Tourmaline Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='Mikhail Nekem'evič Tal' timestamp='1303127626' post='5148189'] Taxes increasing is a bad thing? I must presume you are American. Different jobs require different skills, but to punish those who dropped out just because they aren't good enough is sadistic. And why should the government not have control over many things? They are the government after all. What if they followed your principle of only putting their fingers into some economic and social areas? America tried that. They have the worst healthcare system in the world. Obama is trying to change that but the Republican house won't have it. I live in England. We have a National Health Service, and a very good one at that. I'm proud of it. The world envies it. Many of my family have been saved from death by it. One of the greatest minds in history, Stephen Hawking, was allowed to live a good life due to it. We currently have a Right-Wing government, very similar to the Republicans in ideology and in policy. They are trying to privatise our NHS, slowly whittling away at it, weakening it. Without the NHS Dentistry, I would still suffer from a terrible genetic disorder that affects my teeth. I would be wearing false ones if I was lucky, or if I couldn't afford it I would experience pain every time I ate or drank. Without the NHS Surgery, I would still have a painful hernia in my groin. The government puts it's fingers in places so it can help people. The age of Western Dictatorships and Totalitarianism is dead, so arguing that it is Orwellian is pointless. Extreme equality is another perceived flaw in Communism, but we could fix the working problem quite simply. Give working co-operatives (of course, run by the workers themselves) the opportunity to report people who are not working hard enough. These people can then be offered an alternate job of their choosing. Threaten them with punishment if they don't do the work. They have the choice to work somewhere else, to do a less strenuous job. Better still, they won't be discouraged by the old "some jobs pay less" problem. This ideal means that everyone gets a job they want at no cost to their living standards. I don't want the government (run by the working people, no less) to have absolute control. People still have freedom of speech, freedom of thought. It won't be a single party state. They could vote for a different party at the next election. In the meantime, they can move somewhere else. We get voted in, we make laws. Everyone gets a say. This isn't to say that this would happen overnight, of course. We'd need at least a couple of years to get everything in check, to flush out capitalism, to arrange the economy to fit the Socio-Marxist ideology. But it is very likely to be a success. [/quote] Absolutely not. I'm Canadian. It was a simple assumption, of course, so I really don't mind. I'd hate to live in America. I'm quite fine with this. Actually, most of the time, I take being called an American as an insult. But you've no way of knowing, so I don't mind. I'd rather know your age, though. I can't see many people speaking of such a topic at fifteen. Unless you're an adult, too. I'm not adept with this sort of conversation, to be honest. And the government here does put it's fingers around, as well. I, myself, will assume that our own health care is our most popular gain that our taxes do. The pay isn't very equal in accordance to job, though the better payed have larger taxes off their salary while the lesser payed get less taxes. People here can even abuse the welfare system. They can say they're searching for a new job, yet not have their welfare cut off if nobody finds out they're lying. Albeit, it really is a low and bare amount of money you make from Welfare, buy it still awards laziness to some of the wrong people. In addition, taxes are payed to keep prisoners in jail by sending prisons money and such. But what if I don't want to pay for some murderers, rapists or arsonists, per se, to even have the chance to lie down in a bed tonight, rather than possibly get what they deserve? Or, maybe I think the other way, and that what they deserve is to stay in there for a royal fraction of their lives to think of what they've done. Perhaps I would have liked that extra money to feed some of the prisoners their just desserts. Now, if people would be punished for not working, wouldn't that go against the complete, free willpart that communism is about? In a government where I should be able to do, to a large extent, anything with my life, I wouldn't accept being punished for something I never even had to do in the first place. In a perfect communism, do you think there'd be welfare? Or would people have things taken away because they're making the decision not to work? How could you make the wish of such a grand, utopian government without putting it into gear? I do think you should take action when you have influence. One voice is easily pushed aside, a portion of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='Mikhail Nekem'evič Tal' timestamp='1303127626' post='5148189'] Extreme equality is another perceived flaw in Communism, but we could fix the working problem quite simply. Give working co-operatives (of course, run by the workers themselves) the opportunity to report people who are not working hard enough. These people can then be offered an alternate job of their choosing. Threaten them with punishment if they don't do the work. They have the choice to work somewhere else, to do a less strenuous job. Better still, they won't be discouraged by the old "some jobs pay less" problem. This ideal means that everyone gets a job they want at no cost to their living standards. I don't want the government (run by the working people, no less) to have absolute control. People still have freedom of speech, freedom of thought. It won't be a single party state. They could vote for a different party at the next election. In the meantime, they can move somewhere else. We get voted in, we make laws. Everyone gets a say. This isn't to say that this would happen overnight, of course. We'd need at least a couple of years to get everything in check, to flush out capitalism, to arrange the economy to fit the Socio-Marxist ideology. But it is very likely to be a success. [/quote] So everyone gets the same pay, but those who slack off get either reassigned or punished somehow? I'm starting to like this system. However, I assume there would have to be some kind of benefits for going to college other than pure enlightenment or hardly anyone would go. Having a lot of equally ignorant people isn't exactly ideal. Also, would the government really be able to create that many jobs? These are important questions if we actually can expect to change our form of government. I assume we get to keep Amendment 1 and it's right of free speech, press and religion. Oh, and by the way. Turn on Fox News. Look at the people. There are a lot of people that think like that. Try convincing them. A conversion to Socialism or Socio-Marxism or anything like that is not going to happen anytime soon other than through extremely unethical means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='Mikhail Nekem'evič Tal' timestamp='1303127626' post='5148189'] Taxes increasing is a bad thing? I must presume you are American. [/quote] Im an american and Im okay with the tax system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFauKorean Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Im an american citizen and i think i know my country quite well @katsura first of all I'd like to say that although i see that you are trying to say your age is a factor of inexpereince in the world, it dosnt mean that you are nessesarily less valid in your points then those that are older than you. I am not over 21 or anything yet I have more knowledge of political veiws, theories and systems than many adults and at the same time there is a vast sum of people younger than I am with a greater range of knowledge than myself for the same subjects. @the question Taking the question literally may be one of the best ways to answer a large portion of this question. For now you are asking about the existance of major political parties in the american democracy. The reason our founding fathers theorized political parties were to create linkage institutions. linkage institutions are entities, providing and privalaging the american people to interact and become active with their governement. Almost immediatly a multi-party system evolved into a dual-party system (democrates and republicans) because people wanted something to affiliate with, without having prior and in depth knowledge about political canidates and public policies. Americans are much to "busy" to deal with research on political canidates, policies, bills etc... so linkage institutions such as political parties are there to pretty much carpet the general very broad coverage. in a nutshell what does that mean? Why do we have them? 1. people demanded for it in order to become involved with their government 2. american citizens are quite "busy" (lazy) to do actual reseach themselves 3. politicians need political parties just as much as citizens because they also lack proper 3rd person knowledge =( @extension although this pretty much answers the question given, thanks to the other contributers to this post I'm so tempted to answer other questions that have not been asked, such as. my opinion on the 2 major political parties... how we differ from other country linkage institutions and government systems? and my opinion on if we should change the american linkage institution system? well for my opinion on 2 parties I like to refer back to the american theorists locke and hobbes locke, beleived that the american people are born good and can rightfully judge themselves and others, there for everyone deserve equality in voice and representation. (for political parties) while hobbes argued that the american people are to stupid to deal with politics and only politicians should deal with matters such as the ones mentioned, canidates, policies, taxation, laws etc... (againts political parties) lockes theories were valid years ago, when hypocracy in american tyranny was a viable problem. now that it is obvious that tyranny isnt an issue and stupidity is might as well listen to what hobbes has to say. plus we seemed to shift towards that theory anyways less voter turnouts, conflictions between parties, electoral collage government always had final word and no ones complained that they never had a voice. instead everyones been complaing about the s*** job governments doing, because like show buisness your suppose to "give them what they want" and yes american government isnt the most ethical thing in the world, but atleast they have the knowledge, that the ignorant stupidity of the american people pretend to have. this means of course dual-parities are out of the question, washington himself predicted these failure over a 100 years before it even happened. But he did argue that if there was a multi-party system consisting of more than 4 major parties its would cause much more alliance varieties between commities, cabnit, and parties themselves. The decisions made will be almost 3rd person or even neutral. so we got 2 options that take a long ass process, which dont shift the democracie checks and balance system and stability go hobbes on this country OR or split up the 2 major parties in to 4 smaller ones, more specializing for certain veiw points. (this one is a shittyer idea that will be a huge process and may not have as much of a significant effect, its a gamble compared to going hobbes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='Thatnoobkorean' timestamp='1303162930' post='5149466'] The reason our founding fathers theorized political parties [/quote] Federalist 10. No, seriously, if the first thing you discuss when talking about the founders' opinions on parties isn't Federalist 10, you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFauKorean Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='Crab Helmet' timestamp='1303166045' post='5149628'] Federalist 10. No, seriously, if the first thing you discuss when talking about the founders' opinions on parties isn't Federalist 10, you're doing it wrong. [/quote] its important sure but hamilton came a bit late with federalist papers and its not as relevent as to answering the literal question, how ever if you think there is more to be added implementing fed. 10 to answer this, im not stoping you. I'd like to be educated myself, like a mentioned earlier, I may know my american democracy but there is a large sum of people who know it much better than i do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrow. Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='• Starrk •' timestamp='1302926984' post='5142099'] .....Stalin? [/quote] OH you Russian Bear Communist and your silly Stalin praising... I don't really focus on present day American Politics, just as long as I still have a home to stay in I'm completely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master White Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Well, anyone that cares about my opinion and even wants to argue.... Yes, I'm American My opinion is that each state should have their own problems and not meddle in affair with other countries. Granted that our President that half the people voted for was afraid of being considered racist, but end up in the process of being sexist b/c there was an female candidate. Granted that we are in war b/c our government is full people who want power beyond the world.... But all in all, my main point is that our country is meant to be republican, as it says in [i][b]The Pledge of Allegiance[/b][/i] since 1892 "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the [b]republic[/b] for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance"]Not sure, go and read here[/url] Albeit I'm not any party as of yet and will probably never choose b/c all the parties have loads of things I don't agree on and have lots of things I do agree on...The closest yet farthest is the constitution party.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='Master White' timestamp='1303189007' post='5150767'] Well, anyone that cares about my opinion and even wants to argue.... Yes, I'm American My opinion is that each state should have their own problems and not meddle in affair with other countries. Granted that our President that half the people voted for was afraid of being considered racist, but end up in the process of being sexist b/c there was an female candidate. Granted that we are in war b/c our government is full people who want power beyond the world.... But all in all, my main point is that our country is meant to be republican, as it says in [i][b]The Pledge of Allegiance[/b][/i] since 1892 "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the [b]republic[/b] for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance"]Not sure, go and read here[/url] Albeit I'm not any party as of yet and will probably never choose b/c all the parties have loads of things I don't agree on and have lots of things I do agree on...The closest yet farthest is the constitution party.... [/quote] This post shows such a gross amount of ignorance that I think it broke something important inside of me. I'll have to check to make sure, but I think I require surgery. I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master White Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Ignorant...Ahem, you didn't even read, did you.... Also, even if you posted, I proly wouldn't read b/c you'd fall under one of the political parties, don't matter which, don't like any of them.... * I am non-sexist* * I am a person who believes Government should be gone* * I am a person that knows our economy is going to end no matter what we do, it will* * I am a person that believe the only reason we are in debt is b/c the Government owes the people* * I am a person with many accusations and policies and a non-racist* * I am a person that knows that if there is no Government, chaos would happen* * I am a person and only a person with a mind of my own and have my own opinions, whether people think I am ignorant or not, i still believe it is not right to judge people based on their writing, but to base them in person...* * I am a person that most politics would not want to meet, speak, or anything b/c they would have no reason to* * I am a person that wants full total freedom, meaning people could defend themselves or kill themselves, b/c the people wouldn't want to b/c it would be no fun or pointless b/c they can get away with it, like a kid* * I am a person that wonders why people think I'm ignorant when this thread is missing other political parties* * I am wondering why I am even posting here b/c i hate politics and talking about politics* * I believe that our government gone would be a good thing, chaos would role in, awhile later, people will get tired, and go and become small states, and have small governments running them* * I believe in small federal governments and shall not be linked to any other governments* This continues on and on, and I proly won't post here again b/c it will get heated quickly and all i wanted was to get something said....and won't if people keep saying I'm ignorant.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFauKorean Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='Master White' timestamp='1303192065' post='5150809'] Ignorant...Ahem, you didn't even read, did you.... Also, even if you posted, I proly wouldn't read b/c you'd fall under one of the political parties, don't matter which, don't like any of them.... [b]political parties are not the root of all evil its the people within it, although to change the attitude and minds of the masses is unlikely[/b] * I am non-sexist* [b]I dont understand what that has to do with anything[/b] * I am a person who believes Government should be gone* [b]unfortunatly government is a nessesity for society to function[/b] * I am a person that knows our economy is going to end no matter what we do, it will* [b]not to fear the cycle of economy forces a depression, to become a recovery[/b] * I am a person that believe the only reason we are in debt is b/c the Government owes the people*[b] A common misconception even with national debt it is possible to be in a state of surplus[/b] * I am a person with many accusations and policies and a non-racist* [b]i can see that, but im not sure how being non-racist fits in with the other 2 catagories[/b] * I am a person that knows that if there is no Government, chaos would happen* [b]ah, altough you've made a contradiction you've corrected me, my bad of accusing you*[/b] * I am a person and only a person with a mind of my own and have my own opinions, whether people think I am ignorant or not, i still believe it is not right to judge people based on their writing, but to base them in person...* [b]fine by me[/b] * I am a person that most politics would not want to meet, speak, or anything b/c they would have no reason to* [b]agreed, that goes for most people, a politicans only intrests are usually his mutual or benificial alliances[/b] * I am a person that wants full total freedom, meaning people could defend themselves or kill themselves, b/c the people wouldn't want to b/c it would be no fun or pointless b/c they can get away with it, like a kid* [b]advice for the future of your writting, to many "B/C" confuses a reader[/b] * I am a person that wonders why people think I'm ignorant when this thread is missing other political parties* [b]because the question only asks about the 2 major parties, which are imaged to be failing parties[/b] * I am wondering why I am even posting here b/c i hate politics and talking about politics* [b]oh.... okay this may reason to an assumption on your ignorance[/b] * I believe that our government gone would be a good thing, chaos would role in, awhile later, people will get tired, and go and become small states, and have small governments running them* [b]we already had that before, before the invention of the constitution and centralized government, america used to be under the articles of confederation allowing state government to have supreme decision. It turned out to be the worst idea ever[/b] * I believe in small federal governments and shall not be linked to any other governments* [b]federal governements are the leading cause of civil war[/b] This continues on and on, and I proly won't post here again b/c it will get heated quickly and all i wanted was to get something said....and won't if people keep saying I'm ignorant.... [b]its always good to voice opinion, it helps you learn from triumps and faults, which is why no matter how much times I may sound absolutly stupid, I keep debating, read it over after the smoke clears and learn from my mistakes as well as keep my stronger veiw points.... hmmm one more quick note of advice, do not ever argue that you are not ignorant, because in truth everyone is. a stubborn thought over logic will be detremental to openly taking in other minds[/b][/quote] responces in bold bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehmani Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1303133766' post='5148305'] So everyone gets the same pay, but those who slack off get either reassigned or punished somehow? I'm starting to like this system. However, I assume there would have to be some kind of benefits for going to college other than pure enlightenment or hardly anyone would go. Having a lot of equally ignorant people isn't exactly ideal. Also, would the government really be able to create that many jobs? These are important questions if we actually can expect to change our form of government. I assume we get to keep Amendment 1 and it's right of free speech, press and religion. Oh, and by the way. Turn on Fox News. Look at the people. There are a lot of people that think like that. Try convincing them. A conversion to Socialism or Socio-Marxism or anything like that is not going to happen anytime soon other than through extremely unethical means. [/quote] You know what I say? Utopia justifies the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaouJudai Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I'm a moderate conservative but I might as well be liberal these days with how far right my party is leaning. I'd like to see more central and cooperative schools of thinking emerge. Instead we are getting the opposite. Extremism will divide us and those divisions will lead to physical conflict. If we don't find a middle ground this country could be looking at another civil war in coming decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='HaouJudai' timestamp='1303221029' post='5151427'] I'm a moderate conservative but I might as well be liberal these days with how far right my party is leaning. I'd like to see more central and cooperative schools of thinking emerge. Instead we are getting the opposite. Extremism will divide us and those divisions will lead to physical conflict. If we don't find a middle ground this country could be looking at another civil war in coming decades. [/quote] THIS A MILLION TIMES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I might as well stay republican I just never can agree with anything Democrats do but hey... I am only one guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFauKorean Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 free energy party.... legalize it bro XP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehmani Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1303224181' post='5151557'] THIS A MILLION TIMES! [/quote] There is a reason I'm not Right-Wing. It's because Conservatives are unfair. They punish the poor and those unable to work and reward the rich, including those who didn't need to work for their riches. They make the richer richer and the poor poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='Mikhail Nekem'evič Tal' timestamp='1303413551' post='5157178'] There is a reason I'm not Right-Wing. It's because Conservatives are unfair. They punish the poor and those unable to work and reward the rich, including those who didn't need to work for their riches. They make the richer richer and the poor poorer. [/quote] That's not conservatism. It's capitalism. Also, they're not trying to punish the poor, they simply do not reward those who choose not to work. Liberals at least try to rectify this, but they fail to avoid loop holes and potential methods for exploitation. For instance, trying to tax the rich more doesn't help at all. The only people who could actually make a difference simply outset their resources and end up paying only 5-10% of their 25 million dollar salary. How about instead of giving poor people money, give them a job instead? O_o A real job, that pays wages they can actually live off of. I'm all for taxing the hell out of those who are truly rich, but we can't just tax people who have a static salary that happens to be fairly high and expect s*** to get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogg-Saron Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Without parties random people would run for president without people knowing anything about them. This is how dictators are born. All countries that voted a dictator in probably had no 'party' on which to choose sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 We sure as hell can't tax the people who are just barely getting by. [i]give them a job instead[/i] As if that is an easy thing to do. I swear, if we had an abundance of jobs in this country, our unemployment rate would be close to zero. Sadly, that isn't the case. A lot of the jobs we currently have require at least a high school diploma and recommend a college degree. Only our current generation has a high rate of getting college degrees. You can't slap someone in a job at McDonalds and expect them to feed their family on minimum wage. They need legitimate jobs, and sometimes those aren't available to give out like candy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Corgi Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Srry, but I can't be a part of this discussion. Mainly because I don't know what "terubble" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFauKorean Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 [quote name='Xx\Mew/xX' timestamp='1303458558' post='5158607'] Srry, but I can't be a part of this discussion. Mainly because I don't know what "terubble" means. [/quote] its "terrible" the way cleveland brown says it from family guy or the cleveland show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogg-Saron Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 [quote name='Dark' timestamp='1303441330' post='5158175'] We sure as hell can't tax the people who are just barely getting by. [i]give them a job instead[/i] As if that is an easy thing to do. I swear, if we had an abundance of jobs in this country, our unemployment rate would be close to zero. Sadly, that isn't the case. A lot of the jobs we currently have require at least a high school diploma and recommend a college degree. Only our current generation has a high rate of getting college degrees. You can't slap someone in a job at McDonalds and expect them to feed their family on minimum wage. They need legitimate jobs, and sometimes those aren't available to give out like candy. [/quote] So you're saying everyone should get jobs easily? Without any sort of education? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 [quote name='Fallen Pizza' timestamp='1303504977' post='5160082'] So you're saying everyone should get jobs easily? Without any sort of education? [/quote] Even if this were to happen, it would still be hard to get a job since everyone would be able to get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 [quote name='Dark' timestamp='1303441330' post='5158175'] We sure as hell can't tax the people who are just barely getting by. [i]give them a job instead[/i] As if that is an easy thing to do. I swear, if we had an abundance of jobs in this country, our unemployment rate would be close to zero. Sadly, that isn't the case. A lot of the jobs we currently have require at least a high school diploma and recommend a college degree. Only our current generation has a high rate of getting college degrees. You can't slap someone in a job at McDonalds and expect them to feed their family on minimum wage. They need legitimate jobs, and sometimes those aren't available to give out like candy. [/quote] Yeah yeah, I know. I'm just saying that if we could, it would be better than giving them money. I guess this is why people like Communism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.