Coffee Black Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 For evilfusion's question i'll take a best guess; i could easily be wrong. While the virus cards are in eff, i don't really think u can chain to them since it is the resolution of their effects. So i don't think even quick plays could be used. Can somebody give me a good explanation as to why Fusion Substitutes can't be use for Contact Fusions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Can somebody give me a good explanation as to why Fusion Substitutes can't be use for Contact Fusions? Certainly. A Contact Fusion, strictly speaking, is not a Fusion Summon. Only monsters with the name of the Fusion Materials can be used for a Contact Fusion (such as Prisma, Phantom of Chaos, Hero Mask). Fusion Substitutes do not actually take the name of the Fusion Material they are replacing, which is why they cannot be used for Fusions that state they have to use the mentioned Fusion Materials (Cyber Dragon fusions, Rainbow Neos, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Black Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 So even though most people use the term Contact Fusion, it's not actually fusing!? How stupid is that? I mean look at Chimeratech Fortress Dragon. The last sentence of the card uses the term "Fusion Material Monsters", and yet wasn't fusion summoned. WTF Konami? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 So even though most people use the term Contact Fusion, it's not actually fusing!? How stupid is that? I mean look at Chimeratech Fortress Dragon. The last sentence of the card uses the term "Fusion Material Monsters", and yet wasn't fusion summoned. WTF Konami? It's not a Fusion Summon for the purposes of cards that specifically mention Fusion Summons, such as Fusion Recovery or Non-Fusion Area. It is still Summoning a Fusion Monster, and the method requires Fusion Material Monsters. Despite not being a Fusion Summon, it is still considered to have been properly Summoned (as Contact Fusions have the Summoning method written on the card), so you can use Monster Reborn on a successfully Contact Fused monster. The reason Fusion Substitutes cannot be used if because unlike Fusion cards like Polymerization, which say to send the Fusion Materials from hand/field/etc to wherever and Fusion Summon, Contact Fusions have a specific method of Summoning. Gladiator Beast Gyzarus says "This monster can only be Special Summoned from the Extra Deck by returning the above monsters you control to the Deck". Bestiari and the other Glad are considered its Fusion Materials, but Gyzarus said "the above monsters", not "its Fusion Materials". King of the Swamp does not change its name to Gladiator Beast Bestiari, so it is not valid to be returned to the deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDDRodrigo Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 And again evilfusion with a brilliant explanation. Seriously, why people praise funny posts instead of useful ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Furthermore, all Contact Fusions state that their method involves "the above cards" in regards to their Fusion Materials. They only use cards that fulfill the name requirements/Type requirements. Fusion Substitutes don't alter their name or Type when substituted, so they cannot be substituted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Black Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I can still barley wrap my mind around this. OK, so yugioh is a very technical game to the point that minor differences in words can mean a huge difference, i get that. You can summon a Fusion Monster by it's "special summoning condition" rather than actually using the Fusion Summon method (which only means if a card specifically states fusion summoning something), and since it's a fusion monster you need fusion material. So unnecessarily complicated... Honestly, Contact Fusion should just be treated as another type of fusion summon rather than just some different summoning condition altogether. Anyways, evifusion ur a genius for making sense of this f***ing game lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 It's not quite that complicated. Fusion Monsters are Special Summoned from the Extra Deck by using a Fusion card, such as Polymerization, and sending the Fusion Materials listed on the Fusion Monster from your hand or field to the Graveyard, as stated on Polymerization itself. Some Fusion cards or Monsters are more specific. Dark Fusion only works with Fiend-Type Fusion Monsters, and the Evil Hero Fusions (all Fiends) require Dark Fusion. Miracle Fusion works with Elemental HERO Fusion Monsters, but can use the Field or the Graveyard when banishing the Fusion Materials. The weakness of Fusion Monsters tended to be how many cards had to be invested into the Summon. Usually it was Polymerization and 2 or more Fusion Materials. The first Contact Fusions were the XYZ series involving X Head Cannon, Y Dragon Head, and Z Metal Tank. You did not need a Fusion card to Summon these monsters, but you still needed the listed Fusion Monsters. To compensate for no longer needing the Spell card, you had to banish the monsters from the Field. The more "official" term of "Contact Fusion" (the anime did it) came from the Neos Fusions. Like the XYZ Fusions, you didn't need a Fusion card for them. Instead, you had to return the listed Fusion Materials from your Field to your Deck. Gladiator Beast Fusions also followed this method, which fit well with their "tag-out" style of play. It should be noted that Contact Fusions were not literally considered Fusion Summons. In a purely technical aspect, they are Semi-Nomis that are Summoned from the Extra Deck and are Fusion Monsters for the effects of Fusion Weapon, etc. Fusions are usually Semi-Nomi by default anyway, so there's no real conflict with Monster Reborn, etc (although the XYZ Fusions state they can't be SSed from the Graveyard). There are other ways to Summon a Fusion Monster that also isn't a Fusion Summon, such as Metamorphosis or Magical Scientist. Contact Fusions cannot be Special Summoned in this way, because they can only be Special Summoned by their specific method, and monsters that ARE Summoned by that type of Effect were not properly Fusion Summoned and cannot be SSed by other means afterwards. The same rule has carried over to Synchros and inevitably, Xyz. The only Fusion Monster(s) in existence that do not involve Fusion Materials are the NEX Spacians. I have no idea why those were made into Fusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 The only Fusion Monster(s) in existence that do not involve Fusion Materials are the NEX Spacians. I have no idea why those were made into Fusions. The Masked HEROs don't have Fusion Material either. They were designed that way so that they wouldn't take up space in the main deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceDorago Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Wait, does the wording on Rescue rabbit make it so that if I use it, go into Leviair, and SS it back, I can't use it's effect again? Or it it like Phalanx where if it comes back a second time, it can still use its effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurtleOnceCalledGod Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Since it says "The effect of "Rescue Rabbit" can only be activated once per turn" you cannot use it more than once per turn. This makes it limit-worthy instead of banworthy like Rescue Cat was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Wait, does the wording on Rescue rabbit make it so that if I use it, go into Leviair, and SS it back, I can't use it's effect again? Or it it like Phalanx where if it comes back a second time, it can still use its effect? Because the card is specifically named, all copies of that monster can only be used once throughout the turn, even if you change the name with Hero Mask, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sage Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 A hypothetical effect:"If this card is discarded for a card effect: Inflict 800 points of damage to your opponent"If multiple cards with this effect would be discarded (by e.g. Hand Destruction, would it accumulate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Yes. They would all activate and chain together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Except not for Hand Destruction because it doesn't discard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sage Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I beg your pardon, I meant Card destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Yup, you're good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hypothetical effect wording:If I wanted to word something where it couldn't go to the graveyard normally, but could go to grave if Dimensional fissure or Macro cosmos was on the field, what Would I word it as? And while I'm here, Would Birdman stay removed if removed by DD sprite and similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hypothetical effect wording:If I wanted to word something where it couldn't go to the graveyard normally, but could go to grave if Dimensional fissure or Macro cosmos was on the field, what Would I word it as?No clue. Good luck on that one. And while I'm here, Would Birdman stay removed if removed by DD sprite and similar?No because D.D. Sprite removed it in the first place, then summons it since it's still removed. If D.D. Sprite tributed it, then it wouldn't work. Fusion should probably give his opinion on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hypothetical effect wording:If I wanted to word something where it couldn't go to the graveyard normally, but could go to grave if Dimensional fissure or Macro cosmos was on the field, what Would I word it as? And while I'm here, Would Birdman stay removed if removed by DD sprite and similar? ...you want to do what? Well, for banishing it instead of the Graveyard: "If this card would be sent to the Graveyard, banish it instead." The second part...what exactly do you want it to do? That if D-Fissure, Banisher of the Light/Radiance, or Macro Cosmos is active, the card disregards both them and its own effect and instead goes to the Graveyard? I don't even think there IS a way to do that without being needlessly wordy and confusing. The ruling for DD Sprite: If you Special Summon Plaguespreader Zombie using its effect and then remove it to Special Summon D. D. Sprite, your Plaguespreader Zombie will not return during the next Standby Phase since it is considered removed from play by its own effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 ...curses, foiled again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 ...you want to do what? Well, for banishing it instead of the Graveyard: "If this card would be sent to the Graveyard, banish it instead." The second part...what exactly do you want it to do? That if D-Fissure, Banisher of the Light/Radiance, or Macro Cosmos is active, the card disregards both them and its own effect and instead goes to the Graveyard? I don't even think there IS a way to do that without being needlessly wordy and confusing.As in, It can't be sent to the graveyard and It can be banished normally, but I want it so things like Fissure would still banish them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Fissure only applies to monsters that would be sent to the Graveyard. Just using the effect of "banish this card instead of sending it to the Graveyard" would result in it being banished regardless of whether Fissure is in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Aw...:(I'll try and think of something. "If this card is sent to the graveyard, If It would not be banished by a card effect, it is not."Would that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 No, that makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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