Morphing Jar #2

[.Nu-13]

[center][img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070416034350/yugioh/images/thumb/6/68/MorphingJar2DB1-EN-R-UE.jpg/300px-MorphingJar2DB1-EN-R-UE.jpg[/img]

Wrecks pretty much any "perfect" lockdown. Discuss[/center]

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

This + All Out Attacks = Possible infinite loop lulz.

[.Nu-13]

^Awesome Troll.dek

[Lonk]

Naturias laugh at this card.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='Klavier Gavin' timestamp='1304191932' post='5179510']
^Awesome Troll.dek
[/quote]
It's sad that the WC games don't register it as infinite, so useing needle worm doesn't work

[.Nu-13]

Yeah, on WC11 games, you must use Mecha Bunny for burn OTK

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

I used hiro the shadow scout for draw otk.

[Tourmaline]

I absolutely love this card. Arguably my favorite level 3 monster of all and my favorite flip-effect monster of all. It's really awesome to spam Shallow Grave so your opponent brings his big monsters out, thinking he's got the game, then flipping this and watching your opponent send four level six or seven monsters from their field to their deck, milling 10 spells and/or traps, ending up with four monsters they didn't need and getting another one of these for next turn.

Anyways, I'd love to use this against synchros because it works better than CED on them, unless it's Red Dragon Archfiend, or something.

[-Griffin]

This guy's FLIP still triggers if it was the target of RDA's attack.


Card is <3

[Tourmaline]

srsly dood?

Oh yeah. My favorite Rock, level three, flip effect and older monster of all. Totally badass. It's unfortunate stupid cards and concepts like Spamurais are overpowered while cards with sexy concepts like this one are underused and put aside. I have had mch more fun using a deck around this than generic Blackwings or Plant Synchro will ever garner.

[Birkeland]

Maybe helps Worms...? Sounded better in my head. The Deck thinning also comes in handy.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1304192474' post='5179543']
It's sad that the WC games don't register it as infinite, so useing needle worm doesn't work
[/quote]

Hopefully all this is right, its takes quite a few tests to figure everything out o.x

Automatic Loops stop when they would show no change at activation. Morphing Jar #2 will NOT activate if there would be no net change in doing so (based on Morphing Jar #2's activation). In order for Morphing Jar #2 to activate thanks to All-Out Attacks:

1: If there are non-Monster cards left in your Deck (Spells/Traps), Morphing Jar #2 will activate until it has milled them all.

2: If there are only Monster Cards in your Deck, then "Morphing Jar #2" cannot have 100% chance of being Summoned by its own effect, based on the total number of non-Morphing Jar #2 monsters (both on Your Field and in Your Deck) and the number of Monster Cards that would be shuffled back into the Deck at activation.

Therefore, based on the number of Monster Cards on your side of the field AT ACTIVATION, the number of available non-Morphing Jar #2 monsters (both the ones on your side of the Field and the ones remaining in the deck) must be equal to or exceed the number of Monster Cards that would be shuffled into the Deck. If not, Morphing Jar #2 will NOT activate in response to being flipped by All-Out Attacks and the loop will end.

If after #1 has been satisfied and #2 is True, then Morphing Jar #2's effect will continue to activate until the Monster Card Zones that need to be filled (however many that were shuffled into the Deck) are filled with Non-Morphing Jar #2 monsters.

You can still activate Morphing Jar #2 manually after this point (say you flipped it face down with Book of Moon, then back up with Book of Taiyou) and it will resolve fine, but the INFINITE LOOP will stop if it believes that there will always be a "Morphing Jar #2" summoned by its effect and no change will occur because of it. Understand that other Monster Card effects are NOT considered in this (such as Poison Mummy's damage effect which would eventually bring an opponent's LP to 0). The only effects the Loop considers is Morphing Jar #2 and All-Out Attacks in regards to whether or not the loop can continue.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

@darkwolf: Yes, but the WC video games don't do this by what I've seen.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1304210601' post='5180345']
@darkwolf: Yes, but the WC video games don't do this by what I've seen.
[/quote]

For example?

Also note that tests were done in WC2010 for what I posted there o.x; If something is happening differently from what I said, then what are the conditions to which it happened that way?

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1304211023' post='5180359']
For example?

Also note that tests were done in WC2010 for what I posted there o.x;
[/quote]
I did the loop with this and Needleworm and never saw it end. It might've benn a very lucky plain loop though, in which case it was the game saying "The loop can still go on and has an end, so even though there's no point to this at all, I'm gonna annoy you and keep going for 3 hours straight >:[b][/b]D

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1304211345' post='5180370']
I did the loop with this and Needleworm and never saw it end. It might've benn a very lucky plain loop though, in which case it was the game saying "The loop can still go on and has an end, so even though there's no point to this at all, I'm gonna annoy you and keep going for 3 hours straight >:[b][/b]D
[/quote]

But then what must be known is:

A: How many cards were going to be returned to the Deck?

B: How many non-Morphing Jar #2 monsters were on the field and in the Deck? If this number is equal to or exceeds the number of cards that would be shuffled into the Deck, then it will activate continuously until you Summon all non-Morphing jar #2 monsters.

I can try it with Needleworm as well to see if it is truly infinite or if it'll still end up stopping. It could also be possible that things have changed in WC11 (such as when the Armory Arm/Colossal Fighter rulings changed). You may have also been lucky and kept Special Summoning Morphing jar #2 and not all "Needleworms" only.

For example (in WC2010), you have 3 monsters on the field to be Special Summoned and a total of 1 Morphing Jar #2 and 3 Needleworms left on the field and deck. Since you have 4 monsters left and 3 of them aren't Morphing Jar #2, those 3 "Needleworms" may end up the only monsters Special Summoned by Morphing Jar #2's effect, and it will continue until that happens, ending the Loop.

If you had 4 Monsters instead during the same scenario, You have no choice but to Special Summon all 4 monsters, including "Morphing Jar #2" forever and ever, and the game will end the loop by prevent Morphing Jar #2's activation when flipped by All-Out Attacks)

At least that's what I've tried to bring up to the solution of why it stops. There could be something missing and I may be wrong somewhere on it.

Its usually easier to test things in WC10 because the first CPU opponent has nothing stronger than 1700 ATK. The Moja will end up getting annoying by setting up Beast Striker or King of the Beasts and powering it up, but I guess the Moja only has probably one of each in its deck, the rest are relatively weak monsters.