Shizuku Oikawa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Umm...actually...isn't Fusion considered a Special Summon?Yes, but it can't be negated by Black Horn of Heaven because it isn't an inherit Special Summon, like a Synchro or Xyz Summon. So Black Horn of Heaven can't stop Monster Reborn, but can stop something like Unknown Synchron or Black Rose Dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Umm...actually...isn't Fusion considered a Special Summon? Black Horn of Heaven, Thunder King Rai-Oh, and Solemn Judgment cannot negate Special Summons that occur due to the resolution of a card's effect (any effect that starts a chain). Inherent Special Summons like Cyber Dragon, Synchros, and similar are fair game. It's a common error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yes, but it can't be negated by Black Horn of Heaven because it isn't an inherit Special Summon, like a Synchro or Xyz Summon. So Black Horn of Heaven can't stop Monster Reborn, but can stop something like Unknown Synchron or Black Rose Dragon. That makes no sense. Black Horn of Heaven says it negates a Special Summon. It doesn't specify inherit or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 That makes no sense. Black Horn of Heaven says it negates a Special Summon. It doesn't specify inherit or anything.Yes, it negates a Special Summon. Not an effect that includes a Special Summon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Black Horn of Heaven, Thunder King Rai-Oh, and Solemn Judgment cannot negate Special Summons that occur due to the resolution of a card's effect (any effect that starts a chain). Inherent Special Summons like Cyber Dragon, Synchros, and similar are fair game. It's a common error. That's confusing man. And nobody has corrected me. Not even at the tournament I went too. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenxAtemYAOI Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 He was joking, hence the white text.Sorry, not been wearing my glasses or contacts lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shizuku Oikawa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 That makes no sense. Black Horn of Heaven says it negates a Special Summon. It doesn't specify inherit or anything.That's how it is, though.If you want to know why it doesn't make sense, just go check the top left of the back of your Yugioh card, and you will realize why it doesn't make sense. Lol, Solemn Warning"Negate the Summon of a monster OR the activation of a Spell Card, Trap Card, or Effect Monster's effect that includes an effect that Special Summons a monster(s), and destroy that card." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 That's confusing man. And nobody has corrected me. Not even at the tournament I went too. :(It's strange, but it's how it's supposed to work. Cards that are worded like Black Horn can only negate inherent Summons, like Synchros or cards like CyDra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yes, it negates a Special Summon. Not an effect that includes a Special Summon. Guy uses monster reborn. Dark soldier is special summoned. I can't negate that? Or three Blue Eyes are fused for BEUD. I can't negate that either even though it's a special summon? O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Guy uses monster reborn. Dark soldier is special summoned. I can't negate that? Or three Blue Eyes are fused for BEUD. I can't negate that either even though it's a special summon? O.oNot with Black Horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 That's confusing man. And nobody has corrected me. Not even at the tournament I went too. :( It's less confusing than you'd think, although newcomers would definitely be puzzled. One of the reasons Solemn Warning is so good is because it can stop effects that Special Summon, and therefore doesn't have the same ruling exceptions as Solemn Judgment. That's hopefully going to be cleared up when Problem Solving Card Text is more widespread and those Traps get reworded to be clearer that they cannot stop effects that Special Summon. As you can probably see, Black Horn of Heaven isn't considered "good" for a reason. It can stop common Special Summon methods (especially Synchros), but most get by its radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shizuku Oikawa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Guy uses monster reborn. Dark soldier is special summoned. I can't negate that? Or three Blue Eyes are fused for BEUD. I can't negate that either even though it's a special summon? O.oHow can you negate it if they're already Special Summoned? Look at it this way.I Monster Reborn Dark Magician Girl, she hits the field, you try to Black Horn it. How can you if it just had been SS'd successfully? Pretty much, Black Horn can't chain anything and can only start Chains... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yeah, I was just about to mention the problem with the Counter Traps that negate Summons. Their timing is "before" the monster is even on the field. When another effect is involved, the Summon is successful at the resolution of its effect, and since you can't "interrupt" a card's resolution, even with a Counter Trap, Solemn Judgment and Black Horn are ineffective, as they need to activate "before" the monster is on the field, which is impossible once the effect resolves. I have the common problem with my Glads of asking "tag okay?" (picked up for this very reason), getting a "yes" in reply, and SSing a Glad, only for them to try to Warning. You can't use Warning to the Summon, you have to do it to the tag, because that's the effect that's Special Summoning. I usually just lament them not understanding, give a brief explanation, and put the SSed Glad back in my deck, as if Warning had been used to the Tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Right...so I should stick to Bottomless Trap Hole then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Right...so I should stick to Bottomless Trap Hole then?Warning is better, but expensive. BTH is better than Dark Horn though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Warning is better, but expensive. BTH is better than Dark Horn though. I'm trying to get cards that I can find and afford. My friend is finding me BTHs and might trade me a Mist Wurm. Then one day I will buy his Dark Magician Girl. ^^ Also, another noobish question. A Synchro monster calls for 1 tuner and 1 or more non-tuner-beast types. Could Beast-Warriors be used? Or strictly Beasts only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Beast-Warriors are not Beasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Beast-Warriors are not Beasts. I thought so. I just asked because someone told me you could. ...eff! I can't summon Frozen Fitzgerald unless my ONLY copy of Fenrir in my deck is on the field!!! D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I thought so. I just asked because someone told me you could. ...eff! I can't summon Frozen Fitzgerald unless my ONLY copy of Fenrir in my deck is on the field!!! D:Junk Synchron -> Ryko :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piercer of the Heavens Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I thought so. I just asked because someone told me you could. ...eff! I can't summon Frozen Fitzgerald unless my ONLY copy of Fenrir in my deck is on the field!!! D:Junk Synchron--> Nimble Momonga. That's what I do to summon Frozen Fitzgerald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 O_oserious? Serious. Everyone seem to use Burden of the Mighty at DN. My meets with the card were against Rock Stun, Anti-Meta GBs, Gravekeepers, standard Anti-Meta and Toons. In fact, I think I dueled someone using it in Infernities but I don't remember. Random other note: Turns out using Spirit Reaper against Gladiator Beasts isn't good. They just use it as a random thing to activate their effects =/ Had that done to me in the Burden of the Mighty GB duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solemn Silver Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Serious. Everyone seem to use Burden of the Mighty at DN. My meets with the card were against Rock Stun, Anti-Meta GBs, Gravekeepers, standard Anti-Meta and Toons. In fact, I think I dueled someone using it in Infernities but I don't remember. Random other note: Turns out using Spirit Reaper against Gladiator Beasts isn't good. They just use it as a random thing to activate their effects =/ Had that done to me in the Burden of the Mighty GB duel. Who thought it was a gooc counter? >_> They get free tags lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Who thought it was a gooc counter? >_> They get free tags lol I obviously didn't want that to happen .-. It's just the misfortune of using Spirit Reaper and unwillingly getting a GB match-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piercer of the Heavens Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Wow I put testing deck and some guy challenges me with a six sam. How will that let me test my deck, I already know I will lose against them. But I dueled anyways. He summoned Shi En and I had Tiki Curse and Tiki Soul on the field(already activated so they were on the monster card zone). He attacked Tiki Soul, so Tiki Curse effect activated to destroy Shi En. We had an argument that he can't negate Tiki Curse effect with Shi En effect. I then looked up the ruling."The effect of this card to destroy the opponent’s monster is activated as an Effect Monster’s effect." I showed it to him and he quit. What the heck. He would have still won if he kept going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~British Soul~ Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 i was using a BW deck earlier i do some shenanigans and summon Vayu with Shura, during main phase 2 i synch Vayu and Shura into Vortex the Whirlwind, then my opponent said "You can't" and said "Read Vayu's eff" i said "Read Shura's effect" and he quit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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