Dark Armed Dragon - Is it in the same group as Heavy Storm and Torrential Tribute?

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

[spoiler=Have fun reading]Torrential and Heavy Storm offer similar risks to both players. Torrential wipes your own field of monsters' date=' Heavy Storm wipes your own field of Spells and Traps. Both players are likely to carry one in their decks. The risks and benefits are the same. Using Torrential too early will leave you vulnerable to a possible swarm later. Very often, I've summoned a monster, had the field Torrential-ed by my opponent, and then applied a series of Special Summons I had been withholding. Waiting too long to use Torrential can lead to your opponent not Summoning any more once they have sufficient field presence. This is partly why Torrential is more skill-based. It has a specific trigger that applies to both players.

 

Heavy Storm...is a very complicated card when one tries to analyze its power. Often it will only be used when you have no S/Ts, making it the equivalent of Harpie's Feather Duster, a very overpowered card. However, unlike Harpie's, it WILL affect your field and using it can often be an internal decision of whether you can afford to destroy your own cards, if applicable, to destroy the opponent's. You may often withhold Heavy Storm to keep your own cards safe, allowing your opponent's own S/Ts to remain un-nuked for this time. Also, when you start laying S/Ts, players have to consider the odds of the opponent having a Heavy Storm and will find it wiser to conserve their S/Ts until later. A weaker player may set four S/Ts whereas a smarter, more skilled player may only set two.

 

Mirror Force is similar, in regards to how an opponent views their opponent's backrow. If they think one of the cards is Mirror Force, they'll hesitate to swarm the field. Sometimes you may even withhold Mirror Force's activation until the opponent has gained a sense of false security and becomes more reckless, or the timing of Mirror Force is more beneficial to you. Mirror Force creates a psychological game merely by its existence and forces players to think more about their actions when they attack. Unlike cards like Sakuretsu Armor, Mirror Force can blast all monsters in ATK position and so should not be rushed into. This forces players to STRATEGIZE about how they plan to attack or what they should wait for before proceeding. This is skillful play.

 

Dark Armed Dragon, however, creates one-sided advantage, and not just a little advantage, like other destruction effects. This card has a massive 2800 ATK, has no cost to its summon besides from a specific number of DARK monsters. DARK is one of the most well-supported attributes in the game and most of their cards have powerful effects in additional to being versatile. Some notable DARKs include Blackwings, Infernity, Reptilianne, a lot of Zombies, most fiends, etc. A lot of the DARK Counterpart monsters, most from PTDN focus a lot on Grave Control. Pot of Avarice helps with grave control. Grave control is one of the most simplistic strategies in the game now and can be done with relative ease.

 

Unlike Storm/Torrential/Mirror Force, there is little anyone can do to skillfully evade this card, short of negating its Summon or Effect. It doesn't force an opponent to think their moves over carefully before rushing towards victory. It doesn't make them think of whether or not to destroy your cards. All it does is give you a massive advantage if they don't have an immediate answer.

 

JD is a similar problem. It requires only 4 different Lightsworns in the graveyard and the Lightsworn MILL your cards, so it won't take long to do that. Then for a mere 1000 LP, it nukes the entire field. Except for itself. A 3000 monster...nukes the entire field but itself. Demise, King of the Armageddon did the same thing, but was a 2400 Ritual monster that required 2000 LP. And that thing got limited/semi so fast after release. What they're thinking letting JD be @2...

 

But I digress. DAD has similar destructive power to JD. For next to no cost, it can blast your opponent's cards. It can almost be argued DAD is WORSE than JD, because at least JD nukes your cards too, and requires you to play a theme (Lightsworn), whereas DAD is absurdly splashable in decks running DARKs and gives quick, simple advantage. Sure, only 3 cards, but when this thing's out, what are the odds your opponent is going to have a lot of cards out for long? Zombies/Blackwing/DARK counterpart decks fuel the grave easily and so DAD gets more ammo for its effect. With its high ATK and the preservation of your own field presence, this card alone gives a MASSIVE advantage.

 

The only skill it needs is for you to add cards that allow grave control and to run DARKs. That's not skill. You don't even need to think about grave control beyond "remove all but 3 DARKs". This card is way too powerful for its ease of summon. Maybe if it could only nuke one card a turn, instead of unlimited, then it wouldn't be that bad. But as it is, this card is overpowered.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Thank you captain obvious.

[Rose]

[spoiler=Have fun reading]Torrential and Heavy Storm offer similar risks to both players. Torrential wipes your own field of monsters' date=' Heavy Storm wipes your own field of Spells and Traps. Both players are likely to carry one in their decks. The risks and benefits are the same. Using Torrential too early will leave you vulnerable to a possible swarm later. Very often, I've summoned a monster, had the field Torrential-ed by my opponent, and then applied a series of Special Summons I had been withholding. Waiting too long to use Torrential can lead to your opponent not Summoning any more once they have sufficient field presence. This is partly why Torrential is more skill-based. It has a specific trigger that applies to both players.

 

Heavy Storm...is a very complicated card when one tries to analyze its power. Often it will only be used when you have no S/Ts, making it the equivalent of Harpie's Feather Duster, a very overpowered card. However, unlike Harpie's, it WILL affect your field and using it can often be an internal decision of whether you can afford to destroy your own cards, if applicable, to destroy the opponent's. You may often withhold Heavy Storm to keep your own cards safe, allowing your opponent's own S/Ts to remain un-nuked for this time. Also, when you start laying S/Ts, players have to consider the odds of the opponent having a Heavy Storm and will find it wiser to conserve their S/Ts until later. A weaker player may set four S/Ts whereas a smarter, more skilled player may only set two.

 

Mirror Force is similar, in regards to how an opponent views their opponent's backrow. If they think one of the cards is Mirror Force, they'll hesitate to swarm the field. Sometimes you may even withhold Mirror Force's activation until the opponent has gained a sense of false security and becomes more reckless, or the timing of Mirror Force is more beneficial to you. Mirror Force creates a psychological game merely by its existence and forces players to think more about their actions when they attack. Unlike cards like Sakuretsu Armor, Mirror Force can blast all monsters in ATK position and so should not be rushed into. This forces players to STRATEGIZE about how they plan to attack or what they should wait for before proceeding. This is skillful play.

 

Dark Armed Dragon, however, creates one-sided advantage, and not just a little advantage, like other destruction effects. This card has a massive 2800 ATK, has no cost to its summon besides from a specific number of DARK monsters. DARK is one of the most well-supported attributes in the game and most of their cards have powerful effects in additional to being versatile. Some notable DARKs include Blackwings, Infernity, Reptilianne, a lot of Zombies, most fiends, etc. A lot of the DARK Counterpart monsters, most from PTDN focus a lot on Grave Control. Pot of Avarice helps with grave control. Grave control is one of the most simplistic strategies in the game now and can be done with relative ease.

 

Unlike Storm/Torrential/Mirror Force, there is little anyone can do to skillfully evade this card, short of negating its Summon or Effect. It doesn't force an opponent to think their moves over carefully before rushing towards victory. It doesn't make them think of whether or not to destroy your cards. All it does is give you a massive advantage if they don't have an immediate answer.

 

JD is a similar problem. It requires only 4 different Lightsworns in the graveyard and the Lightsworn MILL your cards, so it won't take long to do that. Then for a mere 1000 LP, it nukes the entire field. Except for itself. A 3000 monster...nukes the entire field but itself. Demise, King of the Armageddon did the same thing, but was a 2400 Ritual monster that required 2000 LP. And that thing got limited/semi so fast after release. What they're thinking letting JD be @2...

 

But I digress. DAD has similar destructive power to JD. For next to no cost, it can blast your opponent's cards. It can almost be argued DAD is WORSE than JD, because at least JD nukes your cards too, and requires you to play a theme (Lightsworn), whereas DAD is absurdly splashable in decks running DARKs and gives quick, simple advantage. Sure, only 3 cards, but when this thing's out, what are the odds your opponent is going to have a lot of cards out for long? Zombies/Blackwing/DARK counterpart decks fuel the grave easily and so DAD gets more ammo for its effect. With its high ATK and the preservation of your own field presence, this card alone gives a MASSIVE advantage.

 

The only skill it needs is for you to add cards that allow grave control and to run DARKs. That's not skill. You don't even need to think about grave control beyond "remove all but 3 DARKs". This card is way too powerful for its ease of summon. Maybe if it could only nuke one card a turn, instead of unlimited, then it wouldn't be that bad. But as it is, this card is overpowered.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Thank you captain obvious.

 

Thank you aswell captain obvious.

 

You just pointed out something obvious that was obvious.

 

:], but he still makes a very good point, even if it is obvious.

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

It doesn't work, because when I said it, it was fine.

 

You just wrecked it.

 

All he did was point out obvious things.

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

DAD is different than HS and TT because it turns the game around even if your opponent didn't overextend.

 

This is the first comment I've read that actually has some thought behind it, most everything else is just stating the obvious with no real backing behind it except "it's obvious" for the most part.

 

It's been a while since I've faced a DAD, I'm usually the one using it, so that probably has some bearing on my opinion.

 

When I stated that grave control takes skill to to effectively, I meant that sure, anyone can clear their grave to 3 DARK monsters, but figuring out which 3 to leave is sometimes a problem. It's not rocket science, but not just anyone can effectively clear their grave to the best 3 DARKs in the grave.

[evilfusion]

Even if my statements were "obvious", I was comparing the cards and their effects on the game and strategizing in order to address the point of discussion: Is DAD a skillful card/is it good for the game? My answer is "no" and rather than simply saying "No, it's broken", I explained the distinctions between how cards like Heavy Storm, Mirror Force, and Torrential Tribute are good for the game whereas DAD is not.

 

I attempted to take the topic question as a serious question that wanted an answer and elaboration. Too often I see discussions that decry/hype a card's use, but treat their opinion/belief/truth as such common knowledge that they don't elaborate. I apologize for elaborating in order to make the distinctions a little clearer to those who might not know what makes a card broken and overpowered vs a card that promotes skill. At least I know that my thoughts are accurate, considering how obvious they are.

[Bassa]

Though you make a good point DAZ, I still think this is a card worthy of a ban. To me it is just too OP.

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

Even if my statements were "obvious"' date=' I was comparing the cards and their effects on the game and strategizing in order to address the point of discussion: Is DAD a skillful card/is it good for the game? My answer is "no" and rather than simply saying "No, it's broken", I explained the distinctions between how cards like Heavy Storm, Mirror Force, and Torrential Tribute are good for the game whereas DAD is not.

 

I attempted to take the topic question as a serious question that wanted an answer and elaboration. Too often I see discussions that decry/hype a card's use, but treat their opinion/belief/truth as such common knowledge that they don't elaborate. I apologize for elaborating in order to make the distinctions a little clearer to those who might not know what makes a card broken and overpowered vs a card that promotes skill. At least I know that my thoughts are accurate, considering how obvious they are.

[/quote']

 

I respect your opinion, but I wasn't speaking to you. Even though your reasons may be "obvious" you are actually stating them in a well, thought out method and put forth the knowledge for further discussion. To me, DAD is ban able, but only just. The constant threat of DAD persuades people to think their moves through and be cautious, but I understand that it's one-sided advantage that is always atleast a +0 unless it's summon is negated, so it is definitely ban-worthy.

[evilfusion]

I was actually addressing Kyosuke Kiryu on that one (should have quoted). He referred to my whole elaboration as stating the obvious.

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

Meh, still fits.

[Zauls]

This card can dodge Starlight Road and still be a -3 to your opponent. I run it wherever possible. This card has some weeknesses of course, like BTH, but that is the same with most of these cards. I am fine with it at 1 though, its just JD that needs to be banned.

[RAEGING D0GKING]

Its not affected to Starlight Road

WIN!!!

Its better than TT or Heavy Storm since you can get rid of there monsters and s/t and you still stay with a Powerful monster.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

DAD is different than HS and TT because it turns the game around even if your opponent didn't overextend.

 

This is the first comment I've read that actually has some thought behind it' date=' most everything else is just stating the obvious with no real backing behind it except "it's obvious" for the most part.

 

It's been a while since I've faced a DAD, I'm usually the one using it, so that probably has some bearing on my opinion.

 

When I stated that grave control takes skill to to effectively, I meant that sure, anyone can clear their grave to 3 DARK monsters, but figuring out which 3 to leave is sometimes a problem. It's not rocket science, but not just anyone can effectively clear their grave to the best 3 DARKs in the grave.

[/quote']

 

Let me give you an example-- I was playing infernity recently, against BW. I got nearly OTKd on the first turn, had dead cards in hand, and had yet to use the effect of a single infernity. However, I had three darks in grave. I won that duel, with dark armed as the only monster, and doing nothing but protected DAD and tossing extra darks in the grave to fuel him. No thought whatsoever needed, because I knew I couldn't use the monsters in my grave. Burning a monster for DAD is almost always more helpful than leaving a dark in the grave out of the hopes you'll use it later.

[Canadian]

to promote skill?

 

Not at all... If DAD gets out, the duel usually becomes one-sided.

[Expelsword]

My friend said today that if Deckmasters were official, he would pick DAD, to which I responded, I'll pick Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode