Testing your Faith

[Icy]

Haha, in the past month I have 2 core aspects of my Belief-System challenged on a very severe level. They have never had to deal with such things, because of how optimistic I am. Though I can say, I'm handling it rather well all things considering. Just kinda sucks yea? x_x"...

The first is my extreme hate for smokers (which remains albeit in a more controlled state now, instead of being thrown into rage).

The second is how close I keep my family and siblings as my Sister recently attacked my mother, and destroyed property. I was not aware the family beliefs were not instilled into her as deep as they should have been and as a result had to physically harm my sister in defense of my mother. She is currently in the Honolulu Detention Home for the Weekend.

Blaaaah... One has to wonder how often your beliefs are tested and how strong they are.

[JG.]

And the discussion topic is?

[Icy]

[quote name='JG.' timestamp='1290875765' post='4813390']
And the discussion topic is?
[/quote]

The topic and relating to it. I will not compensate for General's inability to find clear direction when someone is speaking to you. There are 2 very direct points in there if you bothered to actually read it anyway.

[Dark]

I have no beliefs, and I can never be tested.

I read the first post thrice over, and you started out talking about a story (and never revealed which aspects were magically tested), and then made a statement about beliefs and the testing of them.

There really wasn't a defined topic, and if you implied one, it wasn't defined as much as it should have been. No one wants you to directly state a topic, but make it more obvious, because if I cannot find any solid topic in this thread, most likely the rest of the forum won't.

[Icy]

[i]"One has to wonder how often your beliefs are tested and how strong they are."[/i]
Generally, people who have something to believe in will go through tests all the time to reassure themselves they believe a certain way. Even you will some day Dark, maybe you won't see it as a test though.

And I kept it vague on purpose, as you and a few others have told me that getting too personal on such things is bad.

[Dark]

One can wonder about the testing of one's beliefs without explicitly talking about one's beliefs and their testing.

So I'm still confused as what you want us to talk about, O Great TC.

And while you should be vague about your personal life, you made it explicitly clear that [b]two (not one or three)[/b] core aspects of your belief system were tested. And yet you won't tell us what they are?

[Floyd.]

[quote name='JG.' timestamp='1290875765' post='4813390']
And the discussion topic is?
[/quote]
If you can't find the meaning of the topic within the text then I have some doubts about you babes. </3

I agree, but I have no real religion or no real guidance, I am undecided, not an Atheist as I believe there is a path for most people, not everyone but most. The reason being most people is simply not everyone wants to believe in religious teachings, and I guess I'm cool with that, if people who want religion try to convert others all the time that religious teaching will get a bad reputation.

[Yasu]

I've lost faith in myself before, repeating the same stupid mistake over and over again.
But all that just made me a prideful bastard.

[BehindTheMask]

in spoiler is a long thing I wrote a few weeks back.

[spoiler=LONG]
Who is BehindTheMask?

I am BehindTheMask?

That is preposterous! How can I be BehindTheMask To say BehindTheMask is exactly identical to the person who wrote this(or in my case, writing it), is quite absurd. Quite simply, "BehindTheMask" cannot exist.

What defines existence?

A theologian will argue it is a "soul" that makes it so. Let us explore this claim. If theologians are correct, then where is a soul located? How do we obtain souls? Are they given to us, and can we lose them?

I do not think one should admit to saying a soul is equivalent to a body part, or connected to a body part. If a soul was located "in the [insert body part](for my argument, the soul will be in the heart)", then if either is replaced, then the body/shell of the soul is no longer more. Let us say I am skiing down a hill, during a snow storm. I trip, and fall down into a crevice, but luckily, my gps broadcasts my signal, and I am rushed to the hospital. I need a new heart, for whatever reason, and one is found. Now, for the sake of argument, the transplant works wonders, and there are no complications.

Would I still be Ben Meeker? Of course not, Ben Meeker would have died, but the soul with whom the heart belong to would live on in my name. This is not an adequate explanation. We have proven* that there is no physical soul, in the human body.

One might be tempted to say that "Oh, the soul is obviously not a material thing, it is a immaterial thing. It cannot be found in the material realm!" This argument is also flawed. How can an immaterial thing exist in a material realm? Even if it can exist, immaterial and material things cannot interact with each other. It would be foolish to say so, because there is no precedence for immaterial interference. Yet again, in all the years humans have been around, we have shown that (through the Laws of Physics and Chemistry) there is no possibility that immaterial objects can interfere with the material realm, or else these laws would not be so trust worthy. (also, as a side note, f*** paranormal activities 1 and 2, and f*** you for liking them)

It seems like there can be no adequate defense for "souls."

Now, one might say "Well, obviously there's a rapist in linkin park there is no such things as souls. Why are you wasting my time with souls!? The thing that defines us is our mind!"

This claim is not right either. To say that our mind defines our self is closer to the truth, but still does not adequacy explain the real truth.

How can the self be in the brain? Earlier stated, I have explained one problem with the "self-in-a-part" theory. However, the argument is slightly different. The mind is in control of all sensory organs. These sensory organs are signals picked up from our surroundings, and "translated" by our mind. In fact, our memories our stored in the mind. A mind houses all data we have received, well, that we can remember. A function of the brain is to forget "useless" information, as it makes biological sense, but I am going off on a tangent.

This is a very powerful argument, however, I have one problem with this. False Memories.

It has been proven by psychologists that false memories are possible. We, as humans, take in a lot of sensory data every day. Every second, the scenery around us is changing, and it would be maladaptive as a species to remember every small detail. So, most brains(excluding the special brains that can remember everything spoken or everything written), have a tendency to delete the unimportant information. We can make our brain remember certain things, by making neural connections(a gross simplification, but I don't know a lot to go into great detail, also, it is not needed to understand my point). However, back to my original point, we can mess around with memories.

[i]Still other false memories are believed to be the result of the prodding, leading, and suggestions of therapists and counselors. Finally, Dr. Elizabeth Loftus has shown not only that it is possible to implant false memories, but that it is relatively easy to do so (Loftus, 1994)."[/i]- Found at http://www.skepdic.com/falsememory.html. Borrowed. I make no claim as this is my own. The rights of this paragraph is to the respected authors.

Since false memories are possible, then how can anything be 100% confirmed reality? What if, and I think it is possible, there is only one consciousness? I do not think we can make the claim that we know other humans to be conscious. Although we can get two different people to make the claim "I am conscious" there is no definitive proof that consciousness exists in truly objective reality.

This is where I want to explain my point.

Nothing can truly exist in objective reality. We only can say for ourselves what exists and what doesn't exist. To make claims either in affirmation or denial of reality is to place the wool of over your own eyes. You decide what is and isn't, not God, not me, not Buddha.

No one, but yourself.

No one.

Enjoy life, as it truly is a psychotic experience. A truly wise person will ignore the mundane reality, and strive to become in tune with the collective conscious. As we begin to realize the false reality of objectiveness, we can finally begin to live! Reaching the awareness that we are quite possible only one conscious it becomes clear that every boundary is a creation of the conscious.

There is no universe.

There are no galaxies.

There are no planets.

There is no Earth.

There are no countries.

There are no states.

There are no towns.

There are no people.

There is no you.

[i]Language is the heart's lament, a weak attempt to circumvent the loneliness inherent in the search for permanence.[/i]

~ Protest The Hero - Spoils [/spoiler]

[Icy]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1290879494' post='4813503']
And while you should be vague about your personal life, you made it explicitly clear that [b]two (not one or three)[/b] core aspects of your belief system were tested. And yet you won't tell us what they are?
[/quote]

Added a portion of what it is.

Oh and @Floyd: [i]Faith is the confident belief or trust in a person, idea[/i]... Yeah, not limited to religion. Just your own belief systems.

[Yasu]

[quote name='BehindTheMask' timestamp='1290884080' post='4813737']
in spoiler is a long thing I wrote a few weeks back.

[spoiler=LONG]
Who is BehindTheMask?

I am BehindTheMask?

That is preposterous! How can I be BehindTheMask To say BehindTheMask is exactly identical to the person who wrote this(or in my case, writing it), is quite absurd. Quite simply, "BehindTheMask" cannot exist.

What defines existence?

A theologian will argue it is a "soul" that makes it so. Let us explore this claim. If theologians are correct, then where is a soul located? How do we obtain souls? Are they given to us, and can we lose them?

I do not think one should admit to saying a soul is equivalent to a body part, or connected to a body part. If a soul was located "in the [insert body part](for my argument, the soul will be in the heart)", then if either is replaced, then the body/shell of the soul is no longer more. Let us say I am skiing down a hill, during a snow storm. I trip, and fall down into a crevice, but luckily, my gps broadcasts my signal, and I am rushed to the hospital. I need a new heart, for whatever reason, and one is found. Now, for the sake of argument, the transplant works wonders, and there are no complications.

Would I still be Ben Meeker? Of course not, Ben Meeker would have died, but the soul with whom the heart belong to would live on in my name. This is not an adequate explanation. We have proven* that there is no physical soul, in the human body.

One might be tempted to say that "Oh, the soul is obviously not a material thing, it is a immaterial thing. It cannot be found in the material realm!" This argument is also flawed. How can an immaterial thing exist in a material realm? Even if it can exist, immaterial and material things cannot interact with each other. It would be foolish to say so, because there is no precedence for immaterial interference. Yet again, in all the years humans have been around, we have shown that (through the Laws of Physics and Chemistry) there is no possibility that immaterial objects can interfere with the material realm, or else these laws would not be so trust worthy. (also, as a side note, f*** paranormal activities 1 and 2, and f*** you for liking them)

It seems like there can be no adequate defense for "souls."

Now, one might say "Well, obviously there's a rapist in linkin park there is no such things as souls. Why are you wasting my time with souls!? The thing that defines us is our mind!"

This claim is not right either. To say that our mind defines our self is closer to the truth, but still does not adequacy explain the real truth.

How can the self be in the brain? Earlier stated, I have explained one problem with the "self-in-a-part" theory. However, the argument is slightly different. The mind is in control of all sensory organs. These sensory organs are signals picked up from our surroundings, and "translated" by our mind. In fact, our memories our stored in the mind. A mind houses all data we have received, well, that we can remember. A function of the brain is to forget "useless" information, as it makes biological sense, but I am going off on a tangent.

This is a very powerful argument, however, I have one problem with this. False Memories.

It has been proven by psychologists that false memories are possible. We, as humans, take in a lot of sensory data every day. Every second, the scenery around us is changing, and it would be maladaptive as a species to remember every small detail. So, most brains(excluding the special brains that can remember everything spoken or everything written), have a tendency to delete the unimportant information. We can make our brain remember certain things, by making neural connections(a gross simplification, but I don't know a lot to go into great detail, also, it is not needed to understand my point). However, back to my original point, we can mess around with memories.

[i]Still other false memories are believed to be the result of the prodding, leading, and suggestions of therapists and counselors. Finally, Dr. Elizabeth Loftus has shown not only that it is possible to implant false memories, but that it is relatively easy to do so (Loftus, 1994)."[/i]- Found at http://www.skepdic.com/falsememory.html. Borrowed. I make no claim as this is my own. The rights of this paragraph is to the respected authors.

Since false memories are possible, then how can anything be 100% confirmed reality? What if, and I think it is possible, there is only one consciousness? I do not think we can make the claim that we know other humans to be conscious. Although we can get two different people to make the claim "I am conscious" there is no definitive proof that consciousness exists in truly objective reality.

This is where I want to explain my point.

Nothing can truly exist in objective reality. We only can say for ourselves what exists and what doesn't exist. To make claims either in affirmation or denial of reality is to place the wool of over your own eyes. You decide what is and isn't, not God, not me, not Buddha.

No one, but yourself.

No one.

Enjoy life, as it truly is a psychotic experience. A truly wise person will ignore the mundane reality, and strive to become in tune with the collective conscious. As we begin to realize the false reality of objectiveness, we can finally begin to live! Reaching the awareness that we are quite possible only one conscious it becomes clear that every boundary is a creation of the conscious.

There is no universe.

There are no galaxies.

There are no planets.

There is no Earth.

There are no countries.

There are no states.

There are no towns.

There are no people.

There is no you.

[i]Language is the heart's lament, a weak attempt to circumvent the loneliness inherent in the search for permanence.[/i]

~ Protest The Hero - Spoils [/spoiler]
[/quote]

<3
Are you studying psychology?

[Zimiri of the Muse]

My beliefs haven't changed since seventh grade and I am confident that they will not change anytime soon.

[Mister Sir]

Beginning with strong Christian beliefs in childhood, I was soon confronted with the overwhelmingly "apparent truth" that evolution was much more probable than one almighty God controlling everything.

So, naturally, I "changed sides". But I quickly realized that Atheists are looked down upon in the American Midwest and abandoned thoughts of Atheism altogether to ridicule both extremes in an extreme cynical and sarcastic manor.

In short, having my "religious" beliefs constantly tested changed the way I thought about the world. For the worse.

[JG.]

The first part, I feel with you. I can't take smokers either.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Strict/restrictive parenting can sometimes have the opposite effect on children, once they find out that they can actually do stuff that's bad.

I have a lot of beliefs which are heavily opposed to, but I hold to them constantly, no matter how much people make themselves look like asses arguing against it. Even though my opinions also make me look like said donkey at times, as well.

[Legend Zero]

I'm an American, so anything that doesn't agree with me doesn't exist. =D

OT: I'm more of a go with the flow kinda person so I usually stay calm and myself if anything that happens (that isn't too extreme).

[Zimiri of the Muse]

I really dont like smokers but my mom smokes and in the house so i have to deal with it

[Icy]

[quote name='Zimiri of the Muse' timestamp='1290969128' post='4816358']
I really dont like smokers but my mom smokes and in the house so i have to deal with it
[/quote]

I don't. She has to smoke in her room or outside.

[Zimiri of the Muse]

She smokes in her room but since we ar ein a tiny apartment the door doesnt do much, and she smokes on the deck with the screen open so that doesnt do anything either.

[Cyber Altair]

Bitchslaps should have been involved Joshy.

Also behind the mask sounds like a pretentious f***, yup that's YCM all right.

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='Cyber Altair' timestamp='1290973642' post='4816556']
Bitchslaps should have been involved Joshy.

Also behind the mask sounds like a pretentious f***, yup that's YCM all right.
[/quote]

Cyber is back. =D

My dad use to smoke...not anymore and its great.

[Limited Edition KING]

[font="Verdana"][b]Ugh I can relate Josh both my parents are smokers but I don't hate them (well maybe my father...) I try everyday and ask them not to smoke yet they still do it. I don't know why but they also smoke on extremely hot days I'm like wtf why would you smoke ON A HOT DAY?

I have a belief in justice you know if you do something against the rules you get punished. Well that belief is tested whenever I browse the Intro section and see countless spammers. It just gets me so angry when someone tells a new member these certain rules instead of actually welcoming them.

This also makes me angry because those members aren't setting a good example for the new members and I fear that every new member will become a spammer and eventually end up being banned....[/b][/font]

[BehindTheMask]

[quote name='Hakurei Reimu' timestamp='1290885749' post='4813830']
<3
Are you studying psychology?
[/quote]

Nope, Chemistry w/ a Philosophy minor.

[quote name='Cyber Altair' timestamp='1290973642' post='4816556']
Also behind the mask sounds like a pretentious f***, yup that's YCM all right.
[/quote]

Oh u.

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='King.' timestamp='1291005978' post='4817901']
[font="Verdana"][b]Ugh I can relate Josh both my parents are smokers but I don't hate them (well maybe my father...) I try everyday and ask them not to smoke yet they still do it. I don't know why but they also smoke on extremely hot days I'm like wtf why would you smoke ON A HOT DAY?

I have a belief in justice you know if you do something against the rules you get punished. Well that belief is tested whenever I browse the Intro section and see countless spammers. It just gets me so angry when someone tells a new member these certain rules instead of actually welcoming them.

This also makes me angry because those members aren't setting a good example for the new members and I fear that every new member will become a spammer and eventually end up being banned....[/b][/font]
[/quote]
Random rant FTW?

[Cyber Altair]

Oh, what's bad with smoking on a hot day.