Mysty Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote name='Wrathos' timestamp='1295431587' post='4944481'] Has Konami issued a ruling on this? If not it's still up for debate. [/quote] A continuous negating card that isn't negated will negate cards that try to negate it if those negators are of the specifics of cards the continuous negator negates. Example: If Skill Drain is on the field and Wildheart/Vennominaga hit the field, Skill Drain will negate them. If Wildheart/Vennominaga are already on the field and Skill Drain is activated, Wildheart/Vennominaga will continue to be unaffected by Trap cards (and other cards, in Vennominaga's case) and therefore unaffected by Skill Drain. Example: If Skill Drain is face-up on the field and Jinzo is summoned, Skill drain negates Jinzo. If Jinzo is on the field, Jinzo's effect prevents Skill Drain's activation. Should something bypass that effect and still keeps Jinzo's effect that it negates somehow, Jinzo would negate Skill Drain. Genex Ally Birdman's alternate summoning is an effect, with returning Gallis to the hand as a cost. Koa'ki Meiru Doom negates the effect of DARK and LIGHT monsters that activate in main Phases. Therefore, D.D. Crow, Effect Veiler, and Genex Ally Birdman are all negated, allowing the FTK to work undisturbed. Since monster's effects are up immediately after a successful summon, there is no timing you could use Effect Veiler to negate Koa'ki Meiru Doom. You can't chain to Koa'ki Meiru Doom because his effect is Continuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Why are some people under the impression that the FTK won't work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote name='Placido.' timestamp='1295457280' post='4944773'] Why are some people under the impression that the FTK won't work? [/quote] I don't know; I even explained how all the interaction between Koa'ki Meiru Doom and Genex Ally Birdman is key and that Koa'ki Meiru Doom provides protection from Effect Veiler, meaning your opponent can't touch this FTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Birdman's Special Summon is an Effect, and not an inherent Special Summon with a cost (like Machina Fortress)? If so, it's worded very poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiithepeople Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1295465252' post='4944921'] Birdman's Special Summon is an Effect, and not an inherent Special Summon with a cost (like Machina Fortress)? If so, it's worded very poorly. [/quote] All of a sudden I'm getting flashbacks of Cannon Soldier. O GOD MAKE IT STOP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiithepeople Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Bump and continue discussing the 99% Unstoppable FTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroLuneth Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I still don't get why people say use cockroach knight, if your using monster mash your deck should already be all monsters making cockroach knight a terrible choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ＴＨＥ ＧＯＤ ＯＦ ＯＢＥＬＩＳＫ Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='wiithepeople' timestamp='1295547208' post='4946911'] Bump and continue discussing the 99% Unstoppable FTK [/quote] 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Valonir' timestamp='1295549057' post='4946957'] I still don't get why people say use cockroach knight, if your using monster mash your deck should already be all monsters making cockroach knight a terrible choice. [/quote] It ensures that you don't run out of monsters for the F/OTK. To me, it's only really helpful if the opponent increases their Life Points for some reason, such as to go for the Agent Saturn OTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiithepeople Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Mystery Guest' timestamp='1295551301' post='4947028'] It ensures that you don't run out of monsters for the F/OTK. To me, it's only really helpful if the opponent increases their Life Points for some reason, such as to go for the Agent Saturn OTK. [/quote] CORRECT!! circle gets the square! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01894645616843521321 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 [quote name='DeathSDelano' timestamp='1295314804' post='4942030'] The combo works like so (combo belongs to monster mash.dek) Summon KM Doom Activate Gallis's effect. Than he Special Summons himself and sends top card to grave for effect damage Than activate birdman's effect to return gallis and apparently KM Doom's effect stops Birdman from being summoned with his effect (this is what i've heard) Than repeat combo until your opponent dies [/quote] Nooo, Birdman's effect is a summoning condition, not a negatable effect.... At least I'm pretty sure it is? I guess we have to wait for it to come out to America and see what Konami says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ＴＨＥ ＧＯＤ ＯＦ ＯＢＥＬＩＳＫ Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Birdman's effect is a cost you derp. Can you activate Brionac's effect whilst Skill Drain is on the field? derp derp derp You can discard but you can't bounce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 You know you can just discard effect Veiler to negate Koa'ki Meiru Doom's effect right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurtleOnceCalledGod Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Effect Veiler is a Light monster that activates in the graveyard after being sent as a cost. Doesn't Doom negate light and dark on the field and the graveyard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 [quote name='TheTurtleOnceCalledGod' timestamp='1295643137' post='4949181'] Effect Veiler is a Light monster that activates in the graveyard after being sent as a cost. Doesn't Doom negate light and dark on the field and the graveyard? [/quote] oh shi scoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Nu-13 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 It IS stoppable. Use Maxx "C" and draw into Exodia before they can finish you off *gets shot* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='TheTurtleOnceCalledGod' timestamp='1295643137' post='4949181'] Effect Veiler is a Light monster that activates in the graveyard after being sent as a cost. Doesn't Doom negate light and dark on the field and the graveyard? [/quote] Effect Veiler activates in the HAND and resolves in the Graveyard. But Doom probably still negates it. The problem I see is whether Birdman's Special Summon is actually an EFFECT. Cyber Dragon can be Special Summoned if you have no mons and your opponent does. This is an inherent Special Summon that does not activate, and so can't be negated by Doom. Likewise, Machina Fortress requires a discard of 8 stars worth of Machines to be Special Summoned, and like Cyber Dragon, this is an inherent Special Summon and does not activate. Birdman doesn't seem to be worded differently from Machina Fortress, except its requirement to bounce a monster for its Summon. Is this actually an effect or an inherent Special Summon? It's not worded like an Effect Summoning, like Gorz or Tragoedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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