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The Seperation of Church and State


Tentacruel

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[quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1296698043' post='4983794']
But "god" is not a pronoun nor a plural form of a word. I am still confused.
[/quote]

It can be used as a pronoun, is what I am getting at. The difference between "god" and "God" is really that capitalizing the "g" implies that you are talking about a specific god whose name is "God".

It SOUNDS grammatically incorrect to say "In god we trust" if you aren't talking about a specific god, sure, but "god" doesn't have to refer to a particular god.

Your logic is that you would say "In [b]a[/b] supreme being we trust", [s]which is the only fine logic I've seen you produce on this forum,[/s] but the word "god" serves as an exception to a few rules.
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[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1296788299' post='4986108']
It can be used as a pronoun, is what I am getting at. The difference between "god" and "God" is really that capitalizing the "g" implies that you are talking about a specific god whose name is "God".

It SOUNDS grammatically incorrect to say "In god we trust" if you aren't talking about a specific god, sure, but "god" doesn't have to refer to a particular god.

Your logic is that you would say "In [b]a[/b] supreme being we trust", [s]which is the only fine logic I've seen you produce on this forum,[/s] but the word "god" serves as an exception to a few rules.
[/quote]
Likewise. But in any case, thank you, I actually didn't know that. But getting back to the original topic, I still think it'd be better to remove it completely, or maybe even give an option to include that line for each person, but that would obviously produce some complications.
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[quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1296758274' post='4984982']
That doesn't mean much coming from you.
[b]You start your (hideously small) retort with a nice little insult. Fun![/b]

I'm not sure what you mean about America being messed up. [b]A country that remains dementedly right-wing yet the majority believe that the Church should be separated from the State? That's messed-up.[/b] Also, I've noticed most people have a different opinion on what "imposing their beliefs" on others is. [b]Indeed.[/b] Merely stating your beliefs and why you believe them is not imposing them. [b]Ah, my friend, but the way in which you assert your beliefs can often be imposing. Presenting evidence for your beliefs is normally fine but if you are Christian or Muslim and you mention that everyone who disagrees with you is sent to a fiery eternity of unimaginable torture, then I imagine that that could be seen as imposing your beliefs on someone else. You're easily intelligent enough to see why.[/b]
[/quote]
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[quote name='Halubaris Maphotika' timestamp='1296871673' post='4988258']
I retract my earlier statement I dont want these other religions taught in schools in fact the only thing I want added to school curriculum is Noetic Science...
[/quote]
I'm a new age type myself, but there is no way Noetic could ever be in the curriculum because it fails all basic rigor and so there can be no productivity.
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Oh, to the contrary, if I said that I thought you were about to get hit by a train unless you stepped to the side, would that mean I hated you? Of course, you could easily argue that the train does not exist, making me clearly insane, but would that have anything to do with my intentions?

That being said, I do admit people need to be a little more tactful when presenting their opinions. >.>
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[quote name='Halubaris Maphotika' timestamp='1296910683' post='4989348']
Well i would rather have people choose to learn it or not.... As i am a believer in Noetics so im kinda biased at wanting it in schools...
[/quote]
The whole premise of it is ill-suited for school. You can't PROVE any of it, so its something people can only decide for themselves. Which makes trying to teach it in a school pretty pointless.
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[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1296966436' post='4991769']
The whole premise of it is ill-suited for school. You can't PROVE any of it, so its something people can only decide for themselves. Which makes trying to teach it in a school pretty pointless.
[/quote]

You can prove religion exists- just head to any church, mosque, temple, what-have-you.

You can't prove any of it's [i]true[/i] or not, but it certainly exists and is a substantial factor in politics, history, and anything involving a service-industry based job.

Therefor, I think it's needed to allow students to at least learn about various religions- not necessarily to convert to them, but to at least know what they entail. It's part of the world, like it or not, and growing up unprepared for the world is the exact thing school tries to prevent.
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lolNoetics. Sorry, couldn't resist.

On the issue of separation: The first amendment is hardly the only source we can look at for an understanding of our founders' intentions. Also notable would be Jefferson's notes, and the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli"]Treaty of Tripoli[/url].

However, I am often irritated by people's obsession with the founders' every thought and action. Yes, their principles formed the basis for the laws we have today so of course a correct understanding of those principles gives us a better perspective of American law.

But there's no reason to put them up on a pedestal. For one thing, their ideas were hardly unique, and for another, our country has turned out nothing like what any of them would have expected, or even wanted.

That is, obviously, what the amendment process is for. I simply dislike the way people hold them up as some sort of sacrosanct entity.

By the way, I think religious studies should be offered in public schools, BUT, only from a purely factual standpoint. The theology should be described, along with necessary cultural and psychological details that allowed those people to make those conclusions. In other words, it should be treated like a class on mythology. Oh, and one of the most ludicrous things in our government, other than the obvious dispute over creationism in the classroom, is the tradition of swearing a witness into a court on a bible. Compared to that, things like the pledge and our dollar bills are insignificant. Witnesses should simply be greeted with a reading of the perjury law, and be required to sign a statement. Faith has nothing to do with it.

That would also, conveniently, get rid of all the ridiculous issues in which select groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses refuse all oaths.

Of course, athiests and other groups can simply make an affirmation, Muslims can swear on a Koran, etc. But there's simply no need for the symbolism in the first place. And that's not even getting into the natural bias that arises in a significant portion of the population against someone who won't swear on a bible. This is indisputably true: your attorney will try to talk you into using a bible because they know exactly what kind of impact it has.

Oh, and about Satanism. I'm not saying this is right, but I don't think for a second that it would gain even ground with a "valid" religion. For one thing, it has such an association with cults that I think it would most certainly be identified with one. And those are... not exactly treated kindly by our justice system. Especially regarding brainwashing/mind control stuff.

Which is funny, of course, because all the religions do that.
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[quote name='Hydra of Legend' timestamp='1297281129' post='4999601']
You can prove religion exists- just head to any church, mosque, temple, what-have-you.

You can't prove any of it's [i]true[/i] or not, but it certainly exists and is a substantial factor in politics, history, and anything involving a service-industry based job.

Therefor, I think it's needed to allow students to at least learn about various religions- not necessarily to convert to them, but to at least know what they entail. It's part of the world, like it or not, and growing up unprepared for the world is the exact thing school tries to prevent.
[/quote]
OK, but by that premise Noetic Science isn't exactly high up on the list of "religions its important to know about".
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[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1297318784' post='5000566']
OK, but by that premise Noetic Science isn't exactly high up on the list of "religions its important to know about".
[/quote]

It isn't, and obviously, probably shouldn't be taught in school- or at the very most, given a footnote at the end of a lesson.

Maphotika is the only one that wanted Noetics taught.
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[quote name='Halubaris Maphotika' timestamp='1297964751' post='5014544']
There is evidence to prove that the brain contains a liquid that when used by the body... Can repair cells in the body...
Scientists have done tests with people with certain illnesses have repaired their body from illnesses and injuries just by Thinking...
[/quote]
lol. I DARE you to actually find a published study claiming that.
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  • 3 weeks later...
[quote name='Halubaris Maphotika' timestamp='1297453430' post='5002846']
Yea...


Now wait Why shouldnt Noetics be taught in schools its a science...
[/quote]
It shouldn't be taught because it doesn't hold water.

EDIT: Oops, forgot there was another page. *Ahem*

Placebo effect: Truth.

What you just said: The inverse of that.
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  • 2 months later...

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