These 3 cards need to be banned.

[Guest Star]

The question is, which one needs to be banned first?

 

1. Card of Safe Return

2. Crush Card Virus

3. Monster Reborn

 

Please give a reason(s) to back up your answer.

[iAmNateXero]

Usualy to start a Discussion, one provides the method to their own madness. Anyway, this is how i see it.

 

CoSR; No. A continuous Spell card used for nothing more than OTK's and Zombies.

 

CCV; Maybe; Lets face facts, Like Trap Dust shoot, its a game winner, promotes stacking, and usually creates too much of a disadvantage to come back from late game.

 

MR: No. A one shot Monster Retriever. Does it have combos? No. Can it create loop holes? No. Its actually quite Balanced.

 

As to banned first, I wont vote for any of these choices.

[Sparta™]

I thought MR was already banned? Anyway, probably CCV for limited, and COSR should be semi limited.

---

CCV is a card that can easily be negated by counters. COSR, just think it should be semi limited. Don't have a reason.

[Guest Star]

Usualy to start a Discussion' date=' one provides the method to their own madness. Anyway, this is how i see it.

 

CoSR; No. A continuous Spell card used for nothing more than OTK's and Zombies.

 

CCV; Maybe; Lets face facts, Like Trap Dust shoot, its a game winner, promotes stacking, and usually creates too much of a disadvantage to come back from late game.

 

MR: No. A one shot Monster Retriever. Does it have combos? No. Can it create loop holes? No. Its actually quite Balanced.

 

As to banned first, I wont vote for any of these choices.

[/quote']

 

You said Monster Reborn is balanced? Why?

 

In my opinion, Card of Safe Return should be banned first. The combo with Imperial Iron Wall is just too powerful. Normally, I'd say that a card shouldn't be banned because of another card, but in this situation, I'm making an exception.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

The question is' date=' which one needs to be banned first?[/quote']

 

Dark Armed Dragon.

[CrabHelmet]

The real question is whether Nate is legitimately bad at this game or is merely an excellent parody.

[The Dark One]

The real question is whether Nate is legitimately bad at this game or is merely an excellent parody.

This

 

 

 

 

Anyways, Crush Card Virus is clearly the most broken of the three.

 

Card of Safe Return combos well with Iron Wall+PlagueSpreader+Quilbolt, and the other combos, but it requires those combos in order to do anything. Therefore, I think it's less of a problem than Monster Reborn, although one could argue that Monster Reborn is equalized between all decks, and therefore, while still requiring due attention, is in less urgent need of attention than Card of Safe Return.

[iAmNateXero]

Usualy to start a Discussion' date=' one provides the method to their own madness. Anyway, this is how i see it.

 

CoSR; No. A continuous Spell card used for nothing more than OTK's and Zombies.

 

CCV; Maybe; Lets face facts, Like Trap Dust shoot, its a game winner, promotes stacking, and usually creates too much of a disadvantage to come back from late game.

 

MR: No. A one shot Monster Retriever. Does it have combos? No. Can it create loop holes? No. Its actually quite Balanced.

 

As to banned first, I wont vote for any of these choices.

[/quote']

 

You said Monster Reborn is balanced? Why?

 

In my opinion, Card of Safe Return should be banned first. The combo with Imperial Iron Wall is just too powerful. Normally, I'd say that a card shouldn't be banned because of another card, but in this situation, I'm making an exception.

Why is it balanced? Its one card for 1 card. Unlike Call, or Preme, that actually has much better support, the fact that they are equip and continuous is a +.

The real question is whether Nate is legitimately bad at this game or is merely an excellent parody.

What every floats the boat i guess.

Anyways' date=' Crush Card Virus is clearly the most broken of the three.

 

Card of Safe Return combos well with Iron Wall+PlagueSpreader+Quilbolt, and the other combos, but it requires those combos in order to do anything. Therefore, I think it's less of a problem than Monster Reborn, although one could argue that Monster Reborn is equalized between all decks, and therefore, while still requiring due attention, is in less urgent need of attention than Card of Safe Return.

[/quote']

Like i said, Used for nothing but zombies and OTK's, and i could have sworn on an earlier thread, a WAY earlier thread Iron Wall was the foul in this combo, not necessarily CoSR. o.O Am i wrong?

[Sixty]

I thought MR was already banned? Anyway' date=' probably CCV for limited, and COSR should be semi limited.

[/quote']

 

MR isn't banned.

CCV is already limited.

COSR is also already semi limited.

[Sparta™]

well than I agree with the people who did that, because I thought it was the other way around.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

ITT: Non-lulz. Try again later, name-sharer.

[daxinator]

The question is' date=' which one needs to be banned first?

 

1. Card of Safe Return

2. Crush Card Virus

3. Monster Reborn

 

Please give a reason(s) to back up your answer.

[/quote']

Monster Reborn wtf is wrong with you!

I'll go with the Card of Safe Return should be banned

[CrabHelmet]

Guys, remember less than a year ago, when anyone daring to suggest that Monster Reborn should be unbanned would be laughed off of the forum as a stupid n00b?

 

Can someone please tell me what part of Monster Reborn's text has changed in the past year?

 

Does it have combos? No.

 

I heard Monster Reborn + Any Monster Ever is an excellent combo.

 

I thought MR was already banned?

 

That is merely a reflection of the quality of your contribution to this discussion.

 

CCV is a card that can easily be negated by counters.

 

Alright' date=' let's make a list of all cards that can't be easily negated by counters:

 

1. Spiritualism

2. Um.......

 

Unban all cards except Spiritualism, posthaste.

 

COSR, just think it should be semi limited. Don't have a reason.

 

That is merely a reflection of the quality of your contribution to this discussion.

 

In my opinion' date=' Card of Safe Return should be banned first. The combo with Imperial Iron Wall is just too powerful.

[/quote']

 

COSR is not needed to pull off an easy OTK combo with Royal Impregnable Fortress. RIF + random Tuner + Quillbolt Hedgehog + Mass Driver/Cannon Soldier/Toon Cannon Soldier/whatever = OTK.

 

Normally' date=' I'd say that a card shouldn't be banned because of another card, but in this situation, I'm making an exception.

[/quote']

 

Why on earth shouldn't one card be banned as a result of an unacceptable interaction with another card? Were it not for Gearfried the Iron Knight, Butterfly Dagger - Elma could doubtlessly have remained legal. The only people who would say otherwise are those Pojoites who want to preemptively restrict cards just in case Konami ever decides to make a card that would combo unacceptably with them, even though no such card currently exists or is being planned.

 

Why is it balanced? Its one card for 1 card.

 

Last Will.

 

Confiscation.

 

The Forceful Sentry.

 

Ring of Destruction.

 

Painful Choice.

 

Time Seal.

 

And so on and so forth.

 

A card is not automatically "balanced" as a result of being a 1-for-1. If you honestly haven't figured that out by this point' date=' you should probably go play an easier card game, like Go Fish.

 

Unlike Call, or Preme, that actually has much better support, the fact that they are equip and continuous is a +.

 

I heard that Dark Hole isn't as good as Raigeki nowadays. Let's unban Dark Hole.

 

The real question is whether Nate is legitimately bad at this game or is merely an excellent parody.

What every floats the boat i guess.

 

You're getting your metaphors tied up in a potato.

 

Anyways' date=' Crush Card Virus is clearly the most broken of the three.

 

Card of Safe Return combos well with Iron Wall+PlagueSpreader+Quilbolt, and the other combos, but it requires those combos in order to do anything. Therefore, I think it's less of a problem than Monster Reborn, although one could argue that Monster Reborn is equalized between all decks, and therefore, while still requiring due attention, is in less urgent need of attention than Card of Safe Return.

[/quote']

 

Like i said, Used for nothing but zombies and OTK's,

 

And Plants.

 

And Lightlords.

 

Card of Safe Return removes an important aspect of the game, namely resource management and caution, by allowing players to recklessly expend all their resources to swarm without protection as quickly as possible. Even a horrible blunder - such as, say, walking into a Mirror Force and losing five monsters - is no longer a hindrance, as all of those monsters have been paid for in advance. The game has no need to promote recklessness.

 

It is also the sole reason that a wide variety of OTK's are possible. Saying that a card is used primarily to OTK actually strengthens the case in favour of banning that card; after all, Butterfly Dagger - Elma is used exclusively to OTK, but that's no reason to legalize it.

 

and i could have sworn on an earlier thread' date=' a WAY earlier thread Iron Wall was the foul in this combo, not necessarily CoSR. o.O Am i wrong?

[/quote']

 

COSR is not needed to pull off an easy OTK combo with Royal Impregnable Fortress. RIF + random Tuner + Quillbolt Hedgehog + Mass Driver/Cannon Soldier/Toon Cannon Soldier/whatever = OTK.

[Tickle Me Emo]

Usualy to start a Discussion' date=' one provides the method to their own madness. Anyway, this is how i see it.

 

CoSR; No. A continuous Spell card used for nothing more than OTK's and Zombies.

 

CCV; Maybe; Lets face facts, Like Trap Dust shoot, its a game winner, promotes stacking, and usually creates too much of a disadvantage to come back from late game.

 

MR: No. A one shot Monster Retriever. Does it have combos? No. Can it create loop holes? No. Its actually quite Balanced.

 

As to banned first, I wont vote for any of these choices.

[/quote']

The more I see you post the more I think you fail

 

 

The real question is whether Nate is legitimately bad at this game or is merely an excellent parody.

 

Crab, you my friend, are quite correct.

 

Now on topic:

CCV is a broken card, as it can utterly devistate most decks for 3 turns making them utterly useless.

Monster Reborn is a free revival and can ultimately be the difference maker in a duel.

CoSR is the most abusable draw engine.

 

Over all Id say CCV then CoSR then Reborn

[The Dark One]

To demonstrate thoroughly CCV's brokenness, all one needs to do is look at the third game in this match. This is from the latest SJC, and if CCV didn't exist, than the Lightsworn player would most likely have been the winner of this match.

 

http://metagame.com/yugioh.aspx?tabid=33&ArticleId=10297

 

To make it even easier for you guys, I'll even paste the third game.

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Game 3 began moments later.

 

Arnwine activated Allure of Darkness, drew two, and removed Dark Armed Dragon. He played another Allure, removed D.D. Crow for it, and summoned Elemental Hero Stratos to get Destiny Hero - Malicious. He discarded that for Destiny Draw, then played his third Allure of Darkness, removing Breaker the Magical Warrior! This was getting pretty nuts. He removed Malicious, special summoned another, then set four cards to his back row—did he have Crush Card Virus? If he did, this match was over.

 

He had it. Arnwine activated Crush Card Virus immediately next turn, costing Rogers his Lyla and Wulf. Rogers was left with Charge of the Light Brigade, two Solar Recharge cards he couldn’t comfortably play under Crush, and Necro Gardna. He set Necro Gardna and ended.

 

Arnwine summoned Sangan, brought out his third Malicious, and attacked for a total of 1800 damage. Rogers drew Wulf, Lightsworn Beast next turn—a real kick in the teeth since he’d opted not to play Charge last turn. He lost Wulf to Crush Card Virus and activated Charge of the Light Brigade. It got negated by Solemn Judgment, but he still sent Necro Gardna and two other cards to the graveyard for the cost. He lost the Gardna in the end phase to another D.D. Crow. This was officially unwinnable for Rogers.

 

Arnwine summoned Krebons and Synchro summoned Stardust Dragon with his last Malicious. He attacked, and when Rogers lost yet another monster to Crush Card Virus next turn (he topped Garoth, Lightsworn Warrior), he extended the handshake with a smile and a hearty congratulations.

 

Justin Arnwine moves on to the Top 4 to face Alonzo Peters!

[CrabHelmet]

As a rule of thumb, any highly splashable card that, for a laughably easy-to-fulfill one-card cost, is able to reveal half of the opponent's field, the opponent's entire hand, and every card drawn through any means for all of the next three turns, and then instantly destroy a significant number of said cards...should probably be banned.

 

All three Viruses share this horrible concept. CCV happens to have the most laughably easy cost and the ability to destroy some of the best cards, making its brokenness more evident than that of DDV or EEV.

[iAmNateXero]

I heard Monster Reborn + Any Monster Ever is an excellent combo.

ITT: You can activate Monster reborn when their are no monsters in either players graveyard.

 

Last Will.

 

Confiscation.

 

The Forceful Sentry.

 

Ring of Destruction.

 

Painful Choice.

 

Time Seal.

 

And so on and so forth.

All i have to add is

Also' date=' stop using banworthy cards in your arguments.[/quote']

 

A card is not automatically "balanced" as a result of being a 1-for-1. If you honestly haven't figured that out by this point' date=' you should probably go play an easier card game, like Go Fish. This much is known,[/quote'] This much is known, but i have yet to hear real evidence as to how MR IS Broken.

 

I heard that Dark Hole isn't as good as Raigeki nowadays. Let's unban Dark Hole.

I heard Preme has a cost and is much more abuseable with Arms Hole and Brionac' date=' ban MR anyways. Does that about Gist it up?

 

And Plants.

 

And Lightlords.

 

Card of Safe Return removes an important aspect of the game, namely resource management and caution, by allowing players to recklessly expend all their resources to swarm without protection as quickly as possible. Even a horrible blunder - such as, say, walking into a Mirror Force and losing five monsters - is no longer a hindrance, as all of those monsters have been paid for in advance. The game has no need to promote recklessness.

 

It is also the sole reason that a wide variety of OTK's are possible. Saying that a card is used primarily to OTK actually strengthens the case in favour of banning that card; after all, Butterfly Dagger - Elma is used exclusively to OTK, but that's no reason to legalize it.

Every body exhaust resources, to create an engine that requires the graveyard is nothing special nor anything new. Abusing the graveyard is nothing Special or anything new, Abuse in this game period, is nothing special or anything new. OTK are a part of the game, and every body does it whether they admit it or not.

 

COSR is not needed to pull off an easy OTK combo with Royal Impregnable Fortress. RIF + random Tuner + Quillbolt Hedgehog + Mass Driver/Cannon Soldier/Toon Cannon Soldier/whatever = OTK.

Than tell me, in their defense, why would they mention CoSR in that combo, or suggest it banned in that combo?

[CrabHelmet]

I heard Monster Reborn + Any Monster Ever is an excellent combo.

ITT: You can activate Monster reborn when their are no monsters in either players graveyard.

 

Why yes' date=' a combo involving Monster Reborn and Any Monster Ever does indeed need some monster to be present. Glad to see you figured that much out. Of ocurse, I'd have thought the phrase "Any Monster Ever" would be a sufficient clue, but reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your forte, although to be honest I haven't noticed any evidence that you have anything even remotely resembling a forte.

 

Last Will.

 

Confiscation.

 

The Forceful Sentry.

 

Ring of Destruction.

 

Painful Choice.

 

Time Seal.

 

And so on and so forth.

All i have to add is

Also' date=' stop using banworthy cards in your arguments.[/quote']

 

It's great to know that you've made the great leap forward of actually reading one or two of my posts, but unfortunately you don't seem to possess the ability to interpret them correctly. Since you've decided to omit the context, allow me to explain:

 

The quote in context is used to counter any argument claiming that Card A is banned because it interacts unacceptably with Card B, overlooking the fact that Card B is itself already banworthy. For example:

 

"Sangan can be tributed for CCV and then use its effect! Sangan should be banned!"

 

"Brionac is way too abusable with Premature Burial! Ban Brionac!"

 

"Dark Grepher makes it too easy to get Dark Armed Dragon out! Dark Grepher needs to be banned!"

 

As any dolt with half a brain can see, these arguments are all completely ludicrous. This is where don't-use-banworthy-cards-in-your-arguments comes into play. Any dolt with half a brain can also see that this is an entirely different case; you have claimed that being 1-for-1 makes it balanced, and I have countered this false assertion by listing a variety of rightfully banned cards, all of which are 1-for-1. This is a disproof by counterexample, completely unrelated to Card A / Card B situation described above.

 

Don't worry, your failure to understand such basic logic is in no way your fault, just as a potato's inability to understand vector calculus is in no way its fault.

 

A card is not automatically "balanced" as a result of being a 1-for-1. If you honestly haven't figured that out by this point' date=' you should probably go play an easier card game, like Go Fish. This much is known,[/quote'] This much is known, but i have yet to hear real evidence as to how MR IS Broken.

 

I'm sorry to hear you spent the last several years of your life in a coma.

 

The arguments in favour of banning Monster Reborn are numerous and well-documented, and I have no time to list them for your convenience. I will leave that task to the other competent players on this forum.

 

I heard that Dark Hole isn't as good as Raigeki nowadays. Let's unban Dark Hole.

I heard Preme has a cost and is much more abuseable with Arms Hole and Brionac' date=' ban MR anyways. Does that about Gist it up?

[/quote']

 

Since you don't seem to have understood my post, I shall repeat it in far simpler language for your far simpler brain:

 

You have stated that Monster Reborn should be legal because it is less abusable than Premature Burial. I pointed out that Dark Hole is less abusable than Raigeki, thus demonstrating that a card can be less abusable than a banworthy card while still being banworthy itself. This is a disproof by counterexample of your implied assertion that, if a card is less broken than a banworthy card, it should remain legal.

 

And Plants.

 

And Lightlords.

 

Card of Safe Return removes an important aspect of the game' date=' namely resource management and caution, by allowing players to recklessly expend all their resources to swarm without protection as quickly as possible. Even a horrible blunder - such as, say, walking into a Mirror Force and losing five monsters - is no longer a hindrance, as all of those monsters have been paid for in advance. The game has no need to promote recklessness.

 

It is also the sole reason that a wide variety of OTK's are possible. Saying that a card is used primarily to OTK actually strengthens the case in favour of banning that card; after all, Butterfly Dagger - Elma is used exclusively to OTK, but that's no reason to legalize it.[/quote'] Every body exhaust resources, to create an engine that requires the graveyard is nothing special nor anything new. Abusing the graveyard is nothing Special or anything new, Abuse in this game period, is nothing special or anything new. OTK are a part of the game, and every body does it whether they admit it or not.

 

Are you so stupid that you don't understand that the very purpose of the banlist is to shift the focus of the game from luck to skill, and thus it concerns itself directly with removing abusability, preventing OTK's, and eliminating aspects of the game that allow players to win easily without skill?

 

You appear to be saying that cards should not be banned for being easily abusable, rewarding unskilled plays, and promoting OTK's; however, the vast majority of banworthy cards are banworthy for just this reason. Let's legalize Butterfly Dagger - Elma; OTK's are a part of the game, right? Let's legalize Magical Scientist; OTK's are a part of the game, right? Let's legalize Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning; Special Summoning big monsters is a part of the game, and even though he's highly abusable, abusability is a part of the game, right? Let's legalize Premature Burial; it may be incredibly abusable with Arms Hole and Brionac, and it might make swarm OTK's laughably easy, but abuse of the graveyard is a part of the game, just like OTK's, so let's legalize that too! In fact, let's legalize every card; the banlist is inhibiting the game by getting rid of the abusable and OTK cards that make up the fundament of this game!

 

COSR is not needed to pull off an easy OTK combo with Royal Impregnable Fortress. RIF + random Tuner + Quillbolt Hedgehog + Mass Driver/Cannon Soldier/Toon Cannon Soldier/whatever = OTK.

 

Than tell me' date=' in their defense, why would they mention CoSR in that combo, or suggest it banned in that combo?

[/quote']

 

I see no reason to spring to the defense of that argument, as it is inherently flawed. Even if it was necessary, the argument would be invalidated by the Card A / Card B scenario described above. Hey, Star, stop using banworthy cards in your arguments, K? (To be fair, however, Royal Impregnable Fortress's banworthiness is still up for debate, so this isn't quite so serious a breach of logic; however, the fact that the key card in the combo is one that is already borderline banworthy does make that argument rather shaky automatically.)

 

As for why he mentioned it, it's because Card of Safe Return + Zombie Carrier can serve as a substitute for Random Tuner + Quillbolt Hedgehog. Both variants of the combo are usually run in the same deck when a dedicated deck is made; in fact, Zombie Carrier is in most cases the Random Tuner in question.

 

And before you ask, yes, I did just shoot down an argument that was presented in support of my viewpoint. A correct conclusion reached through false logic has no merit whatsoever.

[J-Max]

At first I was like "OMG MONSTER REBORNZ IS UNBANNED!" Then after a while I started to get used to it. They exchanged it for Call, which now I believe was a better idea. Call can be used in Combos and is Chainable. Sure Monster Reborn nabs you a monster from *either* Graveyard, it can't be used in any Combos, so we'll forever be seeing Call and Reborn go on and off the Ban List.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

1.CCV: This is the most obviously necessary banned card. The reason is simple: It gives expensive decks with rich players an insurmountable advantage over the less fortunate. It is of course banworthy simply by value of it's own effect, but it's the promoting of elitism that makes this card the most urgent of the three.

 

2.Monster Reborn. I don't really think this should be banned. It's so splashable and helps many decks compete by giving them recursion. Anybody can use this card. But I must say that of the many recursion cards, this is probably the most bannable.

 

3.CoSR. This doesn't need to be banned. The IIW combo is a laughable reason, it's clear that IIW is the one that should be banned for creating multiple loops and OTKs, many of which don't even require CoSR.

[iAmNateXero]

I heard Monster Reborn + Any Monster Ever is an excellent combo.

ITT: You can activate Monster reborn when their are no monsters in either players graveyard.

 

Why yes' date=' a combo involving Monster Reborn and Any Monster Ever does indeed need some monster to be present. Glad to see you figured that much out. Of ocurse, I'd have thought the phrase "Any Monster Ever" would be a sufficient clue, but reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your forte, although to be honest I haven't noticed any evidence that you have anything even remotely resembling a forte.[/quote']My forte's excel beyond this game, slander, typing counter arguments that traps the minds of inferior peers, coarseness, raffishness, accepting things how they are without asking question.

 

Monster Reborn's is not, and will not be considered a Combo. To fulfill a card effect and say it is a combo is pro; too pro even. I mean give it up to all the one card combos that apparently should be banned but aren't.

Sangan + a monster in the deck

Card Trooper + 4 or more cards in the deck

Elemental Hero Stratos + 1 "Hero" Monster

 

But i guess thats just way too difficult for a decapod crustacean to understand. So i'll make it simple. For a Combo, there must be some sort of combination. One card fulfilling its effect doesn't count as a combo. Lrn2Play

Last Will.

 

Confiscation.

 

The Forceful Sentry.

 

Ring of Destruction.

 

Painful Choice.

 

Time Seal.

 

And so on and so forth.

All i have to add is

Also' date=' stop using banworthy cards in your arguments.[/quote']

 

It's great to know that you've made the great leap forward of actually reading one or two of my posts, but unfortunately you don't seem to possess the ability to interpret them correctly. Since you've decided to omit the context, allow me to explain:

Before we begin, have you ever hear of the saying "For every Finger you point, three are always pointing at you?" And ITT: This sounds so familiar to...

Do as I say' date=' not as I do.[/quote']

 

Don't worry' date=' your failure to understand such basic logic is in no way your fault, just as a potato's inability to understand vector calculus is in no way its fault.[/quote']

 

Remember the fingers thing? o.O

As usual' date=' [i']Crab Helmet[/i] gets backed into a corner and resorts to second-grade name-calling, using words of dubious relevance to the situation.

a little modding to fit the situation, but im sure you see the relevancy.

 

A card is not automatically "balanced" as a result of being a 1-for-1. If you honestly haven't figured that out by this point' date=' you should probably go play an easier card game, like Go Fish. This much is known,[/quote'] This much is known, but i have yet to hear real evidence as to how MR IS Broken.

 

I'm sorry to hear you spent the last several years of your life in a coma.

 

The arguments in favour of banning Monster Reborn are numerous and well-documented, and I have no time to list them for your convenience. I will leave that task to the other competent players on this forum.

All they will say is...

 

''Its broken cos it can get back any monster from both graves!"

 

"Its generic revival so its bad for the game"

 

"its generic, costless revival"

 

"its a lucksack card"

 

"it wins games"

 

"it hinders future card design"

 

"you must be terrible if you don't realize MR is broken"

 

"joke thread"

 

"this thread is now about [insert foodstuff here]"

 

"staples are bad for the game"

 

Plus many many more pointless, wrong and irrelevant arguments. However, I think you knew this already, and decided just not to put yourself out there. Its alright, you can play dead for a little while longer.

 

I heard that Dark Hole isn't as good as Raigeki nowadays. Let's unban Dark Hole.

I heard Preme has a cost and is much more abuseable with Arms Hole and Brionac' date=' ban MR anyways. Does that about Gist it up?

[/quote']

 

Since you don't seem to have understood my post, I shall repeat it in far simpler language for your far simpler brain:

Once you start with the name calling, you don't let up do ya? ^_^

You have stated that Monster Reborn should be legal because it is less abusable than Premature Burial. I pointed out that Dark Hole is less abusable than Raigeki' date=' thus demonstrating that a card can be less abusable than a banworthy card while still being banworthy itself. This is a disproof by counterexample of your implied assertion that, if a card is less broken than a banworthy card, it should remain legal.[/quote'] Wrong, I stated no such thing, I followed the topic and address it accordingly, one thing you have failed to do, and repetitively fail to do time and time again. You make it your business to disprove one's thoughts on a subject, but are too much of a shrimp to display your own. God forbid everybody sees you for what you really are, an predictor on those who wish not to conform with "Pro" logic, but i like that. Its your greatest flaw, knowing that no matter how many times your "proving right," You always seem to do it in the wrong way.

 

The facts are, monster reborn is less abuseable than Premature Burial. I don't see how monster reborn is any more broken today from yesterday. I don't think any of the selected cards in the subject are "broken," a word with no official definition at all. Now however you decide to comprehend this is up to you.

 

And Plants.

 

And Lightlords.

 

Card of Safe Return removes an important aspect of the game' date=' namely resource management and caution, by allowing players to recklessly expend all their resources to swarm without protection as quickly as possible. Even a horrible blunder - such as, say, walking into a Mirror Force and losing five monsters - is no longer a hindrance, as all of those monsters have been paid for in advance. The game has no need to promote recklessness.

 

It is also the sole reason that a wide variety of OTK's are possible. Saying that a card is used primarily to OTK actually strengthens the case in favour of banning that card; after all, Butterfly Dagger - Elma is used exclusively to OTK, but that's no reason to legalize it.[/quote'] Every body exhaust resources, to create an engine that requires the graveyard is nothing special nor anything new. Abusing the graveyard is nothing Special or anything new, Abuse in this game period, is nothing special or anything new. OTK are a part of the game, and every body does it whether they admit it or not.

 

Are you so stupid that you don't understand that the very purpose of the banlist is to shift the focus of the game from luck to skill, and thus it concerns itself directly with removing abusability, preventing OTK's, and eliminating aspects of the game that allow players to win easily without skill?

 

You appear to be saying that cards should not be banned for being easily abusable, rewarding unskilled plays, and promoting OTK's; however, the vast majority of banworthy cards are banworthy for just this reason. Let's legalize Butterfly Dagger - Elma; OTK's are a part of the game, right? Let's legalize Magical Scientist; OTK's are a part of the game, right? Let's legalize Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning; Special Summoning big monsters is a part of the game, and even though he's highly abusable, abusability is a part of the game, right? Let's legalize Premature Burial; it may be incredibly abusable with Arms Hole and Brionac, and it might make swarm OTK's laughably easy, but abuse of the graveyard is a part of the game, just like OTK's, so let's legalize that too! In fact, let's legalize every card; the banlist is inhibiting the game by getting rid of the abusable and OTK cards that make up the fundament of this game!

Wrong! Are you so stupid that you can not understand that luck was always intended for the game? The Advanced format was created to better Tournament play and allow for more Skillful players to experience the game. To pull off a flawless otk is still skill, and not easily done. Otks are built off one idea, than expanded with sheer luck. It is that kind of play style that promoted the game. People who fear hard work, and imagination hate these kind of play styles simply because they wish to have a part in there victories/ demises, not simply dumb luck. When the ban list was first created, can you remember what it was? It was the 5 pieces of exodia, pot of greed, raigeki and Heavy storm and a semi limited Swords of revealing light. All cards that if multiplied would turn stretigic games into Skill less games. In the end this whole game boils down to simply luck. Good Hands, Bad hands, Top decking, and failing. People who think otherwise need to grow up and accept the fact that this game is just that, and that no amount of wishing will result in a luckless game.

[zelda_tp_fan]

<_< where's the popcorn when you need it?

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

@Nate: Of course the game will never become luck-less, and anyone who attempts to make it so is a fool. I guess it's a good thing that we aren't trying to make it luck-less, eh?

[Tsuki ni Mau Majin]

To Nate: I don't see why, if a game is just a game, that such petty arguments erupt so quickly about one card. Yes I understand the concept, yes, I understand you have different points of views on the card, but I don't believe it was necessary for you to shoot each other. xD

[iAmNateXero]

@Nate: Of course the game will never become luck-less' date=' and anyone who attempts to make it so is a fool. I guess it's a good thing that we aren't trying to make it luck-less, eh?

[/quote'] Do you even read anything in full before you post? o.O

the very purpose of the banlist is to shift the focus of the game from luck to skill

 

To Nate: I don't see why' date=' if a game is just a game, that such petty arguments erupt so quickly about one card. Yes I understand the concept, yes, I understand you have different points of views on the card, but I don't believe it was necessary for you to shoot each other. xD

[/quote']I don't know either. I just don't like my intelligence insulted for a card game. And name calling

How Rude!