God in the Universe?

[Guest JoshIcy]

[align=center]Energy is a substance that cannot be created nor destroyed. Yet there is an infinite supply. In addition, everything else in the universe requires at least some form of this energy in order to even do anything. This may include time itself, due to that it really is only a sense of progression and without that time likely wouldnt exist.

 

Now I ask. Knowing this could Energy be considered a god of sorts? Explain your opinion and keep away from the religious ideals(to a minimum as I know it is unavoidable) or dont post.[/align]

[Static]

Ha, one more mind one step closer to enlightenment. :D TAKE THAT WESTERNIZED PHILOSOPHY!

 

Energy is a substance that cannot be created or destroyed, but certain forms can shift from one plane of reality to another, regardless of whether or not humans can perceive it.

 

Nothing that exists in existence as a whole is without energy. Matter is just another form of energy, it just exists in the form that manifest's humans, thus society deems it different than other energy.

 

The sum of the universal energy is not god. God is a thinking, judging deity, a mass of energy that reflects human intelligence. Rather, it is Brahma, the sum of all energy that manifests this void (space). The only "god's" that exist in this plane are conscious beings, the ones that perceive, judge, think, and act. We are the ones that act, we are the ones that think, we are the ones that LIVE.

 

Brahma only is. When we die, we return to Brahma, not as conscious souls, but as energy, the energy that was once in our bodies returns to the world from whence it came.

 

Any other sort of believe in a "God" simply does not make sense.

[Guest JoshIcy]

Haha Hindu? And I used the term god of sorts to express its purpose more or less, thus putting it in such a stature....

Also due to the Purpose of Energy can it not judge our actions because if it couldn't or wouldn't exert itself, it would be judging and sentinent yes?

[Luna Lovegood]

MAybe this could be considered like this. Energy IS what controls the universe in a way. It could be said that energy is needed, so if it disappears, everything else does. But, we can control energy so that makes US gods of sort. I think the answer, from a philosophical point of view is that evrything in the universe is a god, making no one a god. so energy could be considered a good, just as gravitee or any other such thing.

 

 

~Funk

[Guest JoshIcy]

MAybe this could be considered like this. Energy IS what controls the universe in a way. It could be said that energy is needed' date=' so if it disappears, everything else does. But, we can control energy so that makes US gods of sort. I think the answer, from a philosophical point of view is that evrything in the universe is a god, making no one a god. so energy could be considered a good, just as gravitee or any other such thing.

 

 

~Funk

[/quote']

 

lol that kinda killed it. The rest of it pales into what ever else you said....

[Static]

Haha Hindu? And I used the term god of sorts to express its purpose more or less' date=' thus putting it in such a stature....

Also due to the Purpose of Energy can it not judge our actions because if it couldn't or wouldn't exert itself, it would be judging and sentinent yes?

[/quote']

 

No, Buddhist.

 

Energy has no purpose, it exists only because it can, and at the same time, cannot stop. It does not judge us, we judge it, energy that has taken a certain form, the form of consciousness, can judge other things that the consciousness perceives. The conscious form of energy is not all the energy as one, or we would be a part of this one conscious, we would literally be one mind, one universe. The fact that we are able to identify ourselves as ourselves proves that false. Brahma as it is known is not a judging deity, it is a presence from which all things, specific to this thread; conscious ones, came from, and all things will return to, they will return to being a part of the universe that does not think or judge, to be a part that just is.

[Guest JoshIcy]

Uugh I was pestered to do this early....

 

But Static you are abusing that God has to be a sentinent being. When it does not. I am phrasing this god as something that simply controls all that is. And by that you counter with a religious belief? I am disappointed in you Static....

You of all people I would expect to be flexible with the ideal of what a god/deity is.

[Static]

Uugh I was pestered to do this early....

 

But Static you are abusing that God has to be a sentinent being. When it does not. I am phrasing this god as something that simply controls all that is. And by that you counter with a religious belief? I am disappointed in you Static....

You of all people I would expect to be flexible with the ideal of what a god/deity is.

 

I stated no religious belief, I stated a fact. When we die, the energy in our bodies will return to the earth, no?

 

I simply gave this earth a name, and made it sound like I am implying a religious belief.

 

Onto the other part of your thread, I think the first part. Only sentient beings control, because only sentient beings perceive, think, and act on what they think is their own. If a celestial presence did not perceive, think, or act on what it thought was it's own, it would not be controlling. Controlling is a conscious action, limiting the ability of is not.

 

To kill two birds with one stone, I never said that a celestial presence could not limit the ability of anything. However, it is NOT THE FAULT of said celestial presence that anything doesn't occur as we perceive it should, it is the fault of the conscious being for having desire to do something it cannot.

 

I don't get what you are implying with the whole "God that can control" thing. I don't know what the truth is, but I know what it isn't, and I know it isn't a conscious deity. You have to remember, I'm still an atheist, a Christianized "thinking" god is utter blasphemy to me.

[Tabris]

To Icyblue:

 

You could consider energy a higher entity, but to consider it a god is a misuse of the word, since we usually conjure of one that created the universe, as well as one that hears and ruminates on every human thought.

[ragnarok1945]

plus the fact with different religions comes a different god (assuming that religion believes in only 1, some believe in more)

 

This is why it leads to so much conflict between religions because some will insist for one religion their gods have no power because they're not really real and such

[「tea.leaf」]

God is conscious.

 

Energy is an ambiguous attribute.

 

Physics defines energy as the potential to do work, and defines work as the energy exerted by a force.

 

Yeah... That doesn't help in the least bit.

 

Spiritual energy is a load of subjective bullshit that I don't believe in, so I'll leave it at that.

[Holy Babylon]

plus the fact with different religions comes a different god...

The God for Judaism, Catholicism, and Islam is said to be the same God. Especially seeing the fact that it's the same God that Abraham worshiped. I just finished a blog on Myspace stating my beliefs and scientific facts stating the existence of God. Everyone, prepare for a long post:

 

My Own Proof of God:

1. The Earth and the cosmos are so perfect in the way they are aligned, placed, and size. For an argument you may say: "Well there was a series of cosmic collisions that lead to-" No, the way we are perfectly aligned with our sun is that if we were any closer, or any further, we would either burn up or freeze. Our Earth is in fact at a tilt of 23.44°, just enough for us to have four seasons, and for our Earth to be equally warmed and cooled on each hemisphere for each season. Also, no other planet in our known solar system has an atmosphere so perfectly measured like our own. If the Earth were smaller, we wouldn't have an atmosphere, but at the same time, if it were larger, we wouldn't be able to support oxygen.

 

2. Intelligence. How is it that we can think like we can? How is it that these atoms make intelligence? There is no other way than someone making our intelligence for us. Atoms do not have brains, the only other theory that has a brain or intelligence to create our own intelligence is God. There is no way that an atom can have a mind to cluster together and say, "Hey guys, let's form ourselves a human that can build, write, and discover us!". That doesn't happen, it can't happen, and it can be disproven in scientific terms. Yet God cannot be disproven in his own terms.

 

3. Reasoning. Say if our series of atoms and codes of DNA created by our nucleus' are proven to build intelligence, how is it that they are proven to create reasoning? The only way that we would know that killing another human is bad, that taking lives is bad, and that we have our own feelings and emotions is God! Nucleus' and molecules Do Not have reasoning integrated into their DNA and nucleic orders.

 

4. Math. There couldn't have been a big bang, because the big bang states that everything was created from nothing. There can't be nothing, because if 4 x 0= 0, that still isn't nothing. Because the number 0 is a measurement of something which is empty. In other words, you can't have jelly floating around without a jar.

 

5. Jesus. There was no proof of Jesus by historical records, except by the Bible and by word of mouth. But that word of mouth spreads far. Over 500 people saw Jesus ascend into heaven. Thousands knew he was living during the time that historians and others have estimated he was. There was a confirmed Jewish historian speaking of Jesus in the 1st Century. Now, I see an awfully large coincidence in the fact that a Jewish historian was speaking of Jesus.

 

6. Coincidence. Is it not coincidence that religion came before science? Is it not a massive string of coincidence that our world was even created? There can't be this many coincidences, there is no way that we could line up so many of them to make our own world and our own brain, our own stories and our own reasoning. I don't believe coincidence is coincidence.

[Tabris]

To Deadlycreampuff:

 

That sounds and feels like a blanket assertion of: We don't know why X happens! Therefore God exists!

[Holy Babylon]

Not really, but okay. I know what you're talking about, it was on that one site where they posted like a trillion reasons why God didn't exist, it was funny.

[Davok]

Not really' date=' but okay. I know what you're talking about, it was on that one site where they posted like a trillion reasons why God didn't exist, it was funny.

[/quote']

 

Ever heard of evolution?

[Holy Babylon]

Not really' date=' but okay. I know what you're talking about, it was on that one site where they posted like a trillion reasons why God didn't exist, it was funny.

[/quote']

 

Ever heard of evolution?

I have actually, where did evolution come from then?

[Abstract [Atrocity]]

off-topic: evolution exists, but that's not how we got here.

Sure, let's say a tree starts making sap so ants feed off it and attack animals that would eat parts of the tree. That would be evolving, growing something new and w/e

but we didnt come out of some primordial soup, into monkeys, then this.

Anyone who buys that bit into the biggest sh*tty cookie EVER.

 

on-topic: the idea that energy = god is pretty strange.

I dont really know how to put this 'cuz I don't have a firm grasp on how this could even be possible; If god is real, we'll never really know how anything works. OR maybe there is no afterlife, and we're all an illusion. Illusions trying to find out how EVERYTHING works, coming to a sensible decision, and believing in that, although it's only another illusion.

Now my brain hurts.

[Tabris]

Not really' date=' but okay. I know what you're talking about, it was on that one site where they posted like a trillion reasons why God didn't exist, it was funny.

[/quote']

 

Ever heard of evolution?

I have actually, where did evolution come from then?

 

I don't know, for I haven't read the relevant data on the matter at hand; however, to say that God did it is tantamount to - no, make it IS - an abdication of the responsibility to research and find an explanation for X.

[Tomiix]

I belive energy statarted from a term we should all know the big bang.

In the beginig of time for some unknown reson a small amount of energy was created in our blank realm wich i belive started from a revers relm then ours. continuing this bundl of energy when it became strong enough it expoloded with energy madder and our elements. creating the world slowly the energy from that blast caused elements to move and form and collided making more energy and continuing till now so we countinued making energy with the first boost. This is what started our time space and energy, madder. It continues because every thing we do is a chain effect that makes more energy that contiues to grow. for example I am typing my keys when i press down on it and realese the spring storing energy from me pushing it makes energy so it can rise up. In the prespective of a god creating energy I belive in a god but i do not think that god created energy him/her self i belive its made by every living and nonliving peace of madder on this earth all created by the first push....... the big bang.

[Guest Supreme Gamesmaster]

I belive energy statarted from a term we should all know the big bang.

In the beginig of time for some unknown reson a small amount of energy was created in our blank realm wich i belive started from a revers relm then ours. continuing this bundl of energy when it became strong enough it expoloded with energy madder and our elements. creating the world slowly the energy from that blast caused elements to move and form and collided making more energy and continuing till now so we countinued making energy with the first boost. This is what started our time space and energy' date=' madder. It continues because every thing we do is a chain effect that makes more energy that contiues to grow. for example I am typing my keys when i press down on it and realese the spring storing energy from me pushing it makes energy so it can rise up. In the prespective of a god creating energy I belive in a god but i do not think that god created energy him/her self i belive its made by every living and nonliving peace of madder on this earth all created by the first push....... the big bang.

[/quote']

How did this reverse universe happen?

 

 

OP: If time, matter, and energy began simultaneously, then matter and energy would have existed, in the same quantities as today, for eternity.

 

Also: Quantum theory claims that nothing exists until it is measured by an animal mind.

 

Brane theory claims that energy leaks between various "branes" of a multiverse of which we are apart, thereby explaining the weakness of gravity.

 

Both are on topic.

 

Not really' date=' but okay. I know what you're talking about, it was on that one site where they posted like a trillion reasons why God didn't exist, it was funny.

[/quote']

 

Ever heard of evolution?

I have actually, where did evolution come from then?

Evolution is the byproduct of a competitive world, not a thing unto itself.

[Amaterasu]

I suppose someone could beleive that theporetically. Thing is this is kinda cornfusing. Maybe atoms are god. they have the same attributes you mentioned of energy.

[The Dark One]

plus the fact with different religions comes a different god...

The God for Judaism' date=' Catholicism, and Islam is said to be the same God. Especially seeing the fact that it's the same God that Abraham worshiped. I just finished a blog on Myspace stating my beliefs and scientific facts stating the existence of God. Everyone, prepare for a long post:

 

My Own Proof of God:

1. The Earth and the cosmos are so perfect in the way they are aligned, placed, and size. For an argument you may say: "Well there was a series of cosmic collisions that lead to-" No, the way we are perfectly aligned with our sun is that if we were any closer, or any further, we would either burn up or freeze. Our Earth is in fact at a tilt of 23.44°, just enough for us to have four seasons, and for our Earth to be equally warmed and cooled on each hemisphere for each season. Also, no other planet in our known solar system has an atmosphere so perfectly measured like our own. If the Earth were smaller, we wouldn't have an atmosphere, but at the same time, if it were larger, we wouldn't be able to support oxygen.

 

[b']Ok, so something very unlikely happened. Well, guess what, we are the population of one planet circling one star in one galaxy, contained within one universe. Chances are, somewhere these things are going to line up, they just happened to line up HERE. Also, proving that something is unlikely is not evidence that it cannot have happened. Everything that is possible IS POSSIBLE. Regardless of how unlikely.[/b]

 

2. Intelligence. How is it that we can think like we can? How is it that these atoms make intelligence? There is no other way than someone making our intelligence for us. Atoms do not have brains, the only other theory that has a brain or intelligence to create our own intelligence is God. There is no way that an atom can have a mind to cluster together and say, "Hey guys, let's form ourselves a human that can build, write, and discover us!". That doesn't happen, it can't happen, and it can be disproven in scientific terms. Yet God cannot be disproven in his own terms.

Wait, what? This part doesn't even make sense. But just to give you a little background on that particular area: We believe that the first forms of Proto-life were RNA-based organisms. They were so simplistic they didn't even have DNA. There was no intelligence there. They worked in a predictable way that could easily be attributed to the laws of the universe. Do you shout out intelligence when a planet orbits the sun? Through the process of evolution (survival of the fittest. It makes logical sense, so I simply can't relate to all the naysayers out there), life developed into much more advanced organisms. Still, could you possibly call them intelligent? Yes, more complex, but they are still simply a product of their inherent properties (received through the material of their forebears) and the forces acting upon them. Utterly predictable. You can proceed up this "chain" until you reach human life. We are so complex that we are not predictable in the same sense that an RNA-based single-celled organism is... to us. But to relate this to mathmatics... just because a parabola has more variables and isn't as easily understand as a linear function doesn't somehow magically mean that the parabola isn't a product of its variables in the same sense that a linear function is. A parabola isn't intelligent.

 

So humans aren't really intelligent. We are not capable of it, but it would be theoretically possible to look at the universe, and predict every action, every thought, every decision that would occur in a person's life from the time of their birth to the time of their death. We are nothing more than machines.

 

3. Reasoning. Say if our series of atoms and codes of DNA created by our nucleus' are proven to build intelligence, how is it that they are proven to create reasoning? The only way that we would know that killing another human is bad, that taking lives is bad, and that we have our own feelings and emotions is God! Nucleus' and molecules Do Not have reasoning integrated into their DNA and nucleic orders.

 

There are theories that account for morality. Namely, the concept of the "selfish gene theory." It is in the best interest of our species as a whole for charity, etc. to exist. Likewise, we all benefit from the existence of "civilization" as proved by Game Theory. There is SO MUCH we don't understand, but it's also quite amazing just how much of the mind and its origin we HAVE worked out. Certainly there is enough to prove evolution to be a perfectly valid theory.

 

4. Math. There couldn't have been a big bang, because the big bang states that everything was created from nothing. There can't be nothing, because if 4 x 0= 0, that still isn't nothing. Because the number 0 is a measurement of something which is empty. In other words, you can't have jelly floating around without a jar.

 

5. Jesus. There was no proof of Jesus by historical records, except by the Bible and by word of mouth. But that word of mouth spreads far. Over 500 people saw Jesus ascend into heaven. Thousands knew he was living during the time that historians and others have estimated he was. There was a confirmed Jewish historian speaking of Jesus in the 1st Century. Now, I see an awfully large coincidence in the fact that a Jewish historian was speaking of Jesus.

 

This proves nothing. So lots of people said that Jesus existed. He probably did. That doesn't mean he actually performed miracles. Let me remind you that the gospels were written some 50 years AFTER he had died, and not even by his actual apostles. They were written in the name of certain apostles, but not really by them. It's sort of siilar to the way Churches are named after saints. It doesn't mean that St. REALLY founded the church, just for whatever reason, the church is "dedicated" to that saint.

 

6. Coincidence. Is it not coincidence that religion came before science? Is it not a massive string of coincidence that our world was even created? There can't be this many coincidences, there is no way that we could line up so many of them to make our own world and our own brain, our own stories and our own reasoning. I don't believe coincidence is coincidence.

Coincidences DO happen. And if given sufficient time, any possible combination of events will unfold. However, it is also worth noting that religion predated science, as the term is commonly used, because most people don't consider discovering that rocks are hard, or that wood burns, to be science. Science is the unveiling of the properties of our world, and it has been happening since "intelligent" life began. Religion is caused by the need to fill in gaps of understanding. Baffled by how they came to be existent, primitive societies invented people in the sky who created them from mud, etc. It was just better to make sheet up for them than to not have any clue.

 

[Nexev]

God existes due to the fact that we percive him, after all Icyblue you made the "Reality is my b word" thread on the old drift. You already know the ansewer, since we acknowledge his existence he exists even if it is only in the realm of imagineation, and as we pervice him with infinite power, then it must be so.

 

In accordance with post uno the energy can be considered a god but due to it's primeval nature it is more like a greek titans.

[Father Wolf]

Futurama god anyone?

[Nexev]

That is probably either spam or flame.