H - Heated Heart

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090406104039/yugioh/images/thumb/a/a3/H-HeatedHeartDR04-EN-C-UE.png/300px-H-HeatedHeartDR04-EN-C-UE.png[/img]
"Select 1 face-up monster you control. It gains 500 ATK. During battle between that attacking card and a Defense Position monster whose DEF is lower than the ATK of that card, inflict the difference as Battle Damage to your opponent. These effects continue until the end of this turn."

In my opinion, it's better than Big Bang Shot, except in the obvious situations (Ie Trunade, Falcon, etc). But for purposes of OTK, it's a better card. +100 more ATK and can't make you die from an MST.

[Zkaiser]

I wonder if this stacks.

[-Berserker-]

I suppose the ATK increase stacks.

[darkwolf777]

If you activate multiples on the same monster, you'll only be getting 500 ATK. You don't inflict the difference between ATK and DEF times the number of H - Heated Heart you use on it. That part does not stack.

[Zauls]

Bing Bang Shot is pro in Snowman.dek, therefore is better. This card isn't worth it in anything.

[evilfusion]

HeroFlash.dek disagrees. Actually, HeroFlash.dek likes milling this because the other cards E, R, and O are actually useful and this isn't.

[Zkaiser]

This card isn't not useful. A 500 boost and Piercing is pretty valuable at times. I mean, yeah this is the only HERO card that doesn't +0 or more but it technically aids in getting a +0 from when you kill a monster you normally couldn't without the extra 500 ATK.

I'm gonna throw this in my Double Piercing.dek

[evilfusion]

Piercing never stacks.

[Zkaiser]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1299203078' post='5049544']
Piercing never stacks.
[/quote]
It doesn't stack with multiple copies of the same card but if I were to Summon Flamvell Uruquizas using a Needle Soldier, equipped him with Fairy Meteor Crush and then attacked and activated Lancer Archfiend and Drill Synchron's effects then my opponent would take 5x the battle damage.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1299203356' post='5049554']
It doesn't stack with multiple copies of the same card but if I were to Summon Flamvell Uruquizas using a Needle Soldier, equipped him with Fairy Meteor Crush and then attacked and activated Lancer Archfiend and Drill Synchron's effects then my opponent would take 5x the battle damage.
[/quote]

It doesn't matter how many different cards with "Piercing" effects you have. You will only do 1x the difference between ATK and DEF. Piercing is an ability. A monster is granted the ability to inflict Battle Damage by finding the Difference between its ATK and the opponent's DEF. Having another card that provides you the same ability doesn't change anything.

Just like in an RPG, you equip a Water Stone that allows your attacks to become that of the Water element. Equipping a second Water Stone doesn't make your weapon any more Water Element than it did when you have only one equipped.

[Zkaiser]

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1299204058' post='5049584']
It doesn't matter how many different cards with "Piercing" effects you have. You will only do 1x the difference between ATK and DEF. Piercing is an ability. A monster is granted the ability to inflict Battle Damage by finding the Difference between its ATK and the opponent's DEF. Having another card that provides you the same ability doesn't change anything.

Just like in an RPG, you equip a Water Stone that allows your attacks to become that of the Water element. Equipping a second Water Stone doesn't make your weapon any more Water Element than it did when you have only one equipped.
[/quote]
Each card inflicts the damage separately. It's just effect damage given the name Battle Damage.

Edit: I feel like I'm wrong. I'm going to assume that I am and have an imaginary petition in my head that will make Konami change that ruling or at least the word of the cards so that it makes more sense as to why it doesn't work. Stuff like this wouldn't happen if they switched over to "This card inflicts Piercing Damage" and "The equipped monster inflicts Piercing Damage."

Seriously though, double piercing was a fun deck type. I want it back:(

[Shizuku Oikawa]

[quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1299204610' post='5049605']
Each card inflicts the damage separately. It's just effect damage given the name Battle Damage.
[/quote]
So Don Zaloog doesn't work is what you're saying?
If the piercing stacks, then that means they can OTK.

"[b]Piercing damage is considered Battle Damage, not Effect Damage. As such, it only happens once during Damage Calculation regardless of how many piercing effects the monster would have from multiple cards.[/b]"

This corrects your statement somewhat from lolwikia.

[evilfusion]

Yeah, you're definitely wrong. It's actually not that confusing. Piercing is nothing more than Battle Damage against a Defense Position monster, using the defending monster's DEF. Battle Damage can't be inflicted multiple times in one battle, so piercing damage is just inflicted once, no matter how many methods of inflicting piercing damage you have on one monster.

[Zkaiser]

^Thanks.

Yeah, now I want a Double Piercing archetype. That inflicts the difference in ATK and DEF as [i]effect damage.[/i] Maybe a bunch of Psychic Kung Fu warriors.

OFF TO THE CARD CREATOR!!

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1299205466' post='5049643']
^Thanks.

Yeah, now I want a Double Piercing archetype. That inflicts the difference in ATK and DEF as [i]effect damage.[/i] Maybe a bunch of Psychic Kung Fu warriors.

OFF TO THE CARD CREATOR!!
[/quote]

Then basically the effect you want is "When this monster (or the equipped monster) inflicts Battle Damage to your opponent's Life Points, Inflict Damage to your opponent's Life Points equal to the Battle Damage they took."

If you want it to affect you when you take Battle Damage as well, then it would be "When this monster attacks or is attacked and Battle Damage is inflicted to a player's Life Points, Inflict Damage to that player's Life Points equal to the Battle Damage they took."

[Zkaiser]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1299205374' post='5049640']
Yeah, you're definitely wrong. It's actually not that confusing. Piercing is nothing more than Battle Damage against a Defense Position monster, using the defending monster's DEF. Battle Damage can't be inflicted multiple times in one battle, so piercing damage is just inflicted once, no matter how many methods of inflicting piercing damage you have on one monster.
[/quote]
I know I'm wrong but it really isn't that simple. I mean, the cards say, inflict the difference as Battle Damage. A card [b]effect[/b] is inflicting [b]damage[/b]. That is the definition of effect damage no matter what you call it.

If it was actually called piercing damage then I would have no problem with it at all, but the way it's worded is convoluted enough that I'm sure that I could pull one over on a couple of judges. In fact, I have before with good ol' Uruquizas and Drill Synchron.

But yeah, I now realize that I am technically wrong.

[darkwolf777]

Its not like this effect is new or anything. You'd think these judges would know this by now.

[evilfusion]

No, it specifically states "inflict the difference as [b]Battle Damage[/b]". It's Battle Damage.

The weirdest worded card with a similar issue for me was the original Gravekeeper's Vassal. Vassal's effect is to treat the Battle Damage it inflicts as Effect Damage, although it was worded weirder than that. That confused the hell out of me for years, and I for a while thought that meant it deals damage equal to the Battle Damage it inflicted (essentially being double damage). But that's not how it works at all.

Cards that give a monster a certain ability, such as attacking twice or Piercing Damage, do not stack. Cards that let you Summon twice a turn do not stack.

[Zkaiser]

Well, saying that a monster "attacks twice" and "gains an additional attack" stack. That was the mindset that I was approaching this with.

[evilfusion]

Yes, they would. Just one "additional attack" after it attacks twice, but I dont know too many card combos that permit both.

Also off the bat, Canyon and Stone Statue of the Aztecs does not stack. Sadly.

[Zkaiser]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1299207399' post='5049725']
Yes, they would. Just one "additional attack" after it attacks twice, but I dont know too many card combos that permit both.

Also off the bat, Canyon and Stone Statue of the Aztecs does not stack. Sadly.
[/quote]
Yeah I know that does't stack. A friend and I made a Sauropod Brachion.dek and that made us take the deck apart even though we still had Cross Counter to work with.

The multi attack cards I was thinking of were Twin Swords and Chain Thrasher. 4 attacks right there. Also I know that there is some Rose card that hates plants (I never understood that inner theme with plants) that gains additional attacks.

But I digress, H-Heated Heart is pretty unless you built a billy deck and are playing against 7 year olds. I used to love this card in my really old (and really bad) Jaden Highlander deck along with Hero Shield.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1299207989' post='5049738']
The multi attack cards I was thinking of were Twin Swords and Chain Thrasher. 4 attacks right there.
[/quote]

Those don't stack either.

Twin Swords allows you to attack twice. The most you can attack that turn with it are 2.

Chain Thrasher allows you to attack up to 2 additional times, 1 for each Chain Thrasher in the Graveyard. With 1 in the Graveyard, you get only 2 attacks with its effect (the normal attack its allowed, and the additional attack). With 2 in the Graveyard, it only allows 3 attacks.

If you have Twin Swords equipped to Chain Thrasher, and 2 Chain Thrashers in the Graveyard, you will only get 3 Attacks. (Which are the two additional attacks granted by Chain Thrasher's effect), meaning Twin Swords would be useless to equip onto Chain Thrasher like this.

You cannot say "i'm going to attack a second time using Twin Swords, then attack a third and fourth time with additional attacks granted by Chain Thrasher". It does not work that way. Whichever effect grants you the most attacks that turn is how many you get that turn.

If you have a monster like Asura Priest that can attack each of your opponent's monsters once each, let's say your opponent had 5 Ojamas on the field and Asura Priest attacked and destroyed them all. Now Asura Priest had attacked 5 times this turn. If it had Twin Swords equipped, since Twin Swords only grants 2 attacks that turn, and Asura Priest already had 5 that battle phase, Twin Swords doesn't work. You don't get a 6th attack to attack directly.

Meaning this: "Twin Swords" does not grant a 6th attack. It only grants a 2nd attack, and if you already had a 2nd attack this turn by any sort of effect, then no additional attacks are granted. Same with Chain Thrasher. Its effect gives it either 2 or 3 attacks. If you attack 3 times this turn by another effect, Chain Thrasher's effect wont give itself anymore than the 3 it already had this turn.