3-0 Banlists

[Toffee.]

As far as I know' date=' all token-generating cards are at 3 on 3-0 lists.

[/quote']

Ojama Trio@3

Dark Gaia@0

 

Dark Gaia would be banned on a good list with or without Ojama Trio. Also, Trio should be at 3 anyway.

 

How about Future Fusion, Symbols of Duty, Giant Trunade, and Bottomless Trap Hole?

(*somewhat picked stuff at random*)

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

As far as I know' date=' all token-generating cards are at 3 on 3-0 lists.

[/quote']

Ojama Trio@3

Dark Gaia@0

 

Dark Gaia would be banned on a good list with or without Ojama Trio. Also, Trio should be at 3 anyway.

 

How about Future Fusion, Symbols of Duty, Giant Trunade, and Bottomless Trap Hole?

(*somewhat picked stuff at random*)

 

Future Fusion is fine at 3 since Chimeratech (a card designed to OTK) should be banned anyway. Symbols is fine too since it requires you to run Normal Monsters or Gemini's to be useable and it has a reasonable enough cost to use it on top of that. Bottomless should be at 3. It is essentially a better Trap Hole. Giant Trunade I'm pretty sure would be fine at 3. All it does is bounce all Spells and Traps on the field instead of destroying them so you don't really gain any extra advantage by using it. As far as promoting OTKs is concerned, the banworthy ones should be banned anyway.

[CrabHelmet]

Nah' date=' you misunderstand. Theory-oh is good, however, there needs to be practical application to the actual card game.

[/quote']

 

People have run tournaments under 3-0 lists, albeit not on YCM. Why does there "need" to be a practical application to Konami Format?

 

The only thing that goes on in the 3-0 lists are the theoretical place listing on cards' date=' and then pointless banter on how good or bad a card is for the game, almost always resulting in everyone agreeing with Pika or You, or nothing changing. Rarely have I seen people be converted.

[/quote']

 

That's because YCM is full of idiots who insist on discussing Judgment Dragoon five hundred times. If people would discuss cards whose proper placement is actually ambiguous, like Future Fusion or Dandylion or something else interesting, then the discussions wouldn't just consist of everyone trying to convince the newest moron that DAD is banworthy.

 

Of course, if you're going to define all banter on how good or bad a card is for the game as "pointless" on the grounds that it doesn't change Konami's list, then you're correct in saying that, from your perspective in which only Konami Format is of any interest, it is indeed pointless. But that's because you're asking it for something it isn't designed to do. If you want to talk about Konami Format, you'd be daft to go to a 3-0 list discussion in the same way that you'd be daft to go to a Magic: The Gathering board - if the topic of discussion doesn't overlap with your interests, then that's not because the topic is pointless but rather because you've stupidly barged into a topic in which you have no interest.

[BehindTheMask]

Nah' date=' you misunderstand. Theory-oh is good, however, there needs to be practical application to the actual card game.

[/quote']

 

People have run tournaments under 3-0 lists, albeit not on YCM. Why does there "need" to be a practical application to Konami Format?

 

The only thing that goes on in the 3-0 lists are the theoretical place listing on cards' date=' and then pointless banter on how good or bad a card is for the game, almost always resulting in everyone agreeing with Pika or You, or nothing changing. Rarely have I seen people be converted.

[/quote']

 

That's because YCM is full of idiots who insist on discussing Judgment Dragoon five hundred times. If people would discuss cards whose proper placement is actually ambiguous, like Future Fusion or Dandylion or something else interesting, then the discussions wouldn't just consist of everyone trying to convince the newest moron that DAD is banworthy.

 

Of course, if you're going to define all banter on how good or bad a card is for the game as "pointless" on the grounds that it doesn't change Konami's list, then you're correct in saying that, from your perspective in which only Konami Format is of any interest, it is indeed pointless. But that's because you're asking it for something it isn't designed to do. If you want to talk about Konami Format, you'd be daft to go to a 3-0 list discussion in the same way that you'd be daft to go to a Magic: The Gathering board - if the topic of discussion doesn't overlap with your interests, then that's not because the topic is pointless but rather because you've stupidly barged into a topic in which you have no interest.

 

My apologies, I was unaware of the tournaments. I disagree with a lot of 3-0 card choices, and people here are stubborn as to my own placements.

 

Also, the reason I dislike these types of topics is that they usually create a lot of useless "discuss my lists" in which the posters have nearly the same lists, and in the end, all agree on the same list. Then someone will post a different list not using 3-0 logic, and then flame wars will ensue.

[CrabHelmet]

My apologies' date=' I was unaware of the tournaments. I disagree with a lot of 3-0 card choices, and people here are stubborn as to my own placements.

[/quote']

 

An important distinction needs to be made: 3-0 does not have card choices. 3-0 is simply a system of logic that is used in making card choices, and which can lead to lists that adhere to 3-0 philosophy, some of which happen to be popular.

 

For example, though most 3-0 lists will have Butterfly Dagger - Elma banned, 3-0 logic does not say "Ban Elma." What it says is this: "If you consider the Elma + Gearfried combo to be damaging to the game, then either Elma or Gearfried must be banned."

[TechnoDoomedOne]

If "Ojama Trio" was at 3, then what about the OTKs it can enable?

 

Also, "Dandylion" and "Scapegoat" create too much advantage for little cost, and the first activates even if sent from the hand or Deck to the grave. "Scapegoat" at 3 is ridiculous IMO, since you can stall with tokens all you want without actually putting thought in playing, and therefore does not promote skill. And "Dandylion" creates an insane amount of advantage if it is allowed to be played in 3s, and the tokens can be Tributed any turn after its effect was activated.

[CrabHelmet]

If "Ojama Trio" was at 3' date=' then what about the OTKs it can enable?

[/quote']

 

If I recall correctly, the big problem is combos with All-Out Attacks or Battlemania... which are themselves stupid cards that have no purpose other than enabling such OTKs, so they should just be banned.

 

Also' date=' "Dandylion" and "Scapegoat" create too much advantage for little cost, and the first activates even if sent from the hand or Deck to the grave. "Scapegoat" at 3 is ridiculous IMO, since you can stall with tokens all you want without actually putting thought in playing, and therefore does not promote skill. And "Dandylion" creates an insane amount of advantage if it is allowed to be played in 3s, and the tokens can be Tributed any turn after its effect was activated.

[/quote']

 

If all you're using Scapegoat to do is absorb attacks that would have been direct, then you're not generating advantage with it; on the contrary, you're spending advantage to protect your Life Points. Using Scapegoat only to mindlessly stall without giving proper thought as to how to use the meager extra time you've bought just leads to you -1'ing yourself for no reason. There's nothing banworthy about the existence of an easy strategy when that easy strategy is a bad one that will make you lose. (If there is an argument to be made for banning Scapegoat, that argument relies on its ability to easily Summon three-tributers.)

 

Dandylion is a more interesting case, and one that it would be improper to debate here instead of giving it its own topic as it deserves. (If I recall correctly, even Atem couldn't figure out what to do with it; his lists tended to leave it at 1 for no real reason.)

[arkel]

Example list added as well as a new question to discuss.

[CrabHelmet]

Wonderful. Now we'll get all bogged down over individual cards on the sample list. >_>

[arkel]

I typed it up very quickly, so please point out any mistakes I may have made. Also, isn't that what discussion is for?

[Toffee.]

Lets see... With the current list as is:

 

Chaos Necromancer x3

Card Trooper x3

Sengan

Magician of Faith x3

Volcanic Shell x3

Thunder Dragon x3

Dandylion x3

Grand Mole x3

Ryko x3

Lonefire x3

Tytanial x2

Necro Gardna x3

 

Monster Gate x3

Rasoning x3

 

Limit Reverse x3

 

Total = 42

 

Honestly, this looks really fun.

[Brandon Michael Geren]

That does look fun.

[Toffee.]

That does look fun.

 

Though I wonder how fast it is....

 

But I'm pretty sure you can make a better version, as D-Draw is@3

[Brandon Michael Geren]

D Draw+Diamond Dude... Where's Allure on the list? @3?

[arkel]

D Draw+Diamond Dude... Where's Allure on the list? @3?

 

Allure is one of the most disputed cards among 3-0ers. Some say a +0 Attriubute-specific draw card is fine. Others say that thinning the deck by 2 for no real cost is not acceptable. On my list (and I think Atem's as well), I have Allure @ 0.

[Manjoume Thunder]

This is probably the best 3-0 lists in terms of deck variety.

 

You will have:

 

Tier 0

Plants

Tier 1: Gadgets and Monarchs

 

Other lists tend to kill either Gadgets or Monarchs for no apparent reason.