped down or removed from the Field, it is not returned to the hand and nothing is destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sage Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Does Snap Dragon miss the timing if it is tributed from the hand?Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Anyone? I didnt answer because I didn't recognize the card and didn't have time to check DN. It's a mandatory effect. It wont miss the timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sage Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 I didnt answer because I didn't recognize the card and didn't have time to check DN. It's a mandatory effect. It wont miss the timing.Oh, sorry >.<Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Just to tack on, tributing from the hand and from the field is in no way different other than the location :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 True. Snap Dragon is also like Dandylion, in that it activates no matter where it came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderVolt Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 If i control a Photon Streak Bouncer and my opponent activates the effect of Card Car D, Card Car D removes him self from the field at activation and thus Streak Bouncer is unable to stop it correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 If i control a Photon Streak Bouncer and my opponent activates the effect of Card Car D, Card Car D removes him self from the field at activation and thus Streak Bouncer is unable to stop it correct?PSB doesn't say anything about the monster having to be face-up, just that a monster your opponent controls has to activate an effect. So it does work. It doesn't work with cards like Plaguespreader because your opponent doesn't actually control it when the effect activates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderVolt Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 PSB doesn't say anything about the monster having to be face-up, just that a monster your opponent controls has to activate an effect. So it does work. It doesn't work with cards like Plaguespreader because your opponent doesn't actually control it when the effect activates. Ahh i see. Aright i was unsure about that. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master White Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Is Mirror force considered targeting a card? Just curios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master White Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Dang it; i wish I knew that about 10 minutes ago...So, if its not targeting, what is it considered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 It's like Dark Hole and Torrential Tribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master White Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 @Welche: So, if a card has this clause: "This card cannot be targeted by your opponents card(s) effects". Then mirror force can still work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wave_Sine Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Yes. Because Mirror Force does not target, it ignores effects that don't allow targeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master White Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thanks both: I guess thats what I get for not dueling for a almost 2 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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