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Gene-Warped Warwolf : Discussion

CrabHelmet

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CrabHelmet Newbie

CrabHelmet

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The card itself isn't really what I want to discuss here, so I'm not going to post a picture.

 

With the ATK cap of Level 4 monsters with no negative effects rising once more, the question needs to be asked: when does a Level 4 Vanilla become banworthy? A Level 4 Vanilla with 0 ATK and 0 DEF is obviously not banworthy; by the same token, a Level 4 Vanilla with 16000 ATK and 16000 DEF is obviously banworthy. So we need to ask ourselves how much ATK a Level 4 Vanilla can have before it requires list attention. Is 2000 the ceiling? Would 2100 be acceptable? 2200? 2300? 2400? 2500? 3000? How high can we go before the banlist needs to put its foot down? What about Level 6 Vanillas? Would raising them to 2700 ATK be a problem? 2800? 2900? 3000? How about Level 8 Vanillas? Would 3100 be all right? 3500? Would Type and Attribute matter? Would a WIND Fish be allowed 50 more ATK than a DARK Warrior? Where and how do we draw the line?

 

Fortunately, it seems unlikely that Konami would print a Vanilla that would require banning in the foreseeable future, but it's interesting to think about.

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Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Collaborator

Zeppeli Gyro Supreme

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I would draw the line at 2100, at the most. And then I'd say that they don't make any Level 4 effect monsters with 1900 ATK or more unless it has an adverse effect (like my Sadist Demon). Because otherwise monsters are just going to keep going up in power, until eventually none of the old cards can compare to them.

 

Level 6's should go to 2700, and Level 8's should go to 3100/3200 tops.

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The Dark One Newbie

The Dark One

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Skilled Dark Magician is practically a no-effect monster because Dark Magician itself isn't worth playing. As Pika was saying, there isn't a way to just set down a rule to be followed. It all depends on the situation.

 

I do, however, think that Lv4s should always stay below 2400, as that's the standard number for a one-tribute monster, and this could lead to problems. Even Gene-warped, at 2000, is damaging to cards like Airknight Parshath, though neither see play. When Parshath was popular, did Gene-Warped ever see play?

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Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Collaborator

Zeppeli Gyro Supreme

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And then I'd say that they don't make any Level 4 effect monsters with 1900 ATK or more unless it has an adverse effect (like my Sadist Demon).

 

Oh? You advocate a ban on Skilled Dark Magician?

I meant good effects. Skilled's effect only lets you summon a Vanilla anyhow, so it's almost like he himself is a vanilla.

 

Anyway, I meant in the future.

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Abstract [Atrocity] Newbie

Abstract [Atrocity]

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Type and Attribute kinda make a factor;

Like crab said, a 3200 Level 8 Vanilla Wind/Fish isn't broken or banworthy. Just strong.

On the other hand, a 3200 Dark / Zombie might be. All the Dark Support and Zombie Support.

Book of Moon, Il Blud, Mezuki, Allure, :/

 

2100 for Level 4, 2700 for Level 6 and 3200 for level 8+ with a few little variables thrown in...

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Exiro Newbie

Exiro

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For newcomers, you should compare it to the atk of other balanced monsters that see at least some play or have an effect that's basically a disadvantage.

 

I think that 2100 atk is a little too much for LV4s because the Effect Monsters in this range have a disadvantage:

Archfiend General, Captain Gold and Zeradias are searches that die when their field card is not face-up. Therefore, it requires some skill to play them.

Zombyra gets weaker and can't attack directly, which balances it out.

Wulf is just different, but he can't be Normal Summoned so it doesn't really count.

 

Now, was 2000 atk already a step too far? If you look up the lv4 effect monsters with 2000 atk, you'll find that most of them have an effect that is definitely a downside. However...

Susa Soldier and Shadowknight are arguable.

 

Hm, 2000 would be ok in my opinion.

 

 

 

However, if we could 'reset' the card pool and want to know where you should stop, you should compare the atk to the starting lp, and say where you think it goes too far.

 

In my opinion, a monster that needs 2 tributes to summon and can destroy the opponent in 2 turns when he has a clear field is just above the limit, so I'd say they could make BEWD 3900, it'd be ok.

But that's just me.

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tonisanoob Newbie

tonisanoob

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personally i dont think they will release anymore vanallas above 2000 atk

 

or lv5s above 2600

 

and they certainly wont make lv8 a 3100 normal (as if they wer gonna spiral serpent would have)

 

i think gene warped was just an exeption

 

as MOST archtypes have had some from of 1900 beatstick for YEARS so im guessing its going to stay liek tht

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Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Collaborator

Zeppeli Gyro Supreme

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I think that 2100 atk is a little too much for LV4s because the Effect Monsters in this range have a disadvantage:

Archfiend General' date=' Captain Gold and Zeradias are searches that die when their field card is not face-up. Therefore, it requires some skill to play them.

Zombyra gets weaker and can't attack directly, which balances it out.

Wulf is just different, but he can't be Normal Summoned so it doesn't really count.

 

[b']Captain Gold and Archfiend General are also Terraforming in the right deck. Therefore, they have balanced effects to a certain degree. However, Zombyra cannot be compared to these guys as Zombyra cannot attack directly, loses ATK, and has no special ability other than weakening himself. That is why we don't see him played.[/b]

 

Now, was 2000 atk already a step too far? If you look up the lv4 effect monsters with 2000 atk, you'll find that most of them have an effect that is definitely a downside. However...

Susa Soldier and Shadowknight are arguable.

 

A monster with no effect is better off with a higher ATK value. If they didn't, then they would be worthless cards. Currently, we have effect monsters with decent effects who have 1800+ ATK. A 1900 beatstick could never compare to them, and even a 2000 beatstick is no match it seems.

 

In my opinion, a monster that needs 2 tributes to summon and can destroy the opponent in 2 turns when he has a clear field is just above the limit, so I'd say they could make BEWD 3900, it'd be ok.

But that's just me.

 

Think normal support. A monster with almost 4000 ATK can be summoned with a large number of cards? Doesn't sound fair to me

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Psycho Shocker Android Newbie

Psycho Shocker Android

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a 2300 atk 4 star monster with bad typing and attribute would be fair (fire/sea serpent) as long as he is the only one made.

 

2400 would be too much but if limited to one it could be ok

 

2500 would be ban worthy because of the no drawback factor

 

Can you justify these opinions?

 

Well as stated by others before normal monsters have some support.

 

But if they make only one monster with 2300 atk it wouldn't affect the normal monster deck much because it would still need to play other weaker normal monsters (that are bad)

 

I based my oppinion on goblin attack force and chainsaw insect.

 

I also took in consideration the monarch and other 1 tribute monsters like PMD, summuned skull, the end of anubis...

 

Ramming a 2400 atk normal monster into a Caius is sorta like using exiled force on it with some risk factor.

 

I considered stardust is a lv8 with 2500 atk and i wouldn't allow a 2500 atk normal monster to ram into it.

 

Side note goyo has 2800 atk and his a lv6.

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JesusofChaos™ Newbie

JesusofChaos™

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a 2300 atk 4 star monster with bad typing and attribute would be fair (fire/sea serpent) as long as he is the only one made.

 

2400 would be too much but if limited to one it could be ok

 

2500 would be ban worthy because of the no drawback factor

 

Can you justify these opinions?

 

Well as stated by others before normal monsters have some support.

 

But if they make only one monster with 2300 atk it wouldn't affect the normal monster deck much because it would still need to play other weaker normal monsters (that are bad)

 

I based my oppinion on goblin attack force and chainsaw insect.

 

I also took in consideration the monarch and other 1 tribute monsters like PMD' date=' summuned skull, the end of anubis...

 

Ramming a 2400 atk normal monster into a Caius is sorta like using exiled force on it with some risk factor.

 

I considered stardust is a lv8 with 2500 atk and i wouldn't allow a 2500 atk normal monster to ram into it.

[/b']

Side note goyo has 2800 atk and his a lv6.

 

Just because it can run over monarchs doesnt make it ban worthy, summoned skull can run over monarchs, ban that, cosmo queen can run over monarchs ban that. We have to deem wether having lolatk monsters is determental to the meta

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Xemba Newbie

Xemba

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Jain, The Lightsworn Paladin and Steamroid are also discussable here. Gene-Warped should be the only 2k 4 star vanilla. There's also Berserk Gorilla and Big Piece Golem that are in this mess.

 

 

However Cyber Dragon is 2100 easy to SS monster and that is limited. Gene-Warped is 2000 normal summon monster that is at 3. Any 4 star 2k attack monsters from now on should have a negative effect around the same value of Berserk Gorilla's. Or they could have the buff up abilities like Jain perhaps.

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Kale Newbie

Kale

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This is the same reason that makes Summoned Skull banworthy. The fact that it's 6 stars and has 2500 ATK makes it banable.

 

goyo is a level 6 that has 2800 ATK and can steal monsters. Summoned Skull? please...

 

---

 

i do think that there needs to be a line drawn. when the game came out, we were all playing with 1000 ATK monsters as powerful beings. now its a 1900 ATK monster that is a normal being.

 

it is strange... and when they come out with a 2500 ATK level 4 monster... i dont even want to think about it. XD

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Aximil Newbie

Aximil

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I know I'm going to be called a noob who needs to learn how to play, but, I think it's a perfectly acceptable monster once the duel gets to turn 5 or 6. If he's played before that, it's unfair. The reason I say turn 5 or 6 is because your opponent should be able to smack it down without a worry. If (s)he cant, (s)he deserves to get smashed by a 4 star vanilla.

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Kale Newbie

Kale

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I know I'm going to be called a noob who needs to learn how to play' date=' but, I think it's a perfectly acceptable monster once the duel gets to turn 5 or 6. If he's played before that, it's unfair. The reason I say turn 5 or 6 is because your opponent should be able to smack it down without a worry. If (s)he cant, (s)he deserves to get smashed by a 4 star vanilla.

[/quote']

 

how do you get to turn 5/6 anyhow?

 

most duels nowadays are around 3 max. XD

 

i dont think that the time you are 'allowed' to play a card should determine its fairness...

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