Why is Satanism Bad?

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

okay there has been a lot of criticism over the religion known as Satanism or Luciferinism so why do people have the outlook that the people who believe this are bad people? is this true are they really bad people or is this just propaganda what do you think?

[GenzoTheHarpist]

LaVey Satanism is one of the most sensible yet paradoxically retarded religions i've ever encountered. They'd be a very credible philosophy if they didn't wrap themselves in so much mumbo-jumbo.

[CinnamonStar]

Pretty much no one who has researched at least a bit about what Satanism really is doesn't have these misconceptions.
For many years the media twisted it around into the whole "evil bloody butcher ritual guys" and the image stuck. So when people hear the word Satanism nowadays, this is what comes to mind.

Eh...like other religions I don't see why they could be "good" or "bad", or worse or better than others. They do have their fair share of retards though but Satanism as the Atheist religion and related to the figure of Satan has a few interesting points.

Hmm one reason that would come to mind about some people frowning upon it would be the whole reliance on your own persona. Cultivate your carnal self, the whole self-control based in a number of rules (do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked), possibly rules like "If a guest in your home annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them." may not be everyone's lifestyle. Some people might feel more at ease with spiritually-based religions like Wicca or another theistic religion and it's true that this aspect comes a little short in Satanism.

But that's just personal taste, I just thought that this could be a point why some people have something against it.

[Yasu]

Disinformation.
Being a taboo subject ([i]at least in my community[/i]) just makes it worse.

[Lt. Colonel Remo]

There will always be misinformation with this topic as Satanism isn't the most loved of religions by other religions...

[The Amazing Avian]

Satanism isn't really a bad thing in my opinion. People can choose whatever frickin religion they want and I won't give a damn. If I end up getting a satanist dude as a roommate in college, I wouldn't care, so long as he wasn't insane and tries to harvest my organs. That's when I draw the line.

[Dark]

More often than not, at least in the people I've met, people believe in Satanism for its [i]principles[/i], as opposed to its actual mythology. The principles of LeVeyan Satanism are principles I've been living with and following my entire life, inadvertently, of course. However, it seems a bit odd when one would worship and praise a preusmably all-evil being. Then again, I also find it odd that one would worship and praise a deity, so I guess that's a bit biased from my end.

[I-dreezyAFG]

devil worshippers. maybe im rite. maybe im wrong. but 1 things for sure. whether they do worship the devil and dont want anybody to know or they dont, its their fault for making the name of their religion [b][i]satan[/i][/b]ism

[DARKPLANT RISING]

It's not bad, it's just that the Chrsitians hate it because they oppose. You wouldn't like someone who hates you, huh?

Ironically, since Satanism talks stuff about personal advantage over contribution to society, so most industrial countries are taken over by the Devil. Hahaha.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='.:HiTMaN:.' timestamp='1290831661' post='4812668']
devil worshippers. maybe im rite. maybe im wrong. but 1 things for sure. whether they do worship the devil and dont want anybody to know or they dont, its their fault for making the name of their religion [b][i]satan[/i][/b]ism
[/quote]
I'd have to agree with you there. This is the kind of thing i'm talking about, why do they insist on portraying themselves as a "religion" and constantly using reversed christian imagery? Why couldn't they just treat their moral code as a philosophy itself? They're mostly atheists anyways.

[I-dreezyAFG]

no negative references, thats what i always say

[Dark]

I apologize for not making it clear, but I am not saying that every self-proclaimed Satanist doesn't worship a devil. There are surely people who take part in cult gatherings and do random stuff with the upside down pentagram and blood on the walls and demons into houses and hauntings and random-ass symbols... et cetera. I am saying that many people who claim to be Satanists really are just atheists in disguise with a different moral code of philosophy. And I'd assume that their reasoning for being proclaimed Satanists is to deviate from society, because for some reason they do not like society as a whole.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

The original concept of LaVey Satanism was great, IMO.

[The Dark One]

[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1290561879' post='4806223']
LaVey Satanism is one of the most sensible yet paradoxically retarded religions i've ever encountered. They'd be a very credible philosophy if they didn't wrap themselves in so much mumbo-jumbo.
[/quote]

This statement essentially summarizes the quandary that is LaVeyen Satanism.

Their philosophy and its merits aside, identifying with [i]Satan[/i], a being who is defined as a personification of evil in the world, is a clear statement of rebellion that frankly serves no purpose. It only alienates a significant percentage of the population who otherwise wouldn't be so opposed to their actual ideas. There is something fundamentally wrong with the mindset of a person who would choose this avenue for expressing their otherwise quite-logical philosophical system.

Furthermore, they lose a great deal of credibility when they proceed to treat magic seriously.

[Dr. Cakey]

Satanism - the word, that is - is a fairly recent invention, but needless to say talk of people who worship the enemy of God/Prince of Darkness/Devil/Tempter/etc. abounded as Christianity solidified into an institutional religion. Most likely the talk came first. From there, laymen who heard it discovered that rituals involving heavy drinking, nudity, and mass orgies sounded kind of nice, spawning what would be considered the first "Satanic" cults. After a time, some of these became actual devil-worshiping sects. I believe that in Enlightenment times, baiting the Church became a sport among some of the European aristocracy.

I don't know much about LaVeyan Satanism, but I believe it began basically as a publicity stunt, and evolved into something more serious as members more serious than its founder arrived.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='The Dark One' timestamp='1291083532' post='4819674']
This statement essentially summarizes the quandary that is LaVeyen Satanism.

Their philosophy and its merits aside, identifying with [i]Satan[/i], a being who is defined as a personification of evil in the world, is a clear statement of rebellion that frankly serves no purpose. It only alienates a significant percentage of the population who otherwise wouldn't be so opposed to their actual ideas. There is something fundamentally wrong with the mindset of a person who would choose this avenue for expressing their otherwise quite-logical philosophical system.

Furthermore, they lose a great deal of credibility when they proceed to treat magic seriously.
[/quote]
I agree, they go out of their way to try and be dramatic, in a way that serves no purpose other than to have some kind of elitist "initiated>uninitiated" mindset. There's absolutely zero about the idea of the religion that would necesitate rituals, but they still go ahead and do them (very dumb ones at that). The problem is that the ideas behind the religion already exist as secular ideas, so in order to be a "religion" they decided to cloud themselves in pointless add-ons.

[CinnamonStar]

[s]^You don't like the sex rituals? [/s]

It's not just some Christians who hate it, Zeena Schreck who was a daughter of LaVey himself and supposed to take over the Church of Satan has problems with it too at the point that she left them and broke away any kind of contact to her family.
It's a bit surprising but she offered some of her views on why her father's Satanism was "bad" in her eyes. From all I could gather, it was mostly because of the egocentered nature of the movement and yes, also the focus on trying too hard to be anti-Christian. Sure the principles themselves are easy to live with and are principles you can find from other philosophers as well but a lot of them are based or expressed in a way of being backslashes on spiritual religions, especially Christianity and Wicca. Basically anti-movements, with the reversed symbols and all. Also she criticized LaVey a lot for being dishonest about some things (apparently he lied about having been in a relationship with Marilyn Monroe too ). Well anyway, most of all she renounced from the Church of Satan and seems pretty mad at her family, she also wrote a book about him.

Now she's part of the Sethian movement, in Berlin I think, and that one isn't based on or against spiritual religions, it's just something different (that's what she said). I think it's a theistic movement though.

But she has a point, that could be a reason why some people despise it, even when they know what it's about.

Also guys they're not Atheists in disguise, they're Atheists short and simple. They're part of an Atheist religion (yes it's not an oxymoron, it exists), like Taoists, Confucianists and Theravada Buddhists. Atheist means just that you don't believe into a deity or any higher force, most people don't consider themselves part of a religion so that's the usual definition of the word but there are some religions that are based on worshipping no gods. Instead they worship something else, a philosopher like Confucius, astrology or something like that.
tl;dr: You can be Atheist and "do not want" towards religions, but you can also be Atheist and part of a religion, if that religious system is Atheist at its core or if you're pairing your Atheism with a religion, and these guys are doing the latter. I know that a lot of people in my surroundings have trouble with that.

Here's a pretty interesting essay by someone who had been part of the Church of Satan:
http://www.xeper.org/maquino/nm/COS.pdf

[Dark]

Satanists are not atheists, nor is atheism a religion. Atheism is the lack of a religion and the lack of belief. Satanism is a belief and worshipping in Satan and a belief in a god(s), and most definitely a religion.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Atheism isn't a religion like theism isn't. They are both belief systems.

[CinnamonStar]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1291347509' post='4825147']
Satanists are not atheists, nor is atheism a religion. [u]Atheism is the lack of a religion and the lack of belief[/u]. Satanism is a belief and worshipping in Satan and a belief in a god(s), and most definitely a religion.
[/quote]

No master, Atheism simply means not believing into a deity or higher force. But it doesn't say anything that goes past that. It can include a lack of religion but it doesn't have to. Or would you claim that Taoists and Confucianists aren't religions just because they believe in no deity but have all the other ramba-zamba around them, like energy flows, astrology, etc.?

Also again, LaVeyan Satanism has defined itself as pretty much Atheist and also as a religion.
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Satanism:_An_interview_with_Church_of_Satan_High_Priest_Peter_Gilmore

[quote name='Vuvuzela of Triumph' timestamp='1291348150' post='4825160']
Atheism isn't a religion like theism isn't. They are both belief systems.
[/quote]

Ding-ding we have a winnar. It's not a religion on its own but it's a belief system that can be part of a religion. Pantheism, Deism, Henotheism or all belief systems that may or may not be included into a religious movement. The Greek pantheon is Henotheistic and Polytheistic because they have a highest god at the top of their belief system and then a hierarchy of other deities and beings.

I don't know why so many Atheists tend to get uber-confused or butthurt about that, including my bf. If you define your personal Atheism as not believing into a higher force AND not being attached to a religion, then you're what most of you put down as a definition, an Atheist who isn't part of a religion. But if you don't believe into a higher force and are part of a religious movement that doesn't believe into a higher force, meaning one that has the principle of Atheism at the core of its religion like certain branches of Buddhism do, then you're both an Atheist and a religious person. It isn't a religion on its own, it can be part of one though. I know that it's hard to grasp because Western religion history is made a lot out of Theistic vs Atheist systems, but try to look past the Eurocentric stuff for once and think about all the Asian religions that have been Atheist for thousands of years.


But to get back to Satanism and why it can be ridiculous, the funny thing is that they claim to be Atheists and to only take the figure of Satan as an allegory of their beliefs. But most of their rituals end with "HAIL SATAN!" so I'm wondering, do they believe in him now or not?>_> Because if they don't, why the whole demon invocation and wouldn't it be more compatible with their belief system to say "hail me"?:S So yeah THAT is something I consider bad about them because it's two-sided and damn confusing.>_>

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote]No master, Atheism simply means not believing into a deity or higher force[/quote]
Sorry but i want to correct that Atheism means you have undiniable proof god exists and spend a lot of your time preaching about it kinda like radical christians except its preaching about how a god does not exist. A person who does not believe in any certain diety or doesnt care is Agnostic.

[CinnamonStar]

Well here I have to bark in again though, no, if you're Agnostic you're uncertain whether a god exists or not. Some Agnostics say that a god may exist or may not but they can't prove it so they keep it open.
And yes there are different kinds of Atheists, partially what I wanted to explain earlier too, and there's the kind who goes down preaching about how no deity exists and there are some people who are very pushy about it, sure. But it's not the general rule, the general rule (AS FAR AS I'M INFORMED, or else I can throw my whole life views away D:) is that Atheism means no belief into a deity or higher force. How preachy they get about it depends of who you're dealing with.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

Thanx i really learned something today. But i would like to question something else: I understand that some satanic cults actually have different views but use the satan part as a way of rebelling against a certain idea or society but arent there some that literally DO believe what they are spouting. (sorry spouting was the only word i could think off the top of my head)

[CinnamonStar]

Well that's what I found funny really and why I put up the Atheism part. They say that they're officially Atheists (whether it's true or not is to be debated but at least it's the statement of the church) but somehow most ritual ends with "HAIL SATAN!" And a lot of rituals contain demon invocations. Doesn't that sound like they do believe into that stuff after all?=/ IDK it sounds strange to me and I guess that's what the others meant with the mumbo-jumbo around it.

This is funny for example, when they say things like "by the Gods of the Pit, oh hear the names".
And really, if "Abaddon Adramelech Ahpuch Ahriman Amon Apollyn Asmodeus Astaroth Azazel Baalberith Balaam Baphomet Bast Beelzebub Behemoth Beheri Bile Chemosh Cimeries Coyote Dagon Damballa Demogorgon Diabolus Dracula Emma-O Euronymos Grogo Haboryn Hecate Ishtar Kali Lilith Loki Mammon Maia Mantus Marduk Masema Melek Taus Mephistopheles Metztli Mictian Mid gard Milcom Moloch Naamah Nergal Nihasa Nija O-Yama Pan Pluto Proserpine Pwcca Rimmon Sabazios Sammael Samn Sedit Sekhmet Set Shaitan Shamad Shiva Supay T’an-mo Tchort Tezcatlipoca Thamz Thoth Tunrida Typhon Yaotzin Yen-lo-Wang" is called not believing into a god, then I don't want to know what Theism is.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='tonymann' timestamp='1291407991' post='4826409']
Sorry but i want to correct that Atheism means you have undiniable proof god exists and spend a lot of your time preaching about it kinda like radical christians except its preaching about how a god does not exist. A person who does not believe in any certain diety or doesnt care is Agnostic.
[/quote]
I believe watching this video may help correct some of your false ideas of what atheism means. I would say, some 90% of atheists fall into the category discussed here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk