Trying to make powerful dark deck, need suggestions for cards

[Apocolypse123]

[spoiler=Las cartas están aquí]

Made some more this morning,





Hey guys, sorry about lack of photos, but I'm doing it on iPad and it isn't working for me. Soz

More for this afternoon:







Just realised I posted The 13th Necro twice, Soz.

 

 

[Trebuchet MS]

Alright, let's get to work on these things. I'll start by correcting each card's text before discussing the finer points on it.

 

[spoiler Bloodied Token]You can sacrifice 3 this card and 2 other "Bloodied Tokens"; to Special Summon 1 Level 5 or lower DARK monster card directly from your Deck or your opponent's Graveyard. If your opponent declares an attack while you have control "Apocalypse, Lord of Destruction" or "Underworld Prince": You can banish this card from your Graveyard; negate the to block an enemy attack. This card does not count against your total of monsters.

 

For starters, Token isn't a proper monster Type. It's more of a card type, and that's stretching it a bit. Several cards do summon Tokens as makeshift monsters but they don't normally have physical cards.

 

Next thing is the very last sentence that appears on the card. Based on one of the alt-Summons for Underworld Prince, which is fundamentally impossible due to field limitations and basic Deck building rules, I'm inclined to believe that you can literally fill a Deck with endless copies of Bloodied Tokens, and they somehow can occupy the field without taking Monster Zones. Um. No. I can't comprehend how you would physically play these cards, and if they don't occupy Monster Zones, where do they go?

 

I need a lot of clarification on how this card is intended to work and interact with anything else. I think these Bloody Tokens can be replaced with a far more convenient mechanic, like Counters on something, or just standard Tokens that don't have effects or physical cards so that you don't end up with a Deck where you regularly get a hand filled to the brim with Bloodied Tokens.

 

[spoiler Chaotic Blade, Cursed Armor, Underworld Helm]No need to fix text here when they don't do anything.

 

So these cards don't do anything on their own and are just sitting ducks in your hand that you can't even get rid of normally until the others are assembled? The last time we had something like that which was competent, assembling all the other members won you the game. I'd personally make them Equip Spells at the very least so that you can at least try to do something with them on their own, and have a side ability to summon their ultimate boss when you control all of them at once - cards with names like those would give the impression that they're Equip Spells rather than Ritual Spells.

 

[spoiler Underworld Prince]3 Level 8 monsters or 13 Bloodied Tokens

You can also Xyz Summon this card using 13 "Bloodied Tokens" you control as the Xyz Material. When this card is Summoned: Switch Change all enemy cards monsters your opponent controls to face-up Defense mode Position, then When summoned: Set 3 Spell/Trap Cards from your hand or Deck directly onto the field. You can detach 1 overlay unit to control Xyz Material from this card, then target 1 enemy Level 5 or lower DARK monster your opponent controls; take control of that target until This effect ends when this card is removed from leaves the field.

 

Okay, the 13 Tokens alt-Summon seems a little excessive, assuming you can even gather that many in one fell swoop. But what worries me is the lack of "Once per turn" on its detach ability. Because this card is designed to pull out its Ritual Spells to accelerate it to its next form from the get-go, you can use all its materials to take control of nearly everything your opponent owns (assuming you have DNA Transplant up first), perform more devious plays with it like using those newly-stolen monsters as Tribute fodder or Material for your next big play, and then advance Underworld Prince to his next form without losing control of what you've taken. Even outside his intended Deck, he has a powerful body for a generic 3-material Rank 8, and can pull out any S/T you wish for from your Deck to help defend this walking ball of hax.

 

And speaking of advancing to his next form, I'm already starting to dread what power lurks within...

 

[spoiler Apocalypse, Lord of Destruction]Underworld Prince + Underworld helm + Chaotic blade + Cursed armor.

Must first be Special Summoned (from your Extra Deck) by sending 1 "Underworld Prince", "Underworld Helm", "Chaotic Blade", and "Cursed Armor" you control to the Graveyard. When this card is Summoned: You can take control of an enemy target 1 monster your opponent controls; take control of it. Once per turn: You may sacrifice can Tribute 1 of your monsters with a Level; Special Summon a number and bring in an equal amount of "Bloodied Tokens" from your ____ equal to its that monster's Level.

 

...What? That was it? Summon the Tokens from where? Hand? Deck? Graveyard? Combination of all three? And all the fuss was to pull out a big beater which can still die to a simple removal effect? The Bloodied Token shenanigans is a fair bit underwhelming in comparison, as you're just flooding your field with chump blockers.

 

You do permanently get a monster your opponent controls, but guess who does that with greater efficiency? Big Eye.

 

And that was just the first set of cards. The exasperation has tired me. Tune in again as I analyze the rest of the cards.

[mr. waifu]

Well he did put it in Joke Overpowered section

[Apocolypse123]

My original idea was to Special Summon Demon Soldier, use its ability to make the 3 xyz material for The Darvov Mage, use Demonic Warp, speeding up the ability to summon in 3 Horgu, destroying them and gain 36 tokens to summon in 2 Underworld Princes. I could then evolve 1 into Apocolypse and use some of the leftover Bloodied Tokens to summon Chaorupted Parasite. I've pretty much based the entire deck around Summoning in Apocolypse, much like Number 96 plays around is card.

 

With the problem of the Bloodied Tokens, my thoughts for it was that it could possibly take a place in the spell/trap card area, as a card, but have the effects to generate counters which go on the card. This way they won't be blockers, and it won't just flood the field. I was thinking that it could be like one of spell cards which summons something in, regardless of whether you have it in your hand, deck, side deck or graveyard.

 

I appreciate your thoughts on my cards and I'm always looking for suggestions.

Well he did put it in Joke Overpowered section

I put in here because of the rule that cards with over 6000 ATK or DEF can't be posted in normal areas.

[Apocolypse123]

Better versions of Rank-Up cards:

[Trebuchet MS]

Well he did put it in Joke Overpowered section

I understand that cards here are not supposed to be taken seriously, but the topic poster did request for commentary, so I've been treating the cards like they're in Casual Cards.

 

Apocolypse, if you want your cards pushed out of Joke/Overpowered, I do recommend you stay in line with the base stat cap and make up for the stat loss with some other effect that would simulate how hard it will still hit. Let's say you dial down Apoloclypse's ATK to 5000, but add in an effect that doubles all the battle damage it inflicts.

 

As for the Bloodied Token issue, I would change it to a Continuous Spell that has an innate ability to gradually accumulate counters on its own (but very slowly, to the point that you'd want the acceleration of your other cards to do anything fruitful with it). Each instance of using multiple Bloodied Tokens can be replaced with using a singular copy of Bloodied Tokens with X counters on it. So, here's what I propose for the new Bloodied Tokens, and one of the interactions involving it.

 

[spoiler Bloodied Tokens][Continuous Spell]

During your Standby Phase, place 1 Bloodied Counter on this card. If this card would leave the field due to an opponent's card effect, you can remove 1 Bloodied Counter from this card instead. When your opponent's monster declares an attack: You can remove 1 Bloodied Counter from this card; negate the attack. Once per turn: You can remove 3 Bloodied Counters from this card; Special Summon 1 Level 5 or lower DARK monster from your Deck or your opponent's Graveyard.

[spoiler Underworld Prince]You can also Xyz Summon this card using a "Bloodied Tokens" with 13 or more Bloodied Counters on it as the Xyz Material. (rest of card omitted)

[spoiler Apocolypse, Lord of Destruction]... Once per turn: You can Tribute 1 monster with a Level; place a number of Bloodied Counters on a "Bloodied Tokens" you control equal to the Tributed monster's Level.

 

There will be some issues regarding recurring this card from the Graveyard, but I'll leave it to you to figure that out.

 

The three equips are a little better now that they aren't dead weight, but they lose all their powers once a single monster is equipped with all three? The first line in each of them is no longer necessary as the Summoning requirements for Apocolypse is written on that card itself now.

 

[spoiler The 13th Necro][Zombie-Psychic/Xyz/Effect]

2 Level 5 Zombie-Type or Psychic-Type monsters

(This card is also always Psychic-Type.) Once per turn: You may discard can detach 1 overlay unit to stop a card from attacking permanently Xyz Material from this card, then target 1 monster your opponent controls; it cannot attack as long as it remains on the field, then When you activate this effect, this card cannot be destroyed by battle for 5 turns until the 5th End Phase after this effect's activation. Sacrifice You can Tribute this card; to bring in Place 10 Bloodied Counters on a "Bloodied Tokens" you control, and return the cards Special Summon, from your Graveyard, the monsters used to Xyz Summon this card in Attack Position. When this card is sent to the Graveyard: Return this card it to the Extra Deck.

 

First up, what are Zombie-Psychic monsters? Do you mean to tell me this card can be Xyz Summoned using Zombie or Psychic type monsters? Are you also trying to indicate that this is also a Psychic monster?

 

How do we count those 5 turns? Do we count only your turns or the opponent's turns? What happens if, before the effect expires, you use this effect again? Can you even use the effect again until the 5 turns are up?

 

But more importantly, the last two effects. Splitting up this card into its base Xyz Materials and furthering your Bloodied Token game is slightly acceptable, if borderline broken depending on how you use the monsters that were used in the card's Summon. But the fact that it puts itself back in the Extra Deck if it hits the Graveyard, even if you Tribute this card to its own effect?

 

Never mind needing multiple copies, I can just loop this card endlessly! The materials have simple once-per-turn effects? Ha! I get unlimited use of them in a turn! Split this up, use their effects, Summon this card again, repeat endlessly. Bloodied Counters? Infinite amounts of them! Why would you design a one-card infinite loop? I highly recommend the sentence "You can only Summon "The 13th Necro" once per turn."

 

[spoiler Demon Soldier]When this card is Special Summoned: Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower monster from (where?) to the field. Also, When this card is Special Summoned: You may can (do what?) this card; place to bring in 5 Bloodied Counters on a "Bloodied Tokens" you control.

 

Maybe you could step back a little bit and realize how your cards can interact with more copies of each other? You SS a Demon Soldier which Summons another Demon Soldier which Summons another Demon Soldier which trips up all three of their effects to load up 15 counters on the Bloodied Tokens, jumping straight to Underworld Prince in a single move without needing to use other broken things you've listed later! Mentioning what you do with the card and from where you're Summoning a monster will clear up any and all confusion on just what silly things can be done with a card.

 

[spoiler Horgu]Level 12 big bad vanilla monster. Move along, nothing to see here. Maybe tone down its stats to fit within the 5000 cap if you want this group to move out of Joke/OP.

 

[spoiler Chaorupting Parasite]This effect can only be activated by attacking or being attacked. At the start of the Damage Step, if this card is battling a monster: Target that other monster; equip this card to that target. While equipped to a Take control of an enemy monster and take no damage from that battle monster by this effect, you control the equipped monster. When At the start of the Damage Step, if the equipped targeted monster attacks or is attacked is battling a monster: You may can equip this card move the parasite to that the other monster instead. When you swap possessed monster return previous monster back to the enemy.

 

This one's actually rather interesting outside of the cards it's supposed to interact with. If monsters switch control in the middle of battle, they're automatically taken out of combat unless with something like Mirror Gate that forces you to do battle with those monsters. Your opponent can still dance around the virulence of this card by picking off the monster with card effects or the like, but if you happen to have gained control of a destruction resistant boss monster, you're in for a treat.

 

[spoiler Corrupted Spell]Okay, okay, you've made a more powerful version of Harpie's Feather Duster, a card that rightfully saw a long time on the Forbidden list. Why?!

 

[spoiler Demonic Warp]15 moves? You're giving a single player FIFTEEN EXTRA TURNS?! Most common combos can oneshot the opponent in 2-3 turns, but apparently that's not strong enough for you since your cards take too long to set up, and need FIFTEEN TURNS to go where they need to go?

 

Pardon me for skipping a few, I needed to lay into the problem cards right away.

[Apocolypse123]

Something I forgot to mention before: All of the cards with the type Warrior have been changed to Necro-Warrior (like beast-warrior). All other cards are Necro. I've also decided to tone Demonic Warp down a bit, making it a speed up of only 5 turns. I've also decided to take out the immortality sub-ability of The 13th Necro. I'm also going to make Horgu have only 5000 ATK. I also didn't know about the harpies feather thingamabob. I think I'll make it into a continuos card where the sacrifice of a dark monster lets you take out three face-up spell/trap cards from the field. I also think I'll make so that the rank-up cards only lose abilities when all equipped to Underworld Prince. Forgot about missing word it should be tribute. And yes it would be much better if the "you can only summon 13th Necro once per turn" was put in. Still, thank you for your advice, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

[Apocolypse123]

13th Necro should be updated to needing 2 level 5 Necro-type or Necro-Warrior-type monsters.

[Trebuchet MS]

First up, thank you for listening and calmly responding to some of my outbursts of exasperation.

 

It really helps if you are aware of the cards that are currently on the banlist. If your cards are on par with, or even stronger than, anything that is currently Forbidden, it's a good sign to tone it down a bit.

 

I cannot sit still with the basic design of Demonic Warp. A lot of card effects are balanced around being once-per-turn, and having a card to allow you to do more of that will absolutely snap the game in half since any Deck can use it, and that Demonic Warp will allow for more iterations of an interaction combo that otherwise is held back by a once-per-turn restriction. Any competently built Deck, given about 5 turns, will be able to set up and destroy the opponent and/or prevent them from successfully retaliating if their plays can continue without giving the opponent a chance to conduct their plays and attempt to dismantle the opposition.

 

I shall now proceed to finish the rest of the cards.

 

[spoiler Armageddon Wasteland]All Necro and Necro-Warrior-Type monsters gain 2000 ATK points during either player's battle damage calculation. During your opponent's turn, all Necro and Necro-Warrior-Type monsters also gain 1000 DEF points during opponent's turn. When "Apocolypse, Lord of Destruction" is on the field, every all Necro or Necro-Warrior-Type monster gains ATK equal to 25% of their original ATK.

 

I frequently reiterate that we're past the point where stat boosts mean a lot, but this doesn't mean that we can get away with monstrous ones. 2000 ATK buff is very significant, allowing even Chaorupting Parasite to kill most LV4 monsters, and everything else be nearly unbeatable in a straight-up battle. It doesn't help that the boost triggers regardless of whether the monster is attacking or has been attacked. Tone down the boost to, say, 800 or so, so that it's still reasonable without going heavily overboard.

 

DEF boost is nearly insignificant.

 

Final effect is also rather over the top considering that Apocolypse itself is pretty fearsome even if you scale it back to the 5000 cap. Then again, since this is a percentage boost it can scale relatively well, albeit unevenly, compared to a flat one.

 

[spoiler Darvov Mage]3 Level 4 monsters

Once every per turn: You may can Special Summon 1 Necro-Type monster from your Deck to the field. After During the End Phase of the 5th turn after this effect was activated, the summoned monster is send that monster to the Graveyard, then place a number of Bloodied Counters on a and an amount of "Bloodied Tokens" you control equal to the amount of that monster's Levels the summoned monster had are brought to the field.

 

Generally, you don't expect monsters to last more than 2 of your turns on the field, either due to the opponent getting rid of the monster yourself or you using that monster to Summon something else. This means the "drawback" here which can also let you cash in on Bloodied Tokens will very rarely set in.

 

Wait, that's what Demonic Warp was for? No, no, that's still a terrible design choice.

 

Let's not forget that this card is reasonably powerful on its own but can pull Horgu out of your Deck and do some ridiculous damage to an undefended opponent, especially since you've written up Corrupted Spell that erases their capability to respond to your plays.

 

[spoiler Sealed Tomb][Equip Normal Trap]

Stop an enemy card from activating abilities, attacking and switching positions. Target 1 monster your opponent controls; equip this card to that target. The equipped monster cannot attack, change its battle position except with a card effect, or activate its effects. If this card is destroyed, destroy the affected equipped monster as well.

 

An upgraded version of Fiendish Chain. Considering that's fallen out of favour recently, this might be reasonable within the current power standard. It can't be easily hosed with removal, but in exchange it also can't be used to negate an effect activation. I don't mind this card.

[Apocolypse123]

Reading your suggestions, I've decided to take Demonic Warp out of the set. It more hassle then it's worth and, quite frankly, my deck is powerful enough without it. I'll also edit Darvov Mage to Special Summoning a Level 7 or lower Necro-type monster card. I'm adding an effect to Horgu where it returns to the hand 2 moves after summoned. If tribute summoned, return tributes to the field in facedown defence mode. Got to go. APOCOLYPSE!

[TF2_The_Scout]

On Underworld Prince, how exactly are you suppose to have 13 tokens when there are only 5 monster zones?

[Trebuchet MS]

On Underworld Prince, how exactly are you suppose to have 13 tokens when there are only 5 monster zones?

The Bloodied Tokens was supposed to "not count towards your monster limit". The closest adaptation we could get with this without warping some fundamental mechanics was to convert Bloodied Tokens into a Spell Card that accumulates counters and Underworld Prince using those counters. But that's merely my suggestion - the final decision on what to do with the card changes lies in Apocolypse himself.

[Apocolypse123]

http://i.imgur.com/Qs6SRUx.jpg