darkwolf777 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='.Kowalski' timestamp='1302101877' post='5118286'] Who cares how it sounds? It actually makes sense. Oh well, I guess we must wait for Konami to cast their official ruling on that. [/quote] If you understood my idea of "sense" in Yugioh, then you'd know this doesn't make sense xD I'm fine with being the only one on the "It wont work" side of the fence. I just don't see why it would work. Even if it is being "removed from the field" to become an Exceed Material, the fact that it would no longer have an effect because it is an "Exceed Material" and not an Effect Monster would mean its effect is null and void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 ITT: Larvae Moth is an overpowered card. [quote name='burnpsy' timestamp='1302053618' post='5117542'] Mali fueled a popular draw engine, this doesn't. [/quote] Malicious is far more abusable then Reborn Tengu. [quote name='Manjoume Thunder' timestamp='1302094334' post='5118132'] Disclaimer: BKSS rulings > Logic [/quote] AND ONCE AGAIN, KONAMI PROVES TO BE A LAZY-ASS COMPANY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='.Kowalski' timestamp='1302101877' post='5118286'] With that logic, Shapesnatch should be banned, because it's abusable [/quote] Stop posting bad cards that arent relative to the metagame. This card is potentially a +2 that gives you field presence, thins your deck, and is splashable. This card is abusable, you can't deny this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='theed123' timestamp='1302103401' post='5118337'] Stop posting bad cards that arent related to the metagame. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Nu-13 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='theed123' timestamp='1302103401' post='5118337'] This card is abusable, you can't deny this. [/quote] Shapesnatch is abusable, you can't deny this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='.Kowalski' timestamp='1302103461' post='5118341'] Shapesnatch is abusable, you can't deny this [/quote] My Little Pony - Friendship is Magic is abusable, you cant deny this. ...... owait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1302102014' post='5118292'] If you understood my idea of "sense" in Yugioh, then you'd know this doesn't make sense xD I'm fine with being the only one on the "It wont work" side of the fence. I just don't see why it would work. Even if it is being "removed from the field" to become an Exceed Material, the fact that it would no longer have an effect because it is an "Exceed Material" and not an Effect Monster would mean its effect is null and void. [/quote] Both views have sense in them really. I think I'll wait for an official ruling on this before assuming anything, since Konami hasn't said anything about exceed materials no longer being effect monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Nu-13 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1302106191' post='5118422'] Yes they have. That's part of why Sangan doesn't get it's effect. Exceed Materials (EM) are no longer treated as cards once they are overlaid. So when Sangan is sent to the graveyard as an EM it is not a "card being sent to the Graveyard" so it doesn't get it's effect. The same thing applies to this situation. When Reborn Tengu becomes an EM it immediately stops being a card. You can also take note of the fact that it never leaves the field, so that condition for it's effect wont be met. [/quote] Dandylion gets you tokens when removed from an Exceed. Argument invalid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1302106191' post='5118422'] Yes they have. That's part of why Sangan doesn't get it's effect. Exceed Materials (EM) are no longer treated as cards once they are overlaid. So when Sangan is sent to the graveyard as an EM it is not a "card being sent to the Graveyard" so it doesn't get it's effect. The same thing applies to this situation. When Reborn Tengu becomes an EM it immediately stops being a card. You can also take note of the fact that it never leaves the field, so that condition for it's effect wont be met. [/quote] The reason Sangan didn't work because it wasn't sent "from the field". Understand that (from what I heard) that Dandylion does work when it is removed as an Exceed Material and sent to the Graveyard, where Dandylion just has to be sent to the Graveyard, it doesn't matter where, so Dandylion being sent from "Exceed Spaaaaace" to the Graveyard counts as being sent to the Graveyard. There is no ruling that Exceed Materials still have their effects. I'm leaning on the side that says they do not while they are simply Exceed Materials while overlaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1302106191' post='5118422'] Yes they have. That's part of why Sangan doesn't get it's effect. Exceed Materials (EM) are no longer treated as cards once they are overlaid. So when Sangan is sent to the graveyard as an EM it is not a "card being sent to the Graveyard" so it doesn't get it's effect. The same thing applies to this situation. When Reborn Tengu becomes an EM it immediately stops being a card. [b]You can also take note of the fact that it never leaves the field[/b], so that condition for it's effect wont be met. [/quote] Exceed materials are treated as not being on the field, so it technically has left the field. That's the reason Sangan doesn't get it's effect when leaving as an exceed material, because it isn't on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkaiser Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 I didn't mean to delete my post [quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1302104148' post='5118356'] Both views have sense in them really. I think I'll wait for an official ruling on this before assuming anything, since Konami hasn't said anything about exceed materials no longer being effect monsters. [/quote] Yes they have. That's part of why Sangan doesn't get it's effect. Exceed Materials (EM) are no longer treated as cards once they are overlaid. So when Sangan is sent to the graveyard as an EM it is not a "card being sent to the Graveyard" so it doesn't get it's effect. The same thing applies to this situation. When Reborn Tengu becomes an EM it immediately stops being a card i.e. an Effect Monster card. It has no identity whatsoever just like a face-down removed from play card. You can also take note of the fact that it never leaves the field, so that condition for it's effect wont be met. [quote name='.Kowalski' timestamp='1302106327' post='5118425'] Dandylion gets you tokens when removed from an Exceed. Argument invalid. [/quote] That's because the requirements for Dandylion's effect to activate is for it to be sent to the Graveyard. It doesn't care where it just came from. Rebuttal invalid. From the Konami Exceed Q&A: [quote]Q: You Special Summon Plaguespreader Zombie with its own effect. Can you use it as an Exceed Material? If so, is it Removed from Play? A: You can use a Plaguespreader Zombie that was Special Summoned by its own effect as an Exceed Material. If you do, it's no longer treated as a monster, so it's not Removed from Play [b]when it leaves the Field[/b]. Furthermore, once the Exceed Monster leaves the Field, Plaguespreader Zombie is sent to the Graveyard.[/quote] Exceed Materials do count as being on the field, but as Exceed Materials only and not as cards so any effect that requires a [b]card[/b] to have been on the field won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1302106491' post='5118430'] Yes they have. That's part of why Sangan doesn't get it's effect. Exceed Materials (EM) are no longer treated as cards once they are overlaid. So when Sangan is sent to the graveyard as an EM it is not a "card being sent to the Graveyard" so it doesn't get it's effect. The same thing applies to this situation. When Reborn Tengu becomes an EM it immediately stops being a card i.e. an Effect Monster card. It has no identity whatsoever just like a face-down removed from play card. You can also take note of the fact that it never leaves the field, so that condition for it's effect wont be met. [/quote] [quote]Q: If a Sangan was used as an Exceed material, when it goes to grave, do you get the search effect? A: When the Sangan becomes an Exceed material, it is no longer treated to be 'on the field', therefore you will not be able to search as it [b]did not enter grave from field.[/b] (The same would apply to cards like DD Survivor, etc) [/quote] Copied strait from the FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='Plaguespreader Zombie Q&A Answer'] [i]If you do, [b]it's no longer treated as a monster[/b], so it's not Removed from Play when it leaves the Field.[/i] [/quote] That part is all you need to know which confirms you would not get Reborn Tengu's effect when used as an Exceed Material when it is overlaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkaiser Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Welp, everything I said is still basically true since what we have here is conflicting statements from Konami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Z Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 I actually have a reason to go to a sneak peek now... Anyone know when Sneak Peek actually is?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1302107399' post='5118449'] Welp, everything I said is still basically true since what we have here is conflicting statements from Konami. [/quote] Wut, What are you referring to as the "conflicting" statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkaiser Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote]Q: You Special Summon Plaguespreader Zombie with its own effect. Can you use it as an Exceed Material? If so, is it Removed from Play? A: You can use a Plaguespreader Zombie that was Special Summoned by its own effect as an Exceed Material. If you do, it's no longer treated as a monster, [b]so it's not Removed from Play when it leaves the Field.[/b] Furthermore, once the Exceed Monster leaves the Field, Plaguespreader Zombie is sent to the Graveyard.[/quote] [quote]Q: If a Sangan was used as an Exceed material, when it goes to grave, do you get the search effect? A: When the Sangan becomes an Exceed material, [b]it is no longer treated to be 'on the field',[/b] therefore you will not be able to search as it did not enter grave from field. (The same would apply to cards like DD Survivor, etc)[/quote] I always notice my mistakes 1 post too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1302115152' post='5118610'] [code]Q: You Special Summon Plaguespreader Zombie with its own effect. Can you use it as an Exceed Material? If so, is it Removed from Play? A: You can use a Plaguespreader Zombie that was Special Summoned by its own effect as an Exceed Material. If you do, it's no longer treated as a monster, [b]so it's not Removed from Play when it leaves the Field.[/b] Furthermore, once the Exceed Monster leaves the Field, Plaguespreader Zombie is sent to the Graveyard.[/code] I always notice my mistakes 1 post too late. [/quote] 1) The monster is no longer treated as a monster and no longer has its effect when it becomes a Exceed Material. Plaguespreader Zombie becomes an Exceed Material and loses its effect. Because it no longer have its effect, when it is removed from the field to become overlaid, it cannot remove itself from play. 2) Sangan only works when sent from the field to the Graveyard. When it is an overlay, it is not on the field so being sent from an overlay to the Graveyard is not the same as "from the field to the Graveyard" so Sangan doesn't work. There is no conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1302115695' post='5118625'] 1) The monster is no longer treated as a monster and no longer has its effect when it becomes a Exceed Material. Plaguespreader Zombie becomes an Exceed Material and loses its effect. Because it no longer have its effect, when it is removed from the field, it cannot remove itself from play. 2) Sangan only works when sent from the field to the Graveyard. When it is an overlay, it is not on the field so being sent from an overlay to the Graveyard is not the same as "from the field to the Graveyard" so Sangan doesn't work. There is no conflict. [/quote] What he's saying is how can plague be removed from the field if it's not on the field. Though that wasn't the problem I was pointing out, and I don't think they meant the plague thing literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1302115785' post='5118627'] What he's saying is how can plague be removed from the field if it's not on the field. Though that wasn't the problem I was pointing out, and I don't think they meant the plague thing literally. [/quote] The thing is, Plaguespreader Zombie IS removed from the field (in any technicality, if it is on the field, then it is no longer on the field, that is considered removed from the field), but it is an Exceed Material monster at that point and had lost its effect before it is removed from the field as an Exceed Material. Based on the rulings so far, that's what i've determined. For the sake of Reborn Tengu, it no longer has its effect when it is removed from the field to be overlaid, and therefore would not activate, as the Plaguespreader Ruling states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1302116152' post='5118633'] The thing is, Plaguespreader Zombie IS removed from the field (in any technicality, if it is on the field, then it is no longer on the field, that is considered removed from the field), but it is an Exceed Material monster at that point and had lost its effect before it is removed from the field as an Exceed Material. [/quote] Now you're contradicting yourself. It's being said that Sangan doesn't get it's effect when removed from an exceed because it is treated as not being on the field, so why is plague treated as being on the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1302116366' post='5118641'] Now you're contradicting yourself. It's being said that Sangan doesn't get it's effect when removed from an exceed because it is treated as not being on the field, so why is plague treated as being on the field? [/quote] Plaguespreader Zombie is a Monster with an effect when it is on the field (of course) When used for an Exceed Summon, Plaguespreader Zombie BECOMES an effect-less Exceed Material, THEN it is removed from the field to be overlaid. (all this as a part of the Exceed Summoning process) At this point where Plaguespreader Zombie was removed from the field, it didn't have any effect, so its effect that removes itself from play does not work. For the Sake of Sangan, as a Material, it is not on the field, so it cannot be properly sent "From the field to the Graveyard", so its effect does not activate. NEITHER Plaguespreader Zombie nor Sangan are on the field when they are Exceed Materials =/ There is no contradiction, there was no mistake with what I said either. The two cards are doing two completely different things with two reasons as to why they do not activate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 I reread our posts and I think we've a communication error. [quote] What he's saying is how can plague be removed from the field if it's not on the field. Though that wasn't the problem I was pointing out, and I don't think they meant the plague thing literally. [/quote] This was talking when plague is sent to the grave while it's an exceed material, not while using it to exceed summon. I reread the posts and you weren't contradicting yourself, I just misunderstood what you were saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 [quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1302116979' post='5118659'] This was talking when plague is sent to the grave while it's an exceed material, not while using it to exceed summon. I reread the posts and you weren't contradicting yourself, I just misunderstood what you were saying. [/quote] When Plaguespreader Zombie loses its effect and becomes an Exceed Material, how it was Special Summoned when it was a monster is gone. It is not a monster anymore, it is simply an "Exceed Material". When it is removed from the Exceed, it'll go to the Graveyard. The timing for Plaguespreader to have gone to the remove from play with its effect was when it was removed from the field, and it was removed from the field when it did not have an effect at the time it was overlaid If we're all talking about different things, then what have we been saying to each other this past page? Dx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Z Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Just stop with the pointless-ness of all this!! Konami will [s]not[/s] tell us how this card is used with exceeds when both are present in the OCG / TCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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