=Legendary CardMakers=

[-Griffin]

It has nothing to to with the TCG, not a single TCG card is in there.

[Monkey]

Hm... Maybe I should have taken a look before saying too much. I'll check the 2nd one out later.

[Guest JoshIcy]

LCM Discussion- Advanced Clause for Realistic Cards

"Standard Rules apply. Only LCM may take part in this discussion and any excess posts will be deleted on sight, that includes an LCMs post who quotes the rule breaking user. Any other Comments/Discussions may be carried out by other users as normal."

 

Dark Mousy has proposed to me many times that the Advanced Clause should apply to Realistic Cards; where detailed reviews is mandatory. Opinions and thoughts?

[Dark Mousy]

If you want to make this public, fine.

 

Here's to catch you up.

 

Ragnarok is banned now.

 

Are you going to go ahead?

 

10% warning to anyone who doesn't follow?

 

Im sorry. What does me not liking the idea have to do with Ragnarok? Ideas before communication. Forcing it. Is just bad...

 

Not on your life.

 

Your point?

 

My idea is that if RC has gotten shallow (too shallow). If people aren't willing to think for 2-3 minutes to write a good paragraph' date=' then the critique is obviously no good.

 

Speaking of which. Ragnarok posts every 3 minutes (if you took the minutes he was online, divide that by posts).

[/quote']

 

This isnt about Rag. It's about your idea of the Advanced Clause for RC.

 

The AIM of RC is to get better and more realistic as the time goes on. While RP is for a game based on being VIVID. Sorry. But I put creativity and idea above communication. And I'm quite sure, anyone not blinded by "perfection" would agree with that too.

 

So no, it simply won't happen.

 

Then tell me Icy, what is the difference between THOUGHT-OUT critiques and VIVID Role Play posts?

 

OCC posts are generally one or 2 sentences.

The rest should describe something other than...

 

- I pick up a glass and hand it to you, as it's filled with juice.

 

That's what they wanted to stop. And I do support the AC, whether or not it's overbearing is only my problem there if it gets out of hand. But CC and RC is my problem.

 

To that I will make the same analogy.

 

Something akin to:

 

"OCG errors, bad pic, 8/10."

 

Isn't this what you want to stop, no? An RC equivalent of AC would be very similar. If you don't want it to be your problem, simply recruit more mods, or follow my idea of changing mods from dead sections.

 

Or something to that effect. If it were not for the time difference, I would go on a more in depth argument with you right now.

 

I need some sleep, and argue with you on a clearer head tomorrow, or choose not to.

[Guest JoshIcy]

Deleted and Fixed. Please continue as modified =/

[Dark Mousy]

Alright then.

 

There is such a place called Smogon. Smogon.com being the website. It's a pokemon website that I happened to wander on to find the ratings system for The Organization. (but that's beside the point)

 

This is a Yugioh forum, that is a pokemon forum, not much difference is there?

 

There, they have twice as many mods (I believe), to 3,000 ACTIVE members, so I must stress the MODS are NOT BEING OVERLOADED by this. Where we have about 1,000 ACTIVE members at most.

 

Their standards in their forums are much more strict than the Advance Clause, for god's sakes, this is pokemon.

 

Seriously guys. Take a look at Smogon forums, and you will see what I mean.

[Guest JoshIcy]

You're not understanding it.

 

The mod team of YCM, has to cater towards the new members near exclusively. While Senior Members do take some emphasis, the rules are thus built around both. This means that New Members are EXPECTED to have low quality posts.

 

Such things as "Good Card. Overall 9/10" is a motivational tool, to help them stay and return. And that's what we, as a forum want. One way or another. While, Senior Members are expected to give more detailed responses, and inform others how to improve (by their own standards| not the forums).

[Dark Mousy]

From what you have said, and the Smogon analogy. I can conclude:

 

As YCM and Smogon caters to relatively the same audience, Smogon EXPECTS their new members to have bad posts also.

 

So then, the difference is that it (the RC equivalent of Advanced Clause) is not strictly enforced. This is WHY our members never get better, and RC remains a spamhole, with a few good card makers, and the remaining members terrible.

 

As for the 'motivational tool', that is the most stupid excuse I've ever seen. You're implying a paragraph with the conclusion of: "Good Card. Overall 9/10." Is not as motivational compared to it by it self?

 

My goal (I stress mine) is to improve the quality of card-making, not to serve the general public. You're goal is different. You need to stop being so democratic, by catering to the newer members, you have effectively driven out many old card makers. Have you SEEN how many elitist card making clubs that have sprung up? All of the older card makers are posting their cards there compared to here, why? I'll let you answer that question.

 

EDIT:

Regarding Smogon, there are 40 mods, and 10 supers, to support about 500 people who are active at 11:00 PM Eastern Time, which means there are about ~1100 members active at about 7-8 PM.

 

Whereas 175 Members on YCM to 20 mods and 5 supers. Shows how the management is a disgrace. (You won't see the end of it if you warn / ban me for this, as I had HARD evidence to support this claim.)

 

Not to mention, Smogon has an elite team of programmers, writers, and raters (of pokemon sets), etc.

[Sploda]

Also what exactly makes you "legendary"? your just labeling yourself without asking everyone else.

[Guest JoshIcy]

Also what exactly makes you "legendary"? your just labeling yourself without asking everyone else.

 

Its hardly a way to gloat, but those in this club have practice never to abuse this name. As it would only create comments like yours. So yeah... And the requirements to get in are rather extreme.

 

As for you Dark Mousy.

 

How am I supposed to cater towards older members who can't take those posts to take it with a grain of salt and move on? The goal is never to alienate users. As the larger posts in a single thread (theirs) do overwhelm the other posts. They stand out, and make a difference. While showing appreciation that someone does care for their cards/ideas as is, not as it can be.

 

If those members cannot be responsible for themselves in that manner, how am I alienating them?

[Dark Mousy]

Alright. So you (Icy)'ve already made a concession. It is feasible.

 

So if it is possible then why should we do something like this?

 

(I feel like a lawyer now) We need a good environment to harness the intelligence within some people. We need more people like yangninja. Under ownership of the current mods (you were doing nicely though, you started the Created Cards Contest), yangninja became like an uninvited guest.

 

There are many slightly older people. I don't complain. I've loved Yugioh since I was like 10. You're 17, I'm 17, and you can find more people, heck, even Le Createur. If there is another case like Yangninja. I am out of here.

 

Why? Because without people like Yangninja you will not have all of those improvements to the card maker that people asked for. You will not have contest hosts like myself, Leo, and Selactica. What you will have is a bunch of noobs complaining about the Card Maker, and how they will all go un-satiated. THIS IS WHY, SMOGON HAS DONE SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU HAVE, WHILE CATERING TO A RELATIVELY SIMILAR AUDIENCE!

 

/objectionmode

[Guest JoshIcy]

@Creatuer: These discussions are for LCM Only. Thats why I edit or delete. It's always said at the start.

 

Yangninja did that whole thing under MY request. When I wanted to duel someone using the YVD system, without having to code it all myself. Seeing as the time it would take him to code that was actually shorter than making approx 15-22 cards in YVD Format myself.

 

And why did you bring up the CardMaker? I have no control over the PHP HUB (or whatever it's called) on the CardMaker to make such improvements. Only YCMaker does. Even if I wanted to, I'd have to learn how he did it etc. Which would take time in itself, and have to reference to him key points (as it is HIS code).

 

How I cater to the forum, is on both ends. If I eliminate the Motivational Simplicity, I'm alienating new users. Which are just as important (if not slightly more as they bring activity) so I do it for both. And if a user does post that they want more than the usual (expanded posts) say so, and I'm obligated to warn the uses who posts simple things against the TC's wishes.

[Dark Mousy]

Icy. Regardless. What if Yangninja wrote a program that did holos? It does not have to be card-maker. Programmers at Smogon invented the best pokemon simulator to date.

 

Ignoring everything else, will you atleast admit the following, although I know it is hard?

 

There is something wrong with RC.

[Guest JoshIcy]

All the current problems with RC lie in Elitism and the motivational Posts.

I'll take it to consideration and find some way to benefit everyone on their needs, rather than as a whole. But don't expect some miracle.

[Dark Mousy]

I'd say you need more mods. Mods become exponentially useful as there are more of them. I mean active mods. Not people like Sushi who do nothing. Of course, Sushi could do something, but you're not exploiting those resources.

 

It all lies in the economics Icy. It's also my opinion that we need more elitism. It's that you're afraid if the site gets too good, you'll be drowned out. All your pride in the world must bow to something.

 

I admit, I am not good myself here either.

[Guest JoshIcy]

I don't support elitism in the slightest. So again, don't expect some miracle.

[Dark Mousy]

I'm not sure if you didn't pay attention, or you ignored it on purpose.

 

You have not done anything to prove my FACTS wrong. I've shown that it works and it has worked. You have not come up with anything except for the fact you have to cater to newer people, also you're dodging specific topics and waffling questions.

 

So. Let me get something straight. Do you envision YCM to be a sophisticated society like Smogon? If you do, then do something, don't sit here reading suggestions, saying "Meh I don't like this idea". I believe the main reason for Smogon's success is due to a dedicated team of mods.

[Guest JoshIcy]

Honestly, I havent been dodging. Im taking it in. But Im expressing myself in a personal manner, as I prefer to. Nothing against you. I'm still paying attention to everything you're saying.

 

And sophisticated? lol. I don't know what you mean. Relaxed atmosphere for ideas, rather than being pressured to improve, so one can find their own learning curve than the one set forth by the members/class. That's what I strive for. Akin to a sculpting or Art class. You sit and you see. You learn from their methods but you don't force it on a person.

 

And while a larger mod team is wise, there's very little members I see here that are even deserving of it. Either they like their ego stroked, or are Elitist bastards who wouldn't take a common motivational post like it was something nice, as they're supposed to.

 

So either you suck it up, while I figure out a way to benefit everyone. Or you well... You don't have another choice and neither do I. Ooh, and for the record, I have been looking for new CC Mods to help me out. But that's not supposed to be common knowledge is it? No it's not.

[Brushfire]

It all lies in the economics Icy. It's also my opinion that we need more elitism.

 

Excuse me, are you high? Elitism brings nothing but egotism and a poor society. Get over it, it's rarely appreciate anywhere and YCM is no exception. Also, make up your mind whether we need more Mods or more elitism, as the two directly clash.

[Dark Mousy]

Alright. I have am tempted to ramp the heat of this debate up, but we are starting to move into a zone where we will start insulting each other. I respect your mod status.

 

This is a very sophisticated debate. Almost enjoyable.

 

I'm not asking you to force improvement among people, although I did give the impression. I wanted to create an atmosphere like this debate, where both sides have put thought into what they have written. As we are debating, we let each other's ideas sink in, as a result, we have learned something about / from each other.

---

It all lies in the economics Icy. It's also my opinion that we need more elitism.

 

Excuse me' date=' are you high? Elitism brings nothing but egotism and a poor society. Get over it, it's rarely appreciate anywhere and YCM is no exception. Also, make up your mind whether we need more Mods or more elitism, as the two directly clash.

[/quote']

 

1) You're not welcome here.

 

2) Support with evidence is required. (ex. Why do the two directly clash?)

 

If you read into context, you will understand what I mean.

[Brushfire]

You've done nothing but cause irritation and problems, despite what you might think. This atmosphere helps no-one.

[Dark Mousy]

Like you would know Brushfire.

 

Irritation and Problems, how?

 

It pays a bit to treat people with respect Brushfire. I don't know what you have against me, but I don't have anything against you.

[Brushfire]

Like I would know? Rofl, don't you even attempt to insult my intelligence and question what I know. I know more about this than you do.

 

Take a think about what Icy wants to post right now but can't, and then reply to this. You've done nothing but attack, claim your statements are fact and be an ignorant, elitist idiot.

[Dark Mousy]

I would insult your intelligence, but that just degrades me. So I won't.

 

And what is wrong with doing nothing but attack? They are fact in our (me and Icy, not you) conversation, as Icy hasn't said anything against it, where as I have backed my claims with examples.

 

Your above posts simply show you cannot back your statements with legitimate examples.

[Guest JoshIcy]

Debate? I thought this was a conversation... So much for the friendly atmosphere.