Flame Dragon Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='RobotBowtieOfDestruction' timestamp='1296531112' post='4978192'] I know it's what he means. He's YCM's best Blackwing player. He knows why BWW is broken. [/quote] And I didn't, that's the key here. I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just explaining why I said that. [quote name=':: -OmeGa DeviL- ::' timestamp='1296924584' post='4989903'] Fail. [/quote] The funny thing is he was right on all accounts. So, can you please EXPLAIN why he "failed"? [quote name='wiithepeople' timestamp='1296926366' post='4989999'] I would bring Mind Master to 2. There's not a lot of players playing this card. Surprisingly, there are more people playing Krebons than this card. I would also bring D-Draw to 2. Although this helps the cases of OTK and FTK decks, there's already OTK/FTK decks out there that DON'T use this card, such as Inferni-*gets shot* Limit Mist Wurm and Trishula. Most duelists only run one of each, so this should be fine. Put Starlight Road to 1. This might discourage some from trying to get a free Synchro, much less one of the most threatening out there. Hopefully Konami might come to it's senses. But for now we can only hope for it. [/quote] You don't know why Mind Master was limited do you? It's involves OTKs. D-Draw can go to 3 in a good format. Um.....so your saying limit cards even though that limit would have no affect on them. Um.....what's the point of that? Rule of thumb, synchros are almost always 3 or 0 cards. If Stardust is threatening, ban it, not the card that summons it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjoume Thunder Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 banning pot of duality is one of the dumbest thing that a person can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='wiithepeople' timestamp='1296926366' post='4989999'] I would bring Mind Master to 2. There's not a lot of players playing this card. Surprisingly, there are more people playing Krebons than this card. I would also bring D-Draw to 2. Although this helps the cases of OTK and FTK decks, there's already OTK/FTK decks out there that DON'T use this card, such as Inferni-*gets shot* Limit Mist Wurm and Trishula. Most duelists only run one of each, so this should be fine. Put Starlight Road to 1. This might discourage some from trying to get a free Synchro, much less one of the most threatening out there. Hopefully Konami might come to it's senses. But for now we can only hope for it. [/quote] Mind Master is the cause of a few FTKs. FTKs are bad for the game. Ban Mind Master. Destiny Draw is fine. It can go to 3 for all I care. Synchros are generally 3-0. One of the few cases you'd put one otherwise is if it can abuse Symbol of Heritage. Mist Wurm should be fine at 3. Ban Stardust Dragon and this can go to 3. Stardust Dragon is banworthy anyway, so the banlist move would work fine. Two more suggestions for banlist: [b]Banned[/b] [b]Mind Master[/b] - cause of FTKs and supreme deck thinner when used in tangent with the psychic field spell or equip spell, or a lot of life points [b]Imperial Iron Wall[/b] - it creates an infinite summon loop and locks out Macro Cosmos. I've come to the logic that the problem with Mass Driver F/OTKs isn't the card that tributes the monster for damage, but the infinite summon loops, and that the loops should be addressed. Toss-up discussion: [b]Pot of Duality[/b] What does everyone think? Is it just a "good" card, or does it deserve a list position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Griffin Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Duality should be @3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Nu-13 Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Duality is perfectly good @3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiithepeople Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Duality pets you see your next card that you draw so it is like drawing 1.5 cards...is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 What sets PoD apart from the other draw cards is the cost of 1 use per turn and no special summons is a joke. It's existence for all intensive prepossess makes the deck size 37 since it's a fluff card. Assuming the meta your trying to make is a slow one both this and Allure would be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjoume Thunder Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Pot of Duality is a generic consistency increaser. Key word: Consistency. It makes the game less sacky. THAT is what the banlist should aim to do. It also has restrictions that make it almost impossible to be used in a FTK (ban the FTKs that can use it) and the more special summons your deck uses the less useful Duality gets. The exceptions are Blackwings (horribly designed) and slow otks that can and should play the turtle and card-for-card games before the explode. Most of the time these OTKs are acceptable because apart of the odd sacky kill they have to grind their way to victory (if that "odd sacky kill" happens consistently, ban it) If you don't get that you should consider: 1) starting to actually play the game 2) jumping of a cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Gideon. Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1296930738' post='4990142'] And I didn't, that's the key here. I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just explaining why I said that. The funny thing is he was right on all accounts. So, can you please EXPLAIN why he "failed"? [/quote] Banning Stardust, PSZ, and duality ?? Limiting Malicious ?? c'mon that's stupid and will NEVER happen >_> Also duality is perfectly fine @3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiithepeople Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 PSZ needs to stay at 1. Even I know that. By banning PSZ, you also kill off 3 Synchros(and a /Buster) that nobody uses...wait is that a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Gideon. Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 ^ I know, someone here says It should be banned .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 My initially well designed thread is in ruin Also, Manjy is right with the Duality thing, there's really no reason as to why to ban it. Also suprised that nobody has brought up Bestiari... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjoume Thunder Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 >well designed thread >banlist discussion >in bloody ycm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Manjoume Thunder' timestamp='1296989183' post='4992465'] >well designed thread >banlist discussion >in bloody ycm [/quote] IT WAS WELL DESIGNED. just some retards invaded it. I may make another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name=':: -OmeGa DeviL- ::' timestamp='1296980909' post='4992308'] Banning Stardust, PSZ, and duality ?? Limiting Malicious ?? c'mon that's stupid and will NEVER happen >_> Also duality is perfectly fine @3 [/quote] I explained my reasoning for Stardust already. Refute my logic directly or don't bother speaking. Personally, I'm not too much a fan of limiting except in a few cases because they lower consistency and therefore make the game more lucksacky. I'm trying to adapt to this non-3-0 logic thread, though, so bare with me. I guess I understand Duality at 3. Personally, I'm still not a fan of it, but it's acceptable to keep it. The question is whether or not being able to remove a card from the Graveyard to thin the deck by one and get a Level 6 monster that is immune to Bottomless (most likely to abuse for Synchro Summoning) is abusable or not. Judging by Malicuous' support, searchability, and ditchability, I find it too powerful. Since Malicious has to combo with itself, limiting it will give a similar effect to banning it but still allow for use of its other properties. The cool thing about a banlist discussion thread is that you don't have to worry about whether Konami would do it or not. Therefore, Stardust getting banned is a legitimate banlist claim. [quote name='wiithepeople' timestamp='1296982130' post='4992355'] PSZ needs to stay at 1. Even I know that. By banning PSZ, you also kill off 3 Synchros(and a /Buster) that nobody uses...wait is that a good thing? [/quote] None of those Synchros or /Buster are used, so don't bother discussing them. The question is wthether or not a DARK Level 2 Zombie Tuner with a splashable resurrection ability is bad for the game or not. [quote name='Loki el Señor de los Aesir' timestamp='1296987735' post='4992438'] Also suprised that nobody has brought up Bestiari... [/quote] Bestiari isn't the problem: Gyzarus is. [b]Ban Gyzarus and unlimit Bestiari?[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Mystery Guest' timestamp='1296601271' post='4979599'] Obviously it would be Chaos Lightsworn. Then a bunch of cards would be banned and it would probably be Gladiator Beasts. Or, at least Gladiator Beasts would probably be the most consistent deck, being able to swap out any Gladiator Beast for almost any other Gladiator Beast. That anime topic was made and it didn't do well. Sadly, neither did Crab Helmet's topic of allowing any number of a card that isn't restricted to a specific maximum number. Anyway, now I'll contribute some other possible changes (note that Cold Wave and Monster reborn are implied and I'm not making an entire list, just parts) [b]Banned[/b] [b]Stardust Dragon[/b] - this card counters anti-overextension, therefore indirectly promoting overextension, with a 2500 ATK beater (higher than the average Monarch 2400 ATK). Overextension is bad playing, and this card is easily summonable and sustainable, so ban this. Then again, we know Konami would at most limit this until Yugioh ZeXal starts. [b]Rekindling[/b] - +4 in card advantage that most likely would be used for at least a +1 in the form of two Synchros or SSD/RND (Formula Synchron's effect is a +1. I'm sure Flamvells have a Level 2 Tuner to use with Formula Synchron). [b]Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth[/b] - thanks to Fish tuners, what used to be a swarm of relatively useless fish became a swarm of Synchros, just like Rekindling. While this is tougher to use than Rekindling and takes up a monster space (limiting advantage to +2), that still is a +2 and it is a Level 7 for great Fishborg Blaster synching. [b]Plaguespreader Zombie[/b] - Zombies even getting a Tuner with no negative effects absolutely astounded me. A DARK Zombie Tuner with a revival effect and can be splashed into any deck goes too far for my taste, especially since the RFP zone is now more like the second Graveyard and cards can easily be pulled from it. [b]Pot of Duality[/b] - When even Blackwings could main Oppression, you could see that not special summoning isn't a problem even for an archetype based on swarming and synchro summoning. This card just stops the Special Summoning for the turn and lets you pick your fate out of your next three cards. You probably aren't going to run into multiple PoDs in a turn anyway, but a person can just hold onto one if they find one. Overall, it's like a Pot of Greed that trades its extra card for extra foresight (which gives you 1.5x the odds of getting the card you need in a pinch as Pot of Greed) with laughable conditions. This card is quite comparable to Pot of Greed and, since Pot of Greed is banned, this card probably should be too. [b]Limited[/b] [b]Destiny Hero - Malicious[/b] - it only works in combination, so Limiting it is basically the same as banning it, except at limited you have an access to an 800 ATK Level 6 DARk Warrior. I'm sure that must have some use. Being able to thin the deck by a card and summon a good Level monster for Synchro Summoning right out of the blue is very powerful. Being DARK and a Destiny Hero doesn't make it weaker either. [b]Unlimited[/b] [b]Metamorphosis[/b] - Its best moves involved summoning Cyber Twin and Cyber End, which are banworthy anyway. This card is a -1 and overall has no business on the list. [b]Book of Moon[/b] - Oh, wait, it's already on the umlimited list, isn't it? My point, semi-ing a non-monster card does nothing and this card is perfectly fine. It's a -1 that usually ends up a +0 and only occasionally a +1. [/quote] you are joking? right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1297001691' post='4992623'] you are joking? right? [/quote] If you're referring to the first paragraph or so, before the banlist changes, then yes. Otherwise, no. "You are joking? right?" isn't a refute to an argument. Refute my cards separately or don't speak about my suggestions. What part about them did you not understand? I understand Malicious, Duality, and Plaguespreader are all questionable, and I understand Duality should probably stay at 3. The other choices are mainly preferences of what I would do. Everything else I've defended with solid logic. Prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdoopertrooper Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Loki el Señor de los Aesir' timestamp='1294851074' post='4929888'] Banned: Treeborn Frog [color="#FF0000"]No[/color] Monster Reborn [color="#FF0000"]Yes[/color] Cold Wave [color="#FF0000"]Yes[/color] Royal Tribute [color="#FF0000"]Unsure[/color] Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier [color="#FF0000"]No[/color] Limited: Machina Fortress(?) [color="#FF0000"]No[/color] Gateway of the Six [color="#FF0000"]Yes[/color] Semi-Limited: Newly Unlimited: [/quote] My suggestions: - Heavy Storm should be at 1 - Judgement dragon to 1 - MST should be at 3 - Bottomless should be at 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 ^ Heavy Storm was an OTK fueler though. I'd be fine if it was @1 or @0. JD [i]should[/i] be @1. Just because LS don't top doesn't make the card any less busted. I remember the countless threads disputing that it should have even gotten the hammer. MST and BTH would be good @3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 shut up canadianfaggot JD should be at 0. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 wow u rly mad. What about DAD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjoume Thunder Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 itt: everyone mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAEGING D0GKING Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Bestiari at 2. Putting Bestiari at 3 and banning Gyzarus would kill Glads. And Glads dont deserve to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1297007825' post='4992830'] Bestiari at 2. Putting Bestiari at 3 and banning Gyzarus would kill Glads. And Glads aren't even tier 1. [/quote] herp derp leaving broken cards around is good for the game shut up fa**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1297005061' post='4992735'] My suggestions: - Heavy Storm should be at 1 - Judgement dragon to 1 - MST should be at 3 - Bottomless should be at 3 [/quote] Heavy Storm is too powerful for its designed purpose and creates OTKs. It should stay at 0. JD should be banned, along with DAD. JD is a 1000 point field nuke that blows up 3000 of the opponent's Life Points. Its conditions of summon are laughable. The last two suggestions are fine. [quote name='Odin el Padre de los Aesir' timestamp='1297007825' post='4992830'] Bestiari at 2. Putting Bestiari at 3 and banning Gyzarus would kill Glads. And Glads dont deserve to be killed. [/quote] Banworthy cards connected to a theme are still banworthy cards. Ban such cards and let the deck type attempt to survive without it. If a deck type requires a broken card to survive, then the deck type deserves to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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