Honestly

[Killey]

Ah good, so I'm not the only one who thought Honest was far too good of a card. Not that it needs to be banne but it is an overpowered card. Please note that there is a difference between overpowered and broken.

 

The comparison of Sakuretsu Armor/Dimensional Prison to Honest is completely irrelevant the cards are completely different from each other. Also, S/T destruction is far more common and played than cards that deal directly with your opponent's hand. Monsters that deal with the hand need a direct attack with the exception of XX-Saber Gottoms but that requires a specific deck type. Hand/Card Destruction are rarely used and are only good in specific deck types as well. Trap Dustshoot and Mind Crush are the more commonly played card and is incredibly situational.

 

Playing it "smart" and not attacking only delays you a turn. As the opponent then can launch an offensive and just Honest you during his turn. You'll have to hope at the time you have some trap cards that will stop his battle phase but this rarely is seen in top decks nowadays due to the nature of the meta. The most common battle phase ender is threatening roar and its played in mixed decks though one of the ideal tech choices against Lightsworns. I think the biggest issue with Honest is the synergy it has with Lightsworn. I don't mind its synergy with other decks like Batteryman but its applications with Lightsworns in conjunction with cards like Necro Gardna is far too good.

[Flame Dragon]

1) that didnt even look like a coherent sentence. reword it.

All the cards you listed are at 1. And you said this meta. When trying to say if a card should be banned you should never base it off this meta. This meta is a bad one.

 

2) most traps are more vulnerable than honest.

Your point. Your opponent won't always be able to deal with them.

 

3) not all cards are recyclable after an attack has already been declared. getting ready for honest by not attacking and having to waste monster removal' date=' which you've stipulated is limited, on killing something with a pathetic attack like lumina is broken in and of itself.

[/quote']

And what are the odds Honest will be recycled as soon as it's use. Only 3 cards to my knowledge can do that so the odds of it happening are very small. You can get ready for an Honest not only be remoing the monster but by having your oppponent waste it. You know your opponent has 1 in their hand so why run one of your stronger monsters into it when you can use something else and have less of a loss. The same logic can be used for most trap. If you know they have 1 face down why waste a my useful monster when you can use one that isn't as helpful.

 

4) sakuretsu is still more vulnerable than honest. as is shrink' date=' unless the person playing it is attacking. this i dont find to be too broken anyway. it's one for one. but what it isnt is an invincible shield that cylinder+sakuretsu's any monster you attack with.

[/quote']

Honest doesn't make monster invincible. It's one for one removal like everything else. You discard Honest and you kill a monster. You can get the same results with countless traps and spells.

 

5) nobody cares about sakuretsu at 3. it's not chainable' date=' therefore vulnerable, therefore bad. comparing sakuretsu to honest is an asinine move and you know it. they're incomparably different.

[/quote']

No it isn't when your major problem with Honest seems to be how is makes people to afraid to attack because they will loss a monster. Sakuretsu and the many cards like it do the same thing.

 

6) i counted only specifically st destruction. lets list general destruction/bouncing/negation (which i assume is the same as "duel removal"): gyzarus' date=' jd, celest[/b'], ryko, dad, snipe hunter, caius, brionac, black rose, absolute zero, raiza, stardust, heraklinos, arcanite, icarus attack, solemn judgment, mist wurm and probably more i'm absent mindedly missing.

I bolded cards that should banned. That takes out about half the list.

 

point is' date=' sts are vulnerable. so are monsters, but with all this stacked on top of straight up st removal, they're really f***ing weak. monster specific removal is limited to things like fissure and smashing ground and a few other odds and ends. your deck has to be specifically loaded to deal with honest.

[/quote']

How much lone spell and trap removal do we have. Dust, MST, Trunade, Lyla, Breaker, and Heavy. That about all the cards that will be commonly run. Now we look at monster removal we also have Lightning Vortex, TT, Mirror Force, and Bottomless Traphole plus what you said. I think it's about even. Also how is it you can list off a bunch of duel removal cards, broken or not, and then say your deck needs to be specifically loaded to deal with Honest. Clearly it doesn't since decks have all the monster removal. Also you don't even need to remove the monster to deal with Honest. Using something like E-Con, or Book of Moon also keeps Honest from being used.

 

honestly' date=' i think almost every card on that list needs to be banned to fix this game. but whatever.

 

in a good format we wouldnt have this discussion because none of these cards would exist.

[/quote']

Not all those cards would exist, but some will.

 

7) eh. removing a field of 2-3 monsters without attacking is rather difficult. especially when that field can remanifest itself every turn. lightsworns are pretty f***ed up.

Again' date=' your giving LS to much credit. The only way I can really think of LS continously swarming are via Lumina and Wolf. Wolf should be banned and to keep swarming with Lumina is hard seeing as how you can only get 1 other monster most time, but what are the odds of your opponent being able to keep dropping Luminas after one is destroyed. If you get more then one then all your doing is filling your field with 1000 ATK beatsticks. However if your opponent has something stronger then those Lumina your summoning it should be clear that you are likely t have a trap in hand (Honest) to deal with an attack meaning they won't just carelessly atttack it.

 

Ah good, so I'm not the only one who thought Honest was far too good of a card. Not that it needs to be banne but it is an overpowered card. Please note that there is a difference between overpowered and broken.

What is the difference between overpowered and broken? If something is overpowered it is breaking the game in some so it would also be broken.

 

 

The comparison of Sakuretsu Armor/Dimensional Prison to Honest is completely irrelevant the cards are completely different from each other. Also' date=' S/T destruction is far more common and played than cards that deal directly with your opponent's hand. Monsters that deal with the hand need a direct attack with the exception of XX-Saber Gottoms but that requires a specific deck type. Hand/Card Destruction are rarely used and are only good in specific deck types as well. Trap Dustshoot and Mind Crush are the more commonly played card and is incredibly situational.

[/quote']

Again you don't just need hand removal. Simply removing the attack mode monster also keeps Honest at bay.

 

 

Playing it "smart" and not attacking only delays you a turn. As the opponent then can launch an offensive and just Honest you during his turn. You'll have to hope at the time you have some trap cards that will stop his battle phase but this rarely is seen in top decks nowadays due to the nature of the meta. The most common battle phase ender is threatening roar and its played in mixed decks though one of the ideal tech choices against Lightsworns. I think the biggest issue with Honest is the synergy it has with Lightsworn. I don't mind its synergy with other decks like Batteryman but its applications with Lightsworns in conjunction with cards like Necro Gardna is far too good.

Playing it "smart" also means you have your opponent use Honest when they wouldn't normally. If you know they have an Honest then why attack with a stronger monster when you can use something that isn't as important.

 

Also if your problem with Honest isn't Honest but the LS do something about the LS. On a good list they loss 3 of the big cards meaning they wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as they are now.

[Killey]

Honest doesn't make monster invincible. It's one for one removal like everything else. You discard Honest and you kill a monster. You can get the same results with countless traps and spells.

 

Except Honest has the additional ability to discard 3 and deal some massive damage to your opponent and even cause a OTK or a reverse kill. Stop comparing Honest to a S/T that causes monster destruction. The 2 are completely different since you can chain a ton of things to S/T's then a monster effect that activates in your hand during the Damage Step.

 

6) i counted only specifically st destruction. lets list general destruction/bouncing/negation (which i assume is the same as "duel removal"): gyzarus' date=' jd, celest[/b'], ryko, dad, snipe hunter, caius, brionac, black rose, absolute zero, raiza, stardust, heraklinos, arcanite, icarus attack, solemn judgment, mist wurm and probably more i'm absent mindedly missing.

 

You must be kidding me when you say Stardust should be banned. Stardust is a tech card it's not an all powerful being that breaks the game. It stops BS generic destruction cards that are rather borderline at this point. There are a ton of cards in the game that can deal with Stardust as soon as he hits the field or the next turn after.

 

How much lone spell and trap removal do we have. Dust, MST, Trunade, Lyla, Breaker, and Heavy. That about all the cards that will be commonly run. Now we look at monster removal we also have Lightning Vortex, TT, Mirror Force, and Bottomless Traphole plus what you said. I think it's about even. Also how is it you can list off a bunch of duel removal cards, broken or not, and then say your deck needs to be specifically loaded to deal with Honest. Clearly it doesn't since decks have all the monster removal. Also you don't even need to remove the monster to deal with Honest. Using something like E-Con, or Book of Moon also keeps Honest from being used.

 

Would you waste a Book of the Moon and E-Con on a guess that your opponent has Honest in their hand? It's not that easy reading what your opponent has in their hand despite cards like Trap Dust Shoot.

 

What is the difference between ovwrpowered and broken? If something is overpowered it is breaking the game in some so it would also be broken.

 

An over powered card doesn't necessarily break the game. Venomnaga has an overpowered effect with abilities to win the duel and rather easily once it hits the field, however, the summoning conditions are so incredibly hard to meet that its not broken.

 

Honest is sort of like that. It's over powered in that it ensures your Light monster wins the battle phase and potentially win you the duel if you have 3x honest in your hand and your opponent happens to have a beefy monster on the field. It has virtually no risk involved and is essentially a staple in any LIGHT based deck. The balancing factor is that it must remain in a LIGHT based deck which limits the type of options you have when deck building.

 

Again you don't just need hand removal. Simply removing the attack mode monster also keeps Honest at bay.

 

The thing about this is that this only keeps Honest at bay for that turn and yes that can help gain you leverage but it may only delay the inevitable unlike using cards that can destroy non-chainable S/T's.

 

Playing it "smart" also means you have your opponent use Honest when they wouldn't normally. If you know they have an Honest then why attack with a stronger monster when you can use something that isn't as important.

 

Also if your problem with Honest isn't Honest but the LS do something about the LS. On a good list they loss 3 of the big cards meaning they wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as they are now.

 

That's the issue though it's because you HAVE to lose a monster to or utilize a S/T that you wouldn't normally use in that situation to "deal" with Honest. That isn't properly dealing with Honest at all. That's more like cutting your losses. I'll chalk it up to the general progression of the game and having to handle whatever situation arises but there are some things that are too good.

 

Also, I never said that Honest should be hit with a place on the restricition lists but rather a discussion indicating his impact on the meta and whether it was for the better or not.

 

LS has issues but it doesn't require the game to nerf it to oblivion because people can't cope with it. JD is the boss monster of the archetype and needs a Limited Status much like DAD. Look at how much DAD decks died as soon as DAD hit the limited list. The consistency of a OTK scenario that is dependant on a card drops significantly when it becomes limited.

 

Why you consider Wulf ban worthy is beyond me. It's a give and take card that has plenty of drawbacks to it. The minute you draw into Wulf it becomes a dead card and thus fodder for whatever LS Support like Lumina and Solar Recharge or certain cost cards like Lightning Vortex. More often than not it screws the player over since they usually draw into it rather than mil it. The odd time they get lucky and mil multiple copies of Wulf is the type of reward you should be getting when running a card like that. What's so incredibly offensive about the card? A 2100 beat stick is hardly something to be concerned about when Synchro Swarming is far more consistent and faster than milling Wulf. Anyways, I'm getting beyond the point of this discussion so I'll cut it off here.

[Tronta]

alright well, i think the points can be summarized here:

sts on the field are different from honest in the hand. they arent directly comparable, and it's asinine to do so, honestly. they require different cards, different strategies and different ways of dealing with them. and lets not forget that honest isnt just one for one removal, he's one for one removal that can be played on either players turn without setting something. he also inflicts damage. so he's not just sakuretsu, he's a cylinder too. if they made a combination sakuretsu+cylinder, it might be banworthy too.

 

but i like this guys comment. it's cutting your losses, and it's obnoxious.

 

moving on.

-jd limited wont do anything. he's too recyclable with beckoning.

-wulf is bad for the game. he's a +1 cydra that's just.. obnoxious really.

-in my idea of a perfect game, synchros wouldnt exist. i think duct-taping an infinitely powerful, all purpose tool box onto any deck just by adding a plaguespreader to it is pretty funked up.

[Flame Dragon]

Except Honest has the additional ability to discard 3 and deal some massive damage to your opponent and even cause a OTK or a reverse kill. Stop comparing Honest to a S/T that causes monster destruction. The 2 are completely different since you can chain a ton of things to S/T's then a monster effect that activates in your hand during the Damage Step.

As I've already said 3 Honests is a problem. How many cards can you chain to something like Sakuretsu. By my count it's Bribe and Solemn. However I'm sure I missing a couple of cards' date=' however it is still a small number meaning the odds of you having that card right when you need it are small.

 

You must be kidding me when you say Stardust should be banned. Stardust is a tech card it's not an all powerful being that breaks the game. It stops BS generic destruction cards that are rather borderline at this point. There are a ton of cards in the game that can deal with Stardust as soon as he hits the field or the next turn after.

Stardust stops all destruction meaning once you get one out it becomes very hard for the opponent to make any come back. It's lets the controler overextended with out any fear of repercoustion because you have him to keep from any major losses.

 

Their are tons of cards that stop Chaos Sorcerer as soon as it hits the field so lets not ban that.

 

Would you waste a Book of the Moon and E-Con on a guess that your opponent has Honest in their hand? It's not that easy reading what your opponent has in their hand despite cards like Trap Dust Shoot.

If you opponent has out a Lumina and you have something that can easily run over her odds are they have an Honest.

 

An over powered card doesn't necessarily break the game. Venomnaga has an overpowered effect with abilities to win the duel and rather easily once it hits the field' date=' however, the summoning conditions are so incredibly hard to meet that its not broken.

[/quote']

So your saying Destiny Board is overpowered? Cause it takes time to set up but once you do you win. You can't just look at the part, you need to look at the whole

 

Honest is sort of like that. It's over powered in that it ensures your Light monster wins the battle phase and potentially win you the duel if you have 3x honest in your hand and your opponent happens to have a beefy monster on the field. It has virtually no risk involved and is essentially a staple in any LIGHT based deck. The balancing factor is that it must remain in a LIGHT based deck which limits the type of options you have when deck building.

Shrink does the same thing in that it ensures your monster wins the battle. The 3x use is a problem. Their is no risk in using a lot of cards.

 

That's the issue though it's because you HAVE to lose a monster to or utilize a S/T that you wouldn't normally use in that situation to "deal" with Honest. That isn't properly dealing with Honest at all. That's more like cutting your losses. I'll chalk it up to the general progression of the game and having to handle whatever situation arises but there are some things that are too good.

This I'll have to give you.

 

 

LS has issues but it doesn't require the game to nerf it to oblivion because people can't cope with it. JD is the boss monster of the archetype and needs a Limited Status much like DAD. Look at how much DAD decks died as soon as DAD hit the limited list. The consistency of a OTK scenario that is dependant on a card drops significantly when it becomes limited.

You shouldn't have to cope with a 3000 ATK nuker. Just because the odds drop doesn't mean it won't happen. You only need one JD to win. Putting a card at 1 does make the problem come less often' date=' but the simple fact is the problem is still there.

 

 

Why you consider Wulf ban worthy is beyond me. It's a give and take card that has plenty of drawbacks to it. The minute you draw into Wulf it becomes a dead card and thus fodder for whatever LS Support like Lumina and Solar Recharge or certain cost cards like Lightning Vortex. More often than not it screws the player over since they usually draw into it rather than mil it. The odd time they get lucky and mil multiple copies of Wulf is the type of reward you should be getting when running a card like that. What's so incredibly offensive about the card? A 2100 beat stick is hardly something to be concerned about when Synchro Swarming is far more consistent and faster than milling Wulf. Anyways, I'm getting beyond the point of this discussion so I'll cut it off here.

Wolf is one of the best examples of luck based cards. A good ban list wants as much skill as possible, however Wolf just laughs at it. It can be a dead draw, as you said, or a 2100 attack beatstick that comes from no where.

 

Also when talking about banning Wolf I'm talk about a ban list that has at least 50 other cards banned.

[Killey]

Stardust stops all destruction meaning once you get one out it becomes very hard for the opponent to make any come back. It's lets the controler overextended with out any fear of repercoustion because you have him to keep from any major losses.

 

All Stardust does is change how people build their decks. People began removing Torrential Tribute and Mirror Force from their decks once Stardust was released. It doesn't mean Stardust is broken to a point where he needs to be banned. Numerous times I've mulling over whether to Summon Stardust or Thought Ruler Archfiend due to the cards that are being played today because it's that easy to deal with Stardust. He can get Solemn'd, CED, PWWB, etc... If he survives the turn he's summoned the next turn its just as easy to Summon Goyo Guardian to steal him or Brionac to bounce him. Hell, Level 4 BW then SS Gale for an easy attack over is possible as well. Brain Control, Book of Moon, and Mind Control can deal with Stardust as well. In comparison to Honest those are all acceptable uses of those cards to handle an immediate threat.

 

Stardust isn't even a card I consider overpowered as it hardly provides a lockdown to a great extent. With the current pool of cards I find Stardust balanced. His stats were well thought out as it carries enough presence to make you be concerned while at the same time having a ton of answers to dispose of him.

 

If you opponent has out a Lumina and you have something that can easily run over her odds are they have an Honest.

 

Unless your opponent opens up with something like Solar Recharge, Lumina->Garoth for mil and draw power. Some people just accept the fact that Lumina is going to get run over because that's the nature of her. More times than not it's something you want to start with to get early mil/field advantage because you want to mil cards like PSZ, Mezuki, X-Sabers, Necro Gardna, Shining G, Wulfs and other LS to meet JD's requirements. A lot of time she is an acceptable loss in LP. You can't tell me you can put your opponent on having an Honest in their hand based on a play like that. You can't put your opponent in having an Honest in their hand unless they do something really obvious but even then they could bluff into having an Honest in their hand. However, that is part of the game.

 

So your saying Destiny Board is overpowered? Cause it takes time to set up but once you do you win. You can't just look at the part, you need to look at the whole.

 

No, I'm not saying Destiny Board is overpowerd based on a win condition. I should be more clear Venomnaga is more overpowered because of her accumulation of effects on top of the win condition. She's probably a poor example.

 

Dark Simorgh is an over powered card since it contains easy Special Summoning requirements and can be consistently revived. It also provides one of the fiercest lock down strategies in the game locking your opponent from setting cards altogether rending trap cards useless and with Anti-Spell Fragrance prevent your opponent from using Spells as well. I don't find it utterly broken as it requires specific builds and is not as splashable as other cards but it's effect is definitely over powered. Yes, he can win you games and there is less cards that can deal with how the game is played today he can be dealt with the next turn.

 

I had someone summon Stardust and Dark Simorgh in one turn against me and dealt some good damage against me. I was able to reverse the situation the very next turn with a Dark Simorgh of my own to attack over Stardust then a Lightning Vortex to clear his Dark Simorgh before summoning a Stardust of my own to end the turn.

 

Shrink does the same thing in that it ensures your monster wins the battle. The 3x use is a problem. Their is no risk in using a lot of cards.

 

Shrink is a lower risk card but it does not guarantee you the battle like Honest does. You must ensure your monster has enough ATK to win the battle in the first place. Shrinking an enemy against a face-up Ryko doesn't help 90% of the time. Honest on the other hand makes Ryko indestructable by battle for the ENTIRE TURN.

 

You shouldn't have to cope with a 3000 ATK nuker. Just because the odds drop doesn't mean it won't happen. You only need one JD to win. Putting a card at 1 does make the problem come less often, but the simple fact is the problem is still there.

 

It's a no brainer win but coupled with the risk of milling JD and milling the cards to revive him makes JD fine at 1, imo. I thought DAD should have been flat out banned but him at 1 just makes him a tech choice in current decks. He's still an offensive card but I don't find him as BS as I use to. More often than not his consistency at showing up in a duel is very small. Now, I'm not saying I would be annoyed if both cards were banned but I don't really see the necessity in doing it.

[Flame Dragon]

All Stardust does is change how people build their decks. People began removing Torrential Tribute and Mirror Force from their decks once Stardust was released. It doesn't mean Stardust is broken to a point where he needs to be banned. Numerous times I've mulling over whether to Summon Stardust or Thought Ruler Archfiend due to the cards that are being played today because it's that easy to deal with Stardust. He can get Solemn'd' date=' CED, PWWB, etc... If he survives the turn he's summoned the next turn its just as easy to Summon Goyo Guardian to steal him or Brionac to bounce him. Hell, Level 4 BW then SS Gale for an easy attack over is possible as well. Brain Control, Book of Moon, and Mind Control can deal with Stardust as well. In comparison to Honest those are all acceptable uses of those cards to handle an immediate threat.

 

Stardust isn't even a card I consider overpowered as it hardly provides a lockdown to a great extent. With the current pool of cards I find Stardust balanced. His stats were well thought out as it carries enough presence to make you be concerned while at the same time having a ton of answers to dispose of him.

[/quote']

Your thinking to much in this meta. Bans are based in on a good ban list. As such a lot of the cards you think are balancing Stardust now, will be gone.

 

Also counter ability =/= balance.

 

Dark Simorgh is an over powered card since it contains easy Special Summoning requirements and can be consistently revived. It also provides one of the fiercest lock down strategies in the game locking your opponent from setting cards altogether rending trap cards useless and with Anti-Spell Fragrance prevent your opponent from using Spells as well. I don't find it utterly broken as it requires specific builds and is not as splashable as other cards but it's effect is definitely over powered. Yes' date=' he can win you games and there is less cards that can deal with how the game is played today he can be dealt with the next turn.

[/quote']

That isn't over powered, that is just powerful. The word "over powered" means it is too powerful. If something is too powerful something needs to be done about it.

 

It's a no brainer win but coupled with the risk of milling JD and milling the cards to revive him makes JD fine at 1' date=' imo. I thought DAD should have been flat out banned but him at 1 just makes him a tech choice in current decks. He's still an offensive card but I don't find him as BS as I use to. More often than not his consistency at showing up in a duel is very small. Now, I'm not saying I would be annoyed if both cards were banned but I don't really see the necessity in doing it.

[/quote']

What if that doesn't happen. Sure it will sometimes happen but not always. There will always be times when your opponent can simply come from no where drop a JD and then just kill you. JD does nothing good for the game. The same goes for DAD. Their will be times when he totaly swing the duel in the favor of one person, and one card should not be able to do that. The point of the ban list is to take a way as much luck as possible, as such it should toally stop the opponent from winning because they happened to get lucky and draw into a 2800 ATK beatstick that can destory most of your field, or a 3000 ATK field nuker

[Jonnyfive]

1 Honest = Sakaretsu and a DIRECT ATTACK from your monster..not a cylinder.

2nd and 3rd Honests are Cylinders.

So why is Cylinder limited but not honest? lol

and not attacking doesn't save you, your opponent can honest during their turn as well...

"dooooyyyy...i think you have honest, so I wont attack" "i have honest, i attack *win"

[Tronta]

@johnny five

1- duh. thank you. i was trying to find a two card combination that fit it. the closest is cylinder+sakuretsu. its not entirely accurate, but it isnt an amazing difference most of the time.

2- yes, the 2nd and 3rd are cylinders... just.. ugh. i got it, i get it, theres no card equivalent off the top of my head though, save some sort of weird one-sided ring of destruction.

3- cylinder is limited because this game used to be fair.

 

@charizard

dark simorgh is overpowered.

 

@lightsworns

a deck based on lucksacking is bad for the game.

[Killey]

Your thinking to much in this meta. Bans are based in on a good ban list. As such a lot of the cards you think are balancing Stardust now, will be gone.

 

Also counter ability =/= balance.

 

If we are going by your standards than we have to discuss the ban list as a whole and this isn't the point of the conversation at all. If we are looking at the current ban list with the current metagame intact then Stardust in itself is not ban worthy at all. If you want to discuss the forbidden list as a whole then we need a separate thread for that

 

What if that doesn't happen. Sure it will sometimes happen but not always. There will always be times when your opponent can simply come from no where drop a JD and then just kill you. JD does nothing good for the game. The same goes for DAD. Their will be times when he totaly swing the duel in the favor of one person, and one card should not be able to do that. The point of the ban list is to take a way as much luck as possible, as such it should toally stop the opponent from winning because they happened to get lucky and draw into a 2800 ATK beatstick that can destory most of your field, or a 3000 ATK field nuker

 

A card game will always be dependent on luck because you are relying on the luck of the draw. Regardless, I agree that JD and DAD are cards that aren't good for the game but I'm not going to advocate for their bans right now. If they get banned so be it if they don't then I'll be fine with it.

[Jonnyfive]

@johnny five

1- duh. thank you. i was trying to find a two card combination that fit it. the closest is cylinder+sakuretsu. its not entirely accurate' date=' but it isnt an amazing difference most of the time.

2- yes, the 2nd and 3rd are cylinders... just.. ugh. i got it, i get it, theres no card equivalent off the top of my head though, save some sort of weird one-sided ring of destruction.

3- cylinder is limited because this game used to be fair.

 

@charizard

dark simorgh is overpowered.

 

@lightsworns

a deck based on lucksacking is bad for the game.

[/quote']

 

well, you can't limit honest just because if you stack it, it becomes a cylinder. its "too situational." you can't even semi limit it, because the circumstances are far too situational for most people to ever have to worry about 3. I think eventually, it might make its way to semi..but no more than that (unless Konami was just wanting to make a sh** load of money off of that twilight pack and than shatter everyone"s hopes and dreams by taking Honest away again. lol)

there are actually a lot of ways to deal with Honest, as I found out at my last tournament. With Battermen, Fairies, Lightsworn, etc it is extremely difficult, but for a "twilight" (I hate konami just for introducing that term...) deck its not so difficult. You just focus your destructions on their light monsters..or mind control/brain them before they have the chance to use it.

Our tournaments are 5 rounds and the majority of our good players were at our regionals...I was 2 and 3..which is WORSE than usual. Its because people saw me coming with Honest and would take out my Malevolent and Paladin with Sakaretsu, BTH, Mind, Brain, LV, Torrent, etc.

My only ace was that everyone kept forgetting the calculator was a light attribute and would waste their time getting rid of the other monsters on my field that increase its power..

So honest isn't really THAT OP'd, its just fearsome...like Kalut. IMO Honest was meant to give deck's that aren't quite meta a chance to get there and GIVE A BIT A DIVERSITY TO THE META. That's all we need..

[Tronta]

 

well' date=' you can't limit honest just because if you stack it, it becomes a cylinder. its [b']"too situational." (lolno. you must have little experience in the meta. stacking is easy in ls. they mill out half the honests first turn and recycle them with beckoning light. its easy.)[/b] you can't even semi limit it, because the circumstances are far too situational for most people to ever have to worry about 3. (same as above) I think eventually, it might make its way to semi..but no more than that (lolno) (unless Konami was just wanting to make a sh** load of money off of that twilight pack and than shatter everyone"s hopes and dreams by taking Honest away again. lol)

there are actually a lot of ways to deal with Honest, as I found out at my last tournament. With Battermen (lolwut?), Fairies (lolcounterfairies, or lolkristya not in ls), Lightsworn, etc it is extremely difficult, but for a "twilight" (I hate konami just for introducing that term... (i feel like this term existed prior to konamis intervention. if not, it was a cool not-vampiric word at the time) deck its not so difficult. You just focus your destructions on their light monsters..or mind control/brain them before they have the chance to use it. (killey's point: this isnt strategy or working around, it's cutting your losses and it sickens me that one should have to based on a card in the opponents hand.

Our tournaments are 5 rounds and the majority of our good players were at our regionals (with batterymen? lol)...I was 2 and 3..which is WORSE than usual. Its because people saw me coming with Honest and would take out my Malevolent and Paladin (skilldrain zombies? ew. furthermore, you're running honests with only 2 light monsters? even at 3 each that's only 6 targets. 8 if you count the honests, assuming you run 3. bad play) with Sakaretsu (this in regionals? what? stop attacking when they have set sts), BTH, Mind, Brain, LV, Torrent, etc.

My only ace was that everyone kept forgetting the calculator was a light attribute (once more, this in regionals? what? your regionals must suck. and would waste their time (this is acceptable counter calculator strategy.) getting rid of the other monsters on my field that increase its power..

So honest isn't really THAT OP'd (its an otk machine and a costless, cant miss the timing, easily recyclable, neigh invincible and uncounterable sakuretsu+damage. and it has 1900 defense. whats not op'd?, its just fearsome...like Kalut. IMO Honest was meant to give deck's that aren't quite meta a chance to get there and GIVE A BIT A DIVERSITY TO THE META. (lolwut? the only deck this helps bring into the meta is ls. way to breed diversity. didnt they have 8 out of 16 of the last jump tops? didnt see fairies. didnt see batterymen. if you want diversity, give waters or earths an honest. or funking fires. giving it to lights is like giving a fat kid a cake. or taking a sheet in a garbage dump. or trolling /b/. That's all we need..

 

everything bolded is wrong, stupid, laughable, or otherwise a problem for the reasons in quotes.