BKSS gives me a fucking headache

[Tronta]

did you know herald of orange can activate during the damage step? cuz i sure as hell didnt. cost me a god damn game too.

 

seriously, funk this sheet.

[deathghost101]

I do have a problem with herald of orange light's effect once in a while.......its bull.

[Tronta]

no seriously, this is my challenge:

ATTENTION YCM

IF ANYONE CAN EXPLAIN TO ME REASONABLY, LOGICALLY, AND RATIONALLY WHY HERALD OF ORANGE LIGHT GETS TO ACTIVATE DURING THE DAMAGE STEP, I WILL AWARD YOU THREE REPS.

 

of course, i have to accept this explanation. you cant just BKSS me or say 'oh horus 8 can so orange can'. doesnt work.

why does a spell speed two optional effect get to ride into the elite damage step club.

[JadenxAtemYAOI]

To possibly stop the LV cards, Incrase ATK during damage step, Kill Flame Wingman, kill Nitro Warrior, Kill Ben Kei, Kill Dreadroot, kill Blowback Dragon, kill etc.

[-Griffin]

...ignoring the above.

 

I believe a lot of monsters that negate get to. I'd be surprised if Green/Purple couldn't too.

[Dark Seraphim]

no seriously' date=' this is my challenge:

ATTENTION YCM

IF ANYONE CAN EXPLAIN TO ME REASONABLY, LOGICALLY, AND RATIONALLY WHY HERALD OF ORANGE LIGHT GETS TO ACTIVATE DURING THE DAMAGE STEP, I WILL AWARD YOU THREE REPS.

 

of course, i have to accept this explanation. you cant just BKSS me or say 'oh horus 8 can so orange can'. doesnt work.

why does a spell speed two optional effect get to ride into the elite damage step club.

[/quote']

 

Maybe because it can stop a effect that increases or decreases atk and that being the only condition the damage step needs (to be able to increase or decrease atk and stopping this counts as decreasing or increasing atk).

 

- Player A has Lumina and attacks Player B's Goyo.

- Player B does not react.

- Player A plays Honest in the damage step because Honest can increase Lumina's atk.

- Player B plays Orange Light because it stops the increase and thereby has something to do with the increase/decrease condition that is needed to be played in the damage step.

 

Or something like that??? At least thats what i think ^^

[GenzoTheHarpist]

Generally cards that negate other cards (even if spell speed two) can activate in the damage step. Horus, stardust, heraklinos, all the heralds, all are covered by this.

[Azuh]

I always thought it did activate in the Damage Step >_>

[Expelsword]

Stardust is used by the Main Character, he's in the e-leet club for sure

 

but I dunno, I think Konami just makes it up as they go along... if I had so many cards floating around I'd have trouble being consistent too

[Canadian]

seriously' date=' f[b']eel[/b] this shoe.

 

That what you were going for? d:

 

ITT: Herald of Orange light is byfar the best Herald (aside from its ritual friend). Most Fairy Decks should run this. The best part about it is that they made it a Tuner too. Love it.

[Tronta]

no seriously' date=' this is my challenge:

ATTENTION YCM

IF ANYONE CAN EXPLAIN TO ME REASONABLY, LOGICALLY, AND RATIONALLY WHY HERALD OF ORANGE LIGHT GETS TO ACTIVATE DURING THE DAMAGE STEP, I WILL AWARD YOU THREE REPS.

 

of course, i have to accept this explanation. you cant just BKSS me or say 'oh horus 8 can so orange can'. doesnt work.

why does a spell speed two optional effect get to ride into the elite damage step club.

[/quote']

 

Maybe because it can stop a effect that increases or decreases atk and that being the only condition the damage step needs (to be able to increase or decrease atk and stopping this counts as decreasing or increasing atk).

 

- Player A has Lumina and attacks Player B's Goyo.

- Player B does not react.

- Player A plays Honest in the damage step because Honest can increase Lumina's atk.

- Player B plays Orange Light because it stops the increase and thereby has something to do with the increase/decrease condition that is needed to be played in the damage step.

 

Or something like that??? At least thats what i think ^^

 

makes the most sense out of anything here' date=' if not for this:

 

Generally cards that negate other cards (even if spell speed two) can activate in the damage step. Horus, stardust, heraklinos, all the heralds, all are covered by this.

 

when horus was released there were probably very, very few quickplay magic that modified attack and defense. rush recklessly comes to mind. i dont know how many were playable at the time. i'm not an expert on yugimans history, but i think shrink came after horus 8. i dont even know what horus 8 could theoretically stop that went off in damage step in his era.

based on that, i'd like to argue that they gave horus damage step permission for very little reason, regardless of what tactical sheet he could or couldnt negate. honestly i think horus just gets into the cool kids club because he's worded so ugly. did you know he can go off multiple times in the same chain? thats retarded.

 

and stardust goes in the same boat. there are few, if any effects that both modify stats and blow up a monster, and can be activated damage step. and stardust definitely can NOT stop counter traps that would destroy things. so that leaves me with the believe that this stardust ruling was designed to stop ryko. and maybe old vindictive.

 

 

it looks like the most logical explanation is that they gave the privilege to negation cards. looking around i see no rulings that say heraklinos can activate damage step, so i'm going to assume he can not. but given their fetish for negation cards activating with retard speed, why isnt oppression allowed to activate damage step? think of all those damn searchers that need balancing!

 

i'm not awarding reps to the argument that konami allowed them because they can negate things. this is not a category in the damage step club. nor am i accepting that its a balancing factor, because the problem with cards like honest and kalut isnt the fact that the can activate damage step. the problem is that they're honest and motherfucking kalut.

 

seriously. da funk konami.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

no seriously' date=' this is my challenge:

ATTENTION YCM

IF ANYONE CAN EXPLAIN TO ME REASONABLY, LOGICALLY, AND RATIONALLY WHY HERALD OF ORANGE LIGHT GETS TO ACTIVATE DURING THE DAMAGE STEP, I WILL AWARD YOU THREE REPS.

 

of course, i have to accept this explanation. you cant just BKSS me or say 'oh horus 8 can so orange can'. doesnt work.

why does a spell speed two optional effect get to ride into the elite damage step club.

[/quote']

 

Maybe because it can stop a effect that increases or decreases atk and that being the only condition the damage step needs (to be able to increase or decrease atk and stopping this counts as decreasing or increasing atk).

 

- Player A has Lumina and attacks Player B's Goyo.

- Player B does not react.

- Player A plays Honest in the damage step because Honest can increase Lumina's atk.

- Player B plays Orange Light because it stops the increase and thereby has something to do with the increase/decrease condition that is needed to be played in the damage step.

 

Or something like that??? At least thats what i think ^^

 

makes the most sense out of anything here' date=' if not for this:

 

Generally cards that negate other cards (even if spell speed two) can activate in the damage step. Horus, stardust, heraklinos, all the heralds, all are covered by this.

 

when horus was released there were probably very, very few quickplay magic that modified attack and defense. rush recklessly comes to mind. i dont know how many were playable at the time. i'm not an expert on yugimans history, but i think shrink came after horus 8. i dont even know what horus 8 could theoretically stop that went off in damage step in his era.

based on that, i'd like to argue that they gave horus damage step permission for very little reason, regardless of what tactical s*** he could or couldnt negate. honestly i think horus just gets into the cool kids club because he's worded so ugly. did you know he can go off multiple times in the same chain? thats retarded.

 

and stardust goes in the same boat. there are few, if any effects that both modify stats and blow up a monster, and can be activated damage step. and stardust definitely can NOT stop counter traps that would destroy things. so that leaves me with the believe that this stardust ruling was designed to stop ryko. and maybe old vindictive.

 

 

it looks like the most logical explanation is that they gave the privilege to negation cards. looking around i see no rulings that say heraklinos can activate damage step, so i'm going to assume he can not. but given their fetish for negation cards activating with retard speed, why isnt oppression allowed to activate damage step? think of all those damn searchers that need balancing!

 

i'm not awarding reps to the argument that konami allowed them because they can negate things. this is not a category in the damage step club. nor am i accepting that its a balancing factor, because the problem with cards like honest and kalut isnt the fact that the can activate damage step. the problem is that they're honest and motherfucking kalut.

 

seriously. da f*** konami.

 

Sorcerer of Dark Magic and Dark Paladin can also activate in the damage step. This pretty much IS a category in the damage step club, the "monsters that negate" category. Like it or not but that's the answer.

[evilfusion]

Why does this spark your rage so badly? Your opening post said "cuz i sure as hell didnt. cost me a god damn game too."

 

Now, logic dictates that, in order for this to "cost you" a game, one of the following conditions were applied.

 

1) You did not know the ruling and so did not maximize the use of your OWN Herald of Orange, thus you did not negate a crucial effect, and you lost the duel because of it.

lesson: Know the rulings of all the cards in your deck.

 

2) You KNEW your opponent (it has to be KNOW) had a Herald of Orange in hand, but believing it couldn't be used during damage step, you used an effect monster's effect that activated in the Damage Step, which was negated by Orange, and this negation led to your defeat.

lesson: Know your card rulings, don't assume your opponent doesn't know card rulings.

 

At the moment, I'm at a loss of what Negation monsters do NOT allow you to activate their effects in the damage step.

[Expelsword]

Well, actually, now that I think, Monsters that negate as Quick Effects need to be able to activate in the damage step to be able to negate other stuff that can be used in the damage step. Well, that doesn't actually justify it... but there's a lot of stuff that can go off in the damage step!

[GenzoTheHarpist]

At the moment' date=' I'm at a loss of what Negation monsters do NOT allow you to activate their effects in the damage step.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, pretty much.

[Toffee.]

@TC: Its a "quick-effect", and appearently /CAN/ activate in the damage step. Similar to Gorz/Trago/Kuriboh/etc

 

....and because this is one of those "Because shut-up" rules that Konami uses >__>

[evilfusion]

*lightbulb clicks* BKSS...Because Konami Said So. That acronym was bugging me for a while.

[Tronta]

gorz/trag/kuriboh directly involve the damage step.

 

damage step, it was my understanding, was reserved for the fastest cards, and cards directly applicable to the damage step itself. its.. its dick that they allow every spell speed 2 monster with a negation oriented effect to activate during the damage step. even if, as in stardust's case, that negation oriented effect has very little to do with the damage step.

 

i guess i was just unaware at how bullshit the BKSS rulings are, given that now they've developed a subcategory are cards that fly directly against konami's own rules. ugh. the prerequisite for getting involved in the damage step used to be that you had to run counter traps. the costs are pretty blatant, but the rewards of a well played divine wrath kind of balance that out. but konami just likes to keep making sheet stronger, forgetting old balances and old rules.

 

 

also,

@evilfusion:

you must not know me very well, or you'd easily be able to figure out the circumstances of my loss. i run empty jar. and i run it damn well. but its a little hard to run it against heralds. i was desperately losing this match, and i topdecked jar with no cards in hand, set it and ended. i used a few cards like moon, eclipse, etc to pull some of his heralds out of hand, but my entire game was banking on the jar going off. and it was attacked, and it was promptly negated.

 

knowing the rulings wouldnt have made me play any different, to be honest. i didnt really have any options. in any of the situations you illustrated, youd be right in reprimanding me. seriously though, my only course of action was cockblocked by a category of BKSS bullshit that i wasnt even aware existed. am i not justified in being thoroughly annoyed with konami and their inability to keep up with their own rules?

 

 

 

edit:

so i'm reviewing the damage step text and i find the following:

Some Quick Effect monster effects ("Kuriboh"' date=' "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8"). [/quote']

 

so thinking about this, i've come to the conclusion that the "some" should probably be stricken. i'm trying to figure out which quick effect monsters /cant/ be activated during the damage step.

 

anyone got one?

[evilfusion]

The reason Kuriboh, Gorz, and Trag involve the damage step is less because of the damage step and more because they activate in RESPONSE to damage. Kuriboh negates the damage and the latter 2 are summoned after taking the damage. They are poor examples in this case. Better examples is Hero Signal vs Rise of the Snake Deity, Snake Whistle, and Soul Rope. Hero Signal specifies when a monster dies in battle, whereas Snake Whistle and Rise just say destroyed. The latter cards are ruled to NOT be able to be used during the damage step, which makes very little sense, as there is no indication of that ruling on the card. In all cases, they are normal Trap Cards that activate when a monster is destroyed.

 

Cards that directly involve damage can be used during the Damage Step (Damage Condenser, the examples you supplied) or being destroyed in battle (Hero Signal). The frustrating thing to me is the lack of indication of which is which.

 

The negation effects, as you mentioned, are to counter cards that CAN be used during the damage step. Effect negators can stop flip effects and "when this card is sent to the graveyard" effects, which activate around thet time of the damage step. There aren't that many negation monsters, to my knowledge.

 

Horus is the main spell negator and can have its effect activated whenever a spell is activated. No spell is Spell Speed 3, so Horus can properly counter all of them. Sorcerer of Dark Magic is similar in utility, but due to not being Spell Speed 3, is helpless against Counter Traps. Stardust Dragon can negate any destruction effect, and is ruled to being able to do so in the Damage Step (and therefore can counter Flip effects and 'sent to grave' effects). Due to the low number of negation Trigger/Multi-Trigger monsters I know of, this is consistent with all the others. Herald of Orange Light is a one-use discard effect to negate effects, and there is no reason I can think of for it to be EXCLUDED from activating during the damage step. It would actually piss more people off if it couldn't, because it limits a card's playability, much like Vennominaga is so hard to use because Vennominon has to be destroyed outside the damage step due to Rise's condition.

 

The other Heralds allegedly can't be used during the damage step, which qualifies as the BKSS bull ruling more than Orange Light.

 

I understand your frustration at this shortcoming, but I think your hatred towards Orange Light is ill-fueled. There's always that one card that messes up a deck strategy and it becomes something you have to endure in the game, the same way Infernity hates Consecrated Light.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

edit:

so i'm reviewing the damage step text and i find the following:

Some Quick Effect monster effects ("Kuriboh"' date=' "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8"). [/quote']

 

so thinking about this, i've come to the conclusion that the "some" should probably be stricken. i'm trying to figure out which quick effect monsters /cant/ be activated during the damage step.

 

anyone got one?

 

I think that's pretty much a category in addition to the ATK/DEF and counter trap cards. So, do I get the reps?

[Tronta]

apparently green and purple /can/ activate damage step. according to the lolwikia.

 

no you dont get reps.

 

i want to figure out at this point if all quick effect monsters can activate damage step. can someone come up with an example of one that cant?

[evilfusion]

Well, a Quick Effect is an effect that can be activated during either player's turn. As far as I can figure, most effects either negate something or in some way influence battle/damage.

 

DD Crow cannot be used during the Damage Step, because it has no influence on battle, damage, or negation.

 

Kuriboh affects damage. Gorz is summoned after taking damage.

 

Stardust Dragon negates. Doomcaliber Knight negates. Honest and Kalut affect ATK.

 

Cyber Ogre has a specific timing for its effect and therefore also can't be used during Damage Step.

 

You may not summon Cyber Dinosaur during the Damage Step. There's a specific ruling regarding Gorz being summoned via the Effect Damage method, but no mention of the battle damage method, implying this ruling.

 

Inmato cannot be used during Damage Step. Like DD Crow, it has no effect on Damage, Negation, or Battle.

[darkwolf777]

I've generalized that Quick Effects that can negate can activate during the Damage Step, for whatever reason. It'd be nice that something gets added to the rulebooks.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

did you know herald of orange can activate during the damage step? cuz i sure as hell didnt. cost me a god damn game too.

 

If you seriously lost a game because of Hearld of Orange Light, lol@you.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

did you know herald of orange can activate during the damage step? cuz i sure as hell didnt. cost me a god damn game too.

 

If you seriously lost a game because of Hearld of Orange Light' date=' lol@you.

[/quote']

 

Maybe it was used to negate the effect of his battle fader...thus losing the game due to massive Direct attack....