Frog FTK Discussion

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

Well, you then look at which aspect is more damaging and dangerous.

 

Ronintoadin without any fodder is a 2star, 2000 defender that has no real ability.

Substitoad without fodder is a 1star, 2000 defender that can't use its ability.

 

However, Substitoad can easily get an ability by simply summoning another monster and thus fueling the grave for a frog deck. Whereas, Ronintoadin can only summon itself once, and thus ends its loop.

Therefore, if they were to ban, Substitoad, the entire combo would be slowed down to the point where the FTK would no longer be very valid and useful.

[Tronta]

problems with frog ftk:

substitoad

ronintoadin

mass driver

 

none of these is particularly good for the game except ronin, who's interesting toad support. however, by combining it with substitoad, you get an infinite summon monster alongside treeborn, making narchs stupidconsistent. it had a top as evidence. by konami logic, probably a limit. and mass driver deserves the ban.

[The ReBeL]

why Discuss this now. Frogs FTK, Infernities, Djinn Rituals. We have 3 problems. The sad thing is if someone like sephs deck plays Frogs FTK he has a chance because he runs d.d. crow at 3 lol.

Crevice.

 

All you have to do if take out mass and make it 1 or one for one and make it 1.

[Tronta]

djinns are a problem? wut? no. stop it. we have a lot of problems. they're called sabers, infernities, frogs in general, and machina.

 

saying a deck is more balanced because it's counterable doesn't mean anything. gb's are still stupid broken, they just aren't as much of a threat because of how much anti-gb you can side in instantly.

 

and i dont even understand that last sentence. i think you were advocating limiting mass driver, which, while it would lower the ftk's consistency, wouldn't actually do anything to fix the problem aside from make it a stupid lucksack ftk.

[Manjoume Thunder]

Substitoad has ridiculous card design. It would have been banned long ago if Frogs were not so terrible pre-Ronin and double Treeborn. It will get even worse in the future OR it will stop Konami from making good Frog cards.

 

Ban it.

 

@Tronta: How the funk did you decide that Machinas are broken?

[Tronta]

you don't see a problem with fortress?

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

you don't see a problem with fortress?

 

What's the problem with Fortress and why would it need list attention?

[Manjoume Thunder]

-1 Beaters with mediocre effects don't warrant a ban.

[Tronta]

occasionally a +0 depending on how it's summoned, thank you very much.

 

a searchable, unlimited, reviving cydra with protection effects seems like a problem to me. not to mention the union covers it even more. i also don't really like the idea of how they have a searchable stratos who's effect essentially reads: -1, drop a 2500 beater with protection effects, then protect it from being destroyed once.

 

 

in all fairness though, i haven't played seriously in months, and i'm aware that machina cant really keep up with the idiocy of sabers and the like. but then i still have a problem with gbs and lightsworns, so funk it all.

[Mehmani]

Ban Substitoad and Ronintoadin. That is the solution.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

occasionally a +0 depending on how it's summoned' date=' thank you very much.

 

a searchable, unlimited, reviving cydra with protection effects seems like a problem to me. not to mention the union covers it even more. i also don't really like the idea of how they have a searchable stratos who's effect essentially reads: -1, drop a 2500 beater with protection effects, then protect it from being destroyed once.

[/quote']

 

That is not anything that needs list attention. Cyber Dragon has no real cost or restriction on how it is summoned, it is a beatstick that can swing for over 1/4 damage and run over any commonly used Level 4 or lower monster and almost any Level 4 or lower monster in the game and it can be used almost anywhere. Fortress requires you to have a decent number of Machines to summon it easily and even then, it is a -1 at best to summon with its effect. Gearframe is just a worse Stratos that can equip itself to a Machine-type monster and protect it from destruction once. Especially since it only works when it is Normal Summoned and it can't search another copy of itself (irrelevant though since Stratos is Limited and should be Limited anyway). Nothing seems banworthy or problematic about that.

[iAmNateXero]

Stop b&ing my cannon soldiers. Wasn't dsf enough?

[The ReBeL]

just forget this discussion konami does stuff we can't fix. so just wait till september

[Tronta]

it isn't always a -1 if you pitch force to revive it from the grave. that's one of my bigger issues, i think. and it would probably be much more formidable if we didn't have sabers and infernities and idiocy to deal with.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

The problem here is obviously Substitoad. You have to check the history of the deck to come up with that. Before Ronintoadin, Substitoad had an FTK with triple Dewloren. Without Ronintoadin, you can loop Trishula. Even without Mass Driver AND Ronintoadin, Substitoad has the ability to swarm the field with enough Synchro monsters to easily wipe your opponent's life point. It loads the grave for multiple Pot of Avarice, sets up double Dupe Frog with ease, etc.

 

Also on Machinas, Gearframe is obviously a problem, just look at Elemental Hero Stratos. Now for Fortress, I think it could be hit by the banlist. If you don't run stuff that can remove it from play you auto lose to it. He's more than just a Cyber Dragon. You can pitch cards like Machina Force to revive him, he's recurrent, and you are forced to kill him with a spell or trap card if you don't want to lose card advantage. It's rediculous, why do you think Machina Gadget has won Nats in Singapore and in Japan.

[Lonk]

Ronintoadin is the reason for this FTK. and Konami would want to ban this card to earn more money from more rare cards (Ronin is a common after all). Mass Driver Was never really broken, but Ronintoadin is the reason why it is broken (Substitoad is partially responsible though).

[Tronta]

mass driver contributes nothing worthwhile to the game except periodic otks. it deserves to be hit.

 

substitoad has a thousand problems with it and breaks the game every other week.

 

ronintoadin doesnt seem like it would be a problem if the other two were gone.

[TechnoDoomedOne]

Konami logic doesn't work that way, I'm afraid.

 

Mass Driver: It is not that bad, and burn decks need it. (sure Konami thinks that way)

Substitoad: Good card that is almost broken for its Level, but we won't ban it. Limit at most, it's Archetype specific.

Ronintoadin: Card that allows broken plays, but it is a common and won't earn us much money. Limit it, or ban it in the most extreme scenario 'cause we don't care about it.

[Tronta]

^^probably

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Substitoad and tokens creates heavy advantage out of thin air, and Ronin and any form of milling, be it LS monsters, Merchant, etc, creates heavy advantage out of thin air.

 

They're just worse together.

[Mister Sir]

Ban Substitoad, Swap Frog, or Ronintoadin.

[Lonk]

Substitoad was never much of a problem before The Shining Darkness. Everyone knows Ronintoadin is the No. 1 reason why Frogs are dominating this meta. Just banning Ronin will effectively calm Frogs down (Besides, frogs won't die just because Ronin is banned. They still have Treeborn Frog for tribute fodder & D.3.S. OTK).

[Mister Sir]

Everyone knows Ronintoadin is the No. 1 reason why Frogs are dominating this meta.

 

inb4swapfrogdumpsronintoadin

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

eh its okay i guess

[Psycho Shocker Android]

Substitoad was never much of a problem before The Shining Darkness. Ummm... yes it was. Everyone knows Ronintoadin is the No. 1 reason why Frogs are dominating this meta. You mean sabers and infernities are dominating. Just banning Ronin will effectively calm Frogs down. Swap will still be able to dump treeborn for rediculously easy tribute fodder and Fishborg OTK will still survive. (Besides' date=' frogs won't die just because Ronin is banned. [b']True.[/b] They still have Treeborn Frog for tribute fodder Thank you captain obvious! & D.3.S. OTK).