Dark Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 [quote name='+Whambulance' timestamp='1307223734' post='5254890'] I'm surprised nobody has brought up putting your hand on the bible in court. [/quote] I actually thought about that on multiple occasions, and came to the conclusion that if I was ever put into a situation where I would need to swear on a Bible, I would outright tell the judge that the jury cannot assure that everything I am saying is the truth, because I don't believe in the bullshit I'm swearing on. ...but you know, I'd put it semi-nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack of All Spades Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 [quote name='Dark' timestamp='1307391330' post='5261344'] I actually thought about that on multiple occasions, and came to the conclusion that if I was ever put into a situation where I would need to swear on a Bible, I would outright tell the judge that the jury cannot assure that everything I am saying is the truth, because I don't believe in the bullshit I'm swearing on. ...but you know, I'd put it [b]semi-nicely.[/b] [/quote] "The church is for smelly sissies!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted June 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 [quote name='Dark' timestamp='1307391330' post='5261344'] I actually thought about that on multiple occasions, and came to the conclusion that if I was ever put into a situation where I would need to swear on a Bible, I would outright tell the judge that the jury cannot assure that everything I am saying is the truth, because I don't believe in the bullshit I'm swearing on. ...but you know, I'd put it semi-nicely. [/quote] No need to snark, you do have a very good point. However, I don't think swearing on a Bibles is saying that you believe in it's contents as much as it is a tradition. (A tradition that we just so happen to force people to go along with. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirr Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 I think that all of you may have overlooked the most probable reasons that praying in public school isn't smiled upon. 1. Some religions don't have a prayer ritual as simple as balling your hands and telepathically speaking to Jesus. Some religions require more intricate methods; mats, candles, etc... In this, it would be a major disruption to class-time but, due to the separation of church issue, telling Muslims they're prayer methods are extravagant would be discrimination. This would leave the district vulnerable to law suits and other troubling scenarios. 2. Religion is well known for being a divider among people and children are known for being relatively clique-ish anyway. Allowing people to openly express their religion to the extreme of praying during school is bound to cause even more dissonance between peers. Aside from this, prayer doesn't belong in school anyway. School is where you go to learn, not beg for favors from whatever god you worship. And about the, "in god we trust" thing. The statement is not symbolic in anyway. It's meant exactly as it is. The same applies to the phrase, "under God" in the pledge. They were added during the red scare because it was popularly believed that Atheism was one of the stepping stones in becoming a Marxist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Whirr' timestamp='1307428751' post='5263052'] I think that all of you may have overlooked the most probable reasons that praying in public school isn't smiled upon. 1. Some religions don't have a prayer ritual as simple as balling your hands and telepathically speaking to Jesus. Some religions require more intricate methods; mats, candles, etc... In this, it would be a major disruption to class-time but, due to the separation of church issue, telling Muslims they're prayer methods are extravagant would be discrimination. This would leave the district vulnerable to law suits and other troubling scenarios. 2. Religion is well known for being a divider among people and children are known for being relatively clique-ish anyway. Allowing people to openly express their religion to the extreme of praying during school is bound to cause even more dissonance between peers. Aside from this, prayer doesn't belong in school anyway. School is where you go to learn, not beg for favors from whatever god you worship. And about the, "in god we trust" thing. The statement is not symbolic in anyway. It's meant exactly as it is. The same applies to the phrase, "under God" in the pledge. They were added during the red scare because it was popularly believed that Atheism was one of the stepping stones in becoming a Marxist. [/quote] Smart people aren't allowed on YCM; gtfo out. You know, minus your excess capitalization of the "a" in "atheism". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirr Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Dark' timestamp='1307498184' post='5265708'] Smart people aren't allowed on YCM; gtfo out. You know, minus your excess capitalization of the "a" in "atheism". [/quote] Meh... I capitalize the a in Atheism because I consider it just as much a proper noun as Buddhism, Christianity, or Islam. The way I see it, those things refer to a set of beliefs and so does the word Atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Atheism is the disbelief in a supreme being; it's not a religion or anything close to one, in my eyes. It's not only grammatically incorrect to capitalize it, but it makes me feel like you are comparing atheism to organized religions, which is a correlation that can't be made. It's a stupid thing to "argue" about, but I've seen numerous people do it, and it's evolved as one of my pet peeves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirr Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 [quote name='Dark' timestamp='1307563696' post='5267474'] Atheism is the disbelief in a supreme being; it's not a religion or anything close to one, in my eyes. It's not only grammatically incorrect to capitalize it, but it makes me feel like you are comparing atheism to organized religions, which is a correlation that can't be made. It's a stupid thing to "argue" about, but I've seen numerous people do it, and it's evolved as one of my pet peeves. [/quote] Atheism is the belief that there is no God or gods. Every atheist believes this, just like every Christian believes Jesus was a real human being and that he was the son of God. Among Christians, there are different branches that all have different [i]specific[/i] beliefs. Among Atheists, there are those who disagree with the big bang theory, evolution, and other things that don't follow the theory of intelligent design and those that believe whole-heartedly in science. This can be likened to bible thumpers and methodists. As I see it, to capitalize words like Christianity and not the word Atheism is a sign of disrespect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted June 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Atheism is not capitalized on Wikipedia. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirr Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1307827204' post='5275348'] Atheism is not capitalized on Wikipedia. End of story. [/quote] Gucci Mane doesn't have an album named The Return of Mr. Zone 6 according to wikipedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Lovegood Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote name='Whirr' timestamp='1307583221' post='5268366'] Atheism is the belief that there is no God or gods. Every atheist believes this, just like every Christian believes Jesus was a real human being and that he was the son of God. Among Christians, there are different branches that all have different [i]specific[/i] beliefs. Among Atheists, there are those who disagree with the big bang theory, evolution, and other things that don't follow the theory of intelligent design and those that believe whole-heartedly in science. This can be likened to bible thumpers and methodists. As I see it, to capitalize words like Christianity and not the word Atheism is a sign of disrespect. [/quote] Atheism is not a religion. A religion is: 'The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.' You lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirr Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Luna Lovegood' timestamp='1307909082' post='5278140'] Atheism is not a religion. A religion is: 'The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.' You lose. [/quote] Actually, the full definition of "religion" would be: [I]1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods ideas about the relationship between science and religion 2. Details of belief as taught or discussed 3. A particular system of faith and worship 4. A pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes[/i] Regardless, I'm not asserting that Atheism is a religion. But hey, since you love dropping definitions so much, why don't we look at what qualifies something as a [i]proper noun[/i]? A proper noun is a word that refers to an individual person, organization, or idea. Atheism is a noun that refers to a [i]specific group of people[/i] who all share the [i]idea[/i] that there is no God or gods. What exactly qualifies the word Taoism as a proper noun more-so than Atheism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Lovegood Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Whirr' timestamp='1307964008' post='5279905'] Actually, the full definition of "religion" would be: [I]1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods ideas about the relationship between science and religion 2. Details of belief as taught or discussed 3. A particular system of faith and worship 4. A pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes[/i] Regardless, I'm not asserting that Atheism is a religion. But hey, since you love dropping definitions so much, why don't we look at what qualifies something as a [i]proper noun[/i]? A proper noun is a word that refers to an individual person, organization, or idea. Atheism is a noun that refers to a [i]specific group of people[/i] who all share the [i]idea[/i] that there is no God or gods. What exactly qualifies the word Taoism as a proper noun more-so than Atheism? [/quote] That definition of religion makes Conservatism a religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted June 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 The way some people follow conservatism, it almost is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsianGuy1137 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'd say that with the current state of things, this clause is silly and ultimately irrelevant. Sure, you can't enforce religion upon people, but you don't exactly need a law to enforce that concept to prevent the government itself from enforcing it. Back in the day when the Vatican held a large influence with the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, this might've prevented the church from having political power, but that's hardly reflective of reality today. Going to the church is nice and all, but outside of authoritarian theocracies, you won't find a church or any kind of legitimate religious organization that can rise to a position of political power to enforce their own beliefs on people. Also, people should stop arguing over semantics. Politics and religion do go hand in hand in several countries today so being disrespectful over definitions is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Agreed. I think I should be able to create my new Welcheitisism religion without any government interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Culpa Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 The separation of church and state is not, as many anti-religious protesters like to think it is, to say that you may make no laws [i]influenced[/i] by religion, but that you may not make laws pertaining to a particular religious establishment or religious establishments in general. This was simply created so that George Washington would not go Henry VIII on us and create the "American Church" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Nothing Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 I don't know if it's been said but I'm almost positive it has so I'm gonna put ITT: Marriage isn't religious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenxAtemYAOI Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 [quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1296686305' post='4983065'] I couldn't agree more. That's just my problem, people seem to b**** about "religion existing among the individuals involved," as you put it. For instance, prayer in schools is something that obviously shouldn't be a part of any class or school policy, but if a few religious students want to pray quietly amongst themselves before eating, why the hell shouldn't they be allowed to? For this example, to avoid certain unfortunate implications, let us assume the students are Muslims. First of all, saying, "In god we trust," would be incorrect grammar. I don't see why it shouldn't merely be taken out altogether. You say you know where I stand, yet you continue to accuse me of believing in religious supremacy. All your angsty bitching aside, I believe that people should not be taught that persecution is a good thing. I really shouldn't have to say that, but apparently you're not intelligent enough to see that. Children should be allowed to study religion in public school as an elective, similar to how a college student might take a religious studies course. You say children should be taught to question everything, but is that really the public education system's place to do that? For the last time, keep the religion out of the school system, [b]but let the religious to continue being religious in schools.[/b] If you cannot do that, then you are a very narrow-minded person. [/quote] It already has been ruled forbidden within school hours thanks to Elgen vs Vaital or something along the lines. I posted the court case in the pledge thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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