Guest JoshIcy Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 What I mean by "you view on Universal Truth (UT)" is whether or not if you believe that such thing exists. I suppose' date=' I should have probably defined it first. Universal Truth - A universal truth is a statement/claim that can be ascertained to be either true or false. Such a universal truth retains its status as true or false, regardless of the personal opinions and beliefs of an individual. [Definition from another site.'] Provide valid reasons to your opinions. Discuss.^:Excerpt from the thread starter of a Debate... lol I used to think about this A LOT. The more I thought about it the more the subject of neutrality came to show itself. As such truth has always been what is perceived by another and accepted by the masses. This is evident in religion and various cultures. Someone can firmly stand their ground and show that "God does exist and I dont need physical evidence". And they will stand by that until they die. Does that not make it a truth in every sense of the word? Up until the time of Christ many people were Jewish and believed in the way of Moses etc. That was their truth and still is.... I believe that People show sleep a minimum of 8hrs at night' date=' and make the time prior to it. That is my truth.... Universal Truth simply means what is accepted by those who found their truth and to that end it is a very vague but vivid ideal. As truth cannot be defined regardless, unless everyone believes the same thing. Which to this day is EXTREMELY unlikely.... I say it does but it doesnt.. [if that makes sense with my above explanation']... Devils Advocate etc anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Well, there is two things about this argument that make it hard to answer. 1. There is no objective purpose, just subjective ones.2. The Quantum Theory can prove viewpoints true based on the nature of physics. If The Quantum Theory is found to be true, then many, many different philosophers "opinions" could be changed from opinion to either fact or fiction. <3 Quantums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoshIcy Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Well' date=' there is two things about this argument that make it hard to answer. [b']1. There is no objective purpose, just subjective ones.[/b]2. The Quantum Theory can prove viewpoints true based on the nature of physics. If The Quantum Theory is found to be true, then many, many different philosophers "opinions" could be changed from opinion to either fact or fiction. <3 Quantums. A skilled debater can create ground from that. Its a different type of debate. Thus is why I had posted it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Well' date=' there is two things about this argument that make it hard to answer. [b']1. There is no objective purpose, just subjective ones.[/b]2. The Quantum Theory can prove viewpoints true based on the nature of physics. If The Quantum Theory is found to be true, then many, many different philosophers "opinions" could be changed from opinion to either fact or fiction. <3 Quantums. A skilled debater can create ground from that. Its a different type of debate. Thus is why I had posted it... But then they would be false, and just spewing bullshit. Hearing that argument would sound cool, but it would not be any bit truthful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterOfMagicians Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Universal Truths are tangible things. Things that can be grasped, seen, and proven. Religion is not one of those things, neither is human law, nor religious law. What is viewed as right in one persons eyes may not be right in anothers. Mankind gets their basis of what right and wrong is based off of their religious background. Since religions cannot be proven as universal truths, neither can the sense of right and wrong, in which case leads back to my statement of universal truths are tangible things that can be grasped, seen and proven. The sun is a molten ball of gases burning billions of miles away is a universal truth. Whether or not you think it is gas or not, is beside the point. It has been proven to be gases. A religious fanatical believing to their dying breath does not make that religion, nor any religious figures, universal truths. It can even be argued that after we die and our bodies are completely broken down, we are no longer universal truths. There is nothing to PROVE that we were here. Written documentation, even with our signatures on it, is not enough anymore because it cannot be tangibly proven that we were there to sign it. Puts a whole new level on things doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldWolf Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I don't even whant to know because some things are beter left of unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoshIcy Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 1.--Debate - a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.[Definition from dictionary.com] 2.--truths - the state or character of being true.[Definition from dictionary.com] 3.--falsity - the quality or condition of being false; incorrectness; untruthfulness; treachery. [Definition from dictionary.com] My apologies if I don't sound "formal". -- "Universal Truths are tangible things. Things that can be grasped' date=' seen, and proven." 1.--grasped - To show eager and prompt willingness or acceptance.[Definition from dictionary.com'] 2.--tangible - capable of being touched; discernible by the touch; material or substantial. [Definition from dictionary.com] 3.--seen - to perceive with the eyes; look at. [Definition from dictionary.com] 4.--proven - to establish the truth or genuineness of, as by evidence or argument.[Definition from dictionary.com] Universal Truth doesn't have to be seen, proven, or grasped. It's a state of absolute TRUTH OR FALSITY. It's a concept where one thing has to be either true or false. That statement doesn't follow the definition of Universal Truth. "Religion is not one of those things, neither is human law, nor religious law." I concur. Your previous statement contradicts this concept. Religion CAN BE PROVEN WRONG OR RIGHT. I.g., the concept of God and Satan can be proven right or wrong through death. If one person, soul or whatever you want to call it, experiences that moment, the ideal of its existence is proven right or wrong. So religion falls under the concept of Universal Truth, even though it seems like you don't fully understand the concept of Universal Truth. "What is viewed as right in one persons eyes may not be right in anothers." FALSE. It doesn't matter on the preference of the viewer. Something id either right or wrong. I.g. If there is an apple on top of the table. There either is or isn't an apple on top of the table. Correct? It's either true or false. "Mankind gets their basis of what right and wrong is based off of their religious background. Since religions cannot be proven as universal truths, neither can the sense of right and wrong, in which case leads back to my statement of universal truths are tangible things that can be grasped, seen and proven." FALSE. I've already proven that your definition of Universal Truth is incorrect. And also proven that religion can be proved right or wrong, with your own definition. "The sun is a molten ball of gases burning billions of miles away is a universal truth. Whether or not you think it is gas or not, is beside the point. It has been proven to be gases." ... =/ That's a irrelevant fact to your debating side. "A religious fanatical believing to their dying breath does not make that religion, nor any religious figures, universal truths." FALSE. Rebutted already. "It can even be argued that after we die and our bodies are completely broken down, we are no longer universal truths. There is nothing to PROVE that we were here. Written documentation, even with our signatures on it, is not enough anymore because it cannot be tangibly proven that we were there to sign it. Puts a whole new level on things doesn't it? " ... Wow... It is a concept where something is either CORRECT OR INCORRECT. Your existence is either FALSE OR TRUE. UNIVERSAL TRUTH IS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH OR AN ABSOLUTE FALSITY THAT IS EXCEPTED TO A UNIVERSAL DEGREE, NOT JUST ON EARTH OR THE PEOPLE ON IT. NOTHING HAS TO BE PROVEN. YOU ARE EITHER HERE OR NOT. That simple. (Also, this really temps me to disprove your existence. And even if I did, it is either true or false. Hm... that concept sounds familiar, doesn't it?) -- "I don't even whant to know because some things are beter left of unknown." ...Uh... that's really nice to know. But I don't think you understand the concept of Universal Truth. It's not fate, reading the future, or any of that. It's just a concept of an agreement on a universal degree, that everything is either true or false. -- "1. There is no objective purpose, just subjective ones." My apologies. I didn't open this debate in a correct format or at least explained why I created it using this format. I wanted to first see how others would respond before I gave any of my opinions. Also, seeing as people would argue to the side that they think more towards to their belief rather than debate, I thought using a format where you just ask a question that focuses on the responses and rebutting towards responses would make this a more of a "debate". Also, just giving my opinion head on feels more like a rant to me. And there is a objective, as Icyblue gave out his opinion towards his opinion. You can prove him wrong or right. So... Icyblue's response was kind of not worth reading... xD "2. The Quantum Theory can prove viewpoints true based on the nature of physics. If The Quantum Theory is found to be true, then many, many different philosophers "opinions" could be changed from opinion to either fact or fiction. <3 Quantums." It'd be great if you'd share what "Quantum Theory" means. =/ If there aren't any definitions, it can be said that you're throwing out random facts. I'm not doubting your statement, but I'd just like to know what "Quantum Theory" is. xD -- That should sum this up. For now. (:^Original Thread Starter [C h e c k m a t e]'s response to this thread so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=quantum+theory&search_type=&aq=f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntar! Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 I went to Static's link on Quantums, and they really just messed up my head... Even the one for dummies. >.> The Universal Truth in itself is explained in itself.. if you use it.. What more is to this debate? Other than saying 'yey' or 'ney'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoshIcy Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Absolutes or just concepts... Its really ethical and to a degree emotional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 *removed* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoshIcy Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 *removed for understanding* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Acknowledged, just remove my quote and say "*removed*." Fair game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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