Amethyst Phoenix Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Seems like a lot of serious business over a small flap of skin to me. There are ways to regrow it, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 [quote name='Vough' timestamp='1313295938' post='5441344'] Wut Religion abortion circumcision cutting off arms parenting how did you get that?[/quote] You obviously do not understand the way my mind works. :3Ok...this is how I'm viewing this argument. Some of you are mad because mommy and daddy didn't want your girlfriend/wife to drop your pants and go, "Ewww...what is that piece of skin? Oh, I'm tired now. No sex. Goodnight!" Now don't tell me it's about principle. If it were, you would be argueing over something far more significant. In my opinion, you're just finding an excuse to b****. Now then...shall we start a tnew thread with a more significant topic? :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vough Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 [quote name='Dwarven King' timestamp='1313303729' post='5441488'] You obviously do not understand the way my mind works. :3 Ok...this is how I'm viewing this argument. Some of you are mad because mommy and daddy didn't want your girlfriend/wife to drop your pants and go, "Ewww...what is that piece of skin? Oh, I'm tired now. No sex. Goodnight!" Now don't tell me it's about principle. If it were, you would be argueing over something far more significant. In my opinion, you're just finding an excuse to b****. Now then...shall we start a tnew thread with a more significant topic? :3 [/quote] I laughed. So hard. @Amethyst I was unaware of this 0.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:^) Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 >Let's get consent from a new born. >MFW let people have their own choices. >Not your fault if someone does it. >Since it's part of the main religion of the world it's legal. >Let's find the bones of Jesus and prove them wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted August 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 [quote name='Cindy ♥s You' timestamp='1313316560' post='5441646'] >Let's get consent from a new born. >MFW let people have their own choices. >Not your fault if someone does it. >Since it's part of the main religion of the world it's legal. >Let's find the bones of Jesus and prove them wrong. [/quote] The f*** are you on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenrir Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 [quote name='Dwarven King' timestamp='1313303729' post='5441488'] You obviously do not understand the way my mind works. :3 Ok...this is how I'm viewing this argument. Some of you are mad because mommy and daddy didn't want your girlfriend/wife to drop your pants and go, "Ewww...what is that piece of skin? Oh, I'm tired now. No sex. Goodnight!" Now don't tell me it's about principle. If it were, you would be argueing over something far more significant. In my opinion, you're just finding an excuse to b****. Now then...shall we start a tnew thread with a more significant topic? :3 [/quote] The mind of a 10 year old folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 [quote name='Dwarven King' timestamp='1313303729' post='5441488'] You obviously do not understand the way my mind works. :3 Ok...this is how I'm viewing this argument. Some of you are mad because mommy and daddy didn't want your girlfriend/wife to drop your pants and go, "Ewww...what is that piece of skin? Oh, I'm tired now. No sex. Goodnight!" Now don't tell me it's about principle. If it were, you would be argueing over something far more significant. In my opinion, you're just finding an excuse to b****. Now then...shall we start a tnew thread with a more significant topic? :3 [/quote] It's better to not say anything and let people think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Damn...was Vough the only one who got the joke? Of course, that's me assuming he ws laughing at the joke and not me. But in all seriousness, this whol argument is a joke. Ok, its about principle. Then why are we choosing to use this as an example? Yeah, they cut off a piece of skin that serves no real purpose and caused you no harm from it. I fail to see the big deal. Why not use something bigger and far more significant? There are plenty of cases out there where we lose our freedom of choice to our parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 As much as some of you disagree, Dwarven King is right. This is essentially an excuse to b****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenrir Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 And I don't quite see what's the problem with letting guys decide if they want to be circumsized or not when they get older. What's the big deal? Their body, they make the choice. Time isn't an issue here, so I don't see why you guys are bitching about our bitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 [quote name='Lockon Fenrir' timestamp='1313375258' post='5443691'] And I don't quite see what's the problem with letting guys decide if they want to be circumsized or not when they get older. What's the big deal? Their body, they make the choice. Time isn't an issue here, so I don't see why you guys are bitching about our bitching. [/quote] Because your bitching is annoying. People these days fail to see the more important things in life. Here is a fine example. Around the month of April this year, I was watching the news (I was a library aid at my High School and the librarian always had the news on). Economy was bad, President was making big decisions, people in third world countries were starving (still are), some ruler in another country was committing genocide, our troops were giving their lives in another country (still are), etc, etc, etc. Basically, there was a lot of crap going on (still is). So what topic did the news channel stay on and debated on for almost an hour? Parents are buying bikini's for their 13 year old daughters. What. The. Bloody. Hell. Then, for the remainder of the time that I was in the library that day (like five minutes), we watch a truck be chased by cops and get stopped with no injuries or crashes after like...a minute. It's reasons like this that I b**** at people for bitching over something stupid and insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenrir Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 [quote name='Dwarven King' timestamp='1313377415' post='5443828'] Because your bitching is annoying. People these days fail to see the more important things in life. Here is a fine example. Around the month of April this year, I was watching the news (I was a library aid at my High School and the librarian always had the news on). Economy was bad, President was making big decisions, people in third world countries were starving (still are), some ruler in another country was committing genocide, our troops were giving their lives in another country (still are), etc, etc, etc. Basically, there was a lot of crap going on (still is). So what topic did the news channel stay on and debated on for almost an hour? Parents are buying bikini's for their 13 year old daughters. What. The. Bloody. Hell. Then, for the remainder of the time that I was in the library that day (like five minutes), we watch a truck be chased by cops and get stopped with no injuries or crashes after like...a minute. It's reasons like this that I b**** at people for bitching over something stupid and insignificant. [/quote] You know what I love about this thread? The f***ing hypocrisy in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 [quote name='Lockon Fenrir' timestamp='1313378912' post='5443916'] You know what I love about this thread? The f***ing hypocrisy in it. [/quote] Let me guess. I'm a hypocrite for bitching at people for bitching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenrir Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 [quote name='Dwarven King' timestamp='1313380639' post='5443993'] Let me guess. I'm a hypocrite for bitching at people for bitching? [/quote] No, you're a hypocrite for being stupid, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 [quote name='Lockon Fenrir' timestamp='1313380809' post='5444005'] No, you're a hypocrite for being stupid, obviously. [/quote] I was prepared to "Touche" your post...but that was me assuming you weren't going to be an ass. It seems I'm assuming the best of people to often and should start assuming the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenrir Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 [quote name='Dwarven King' timestamp='1313382400' post='5444075'] I was prepared to "Touche" your post...but that was me assuming you weren't going to be an ass. It seems I'm assuming the best of people to often and should start assuming the worst. [/quote] I was actually presuming you would catch the sarcasm. Regardless, you can't go into an argument and say that everyone's bitching, only to get called out on the fact that you're bitching just as much if not more. If it wasn't obvious enough, this argument is stupid. There's literally no reason for the pro-circumcision side to even be there. It's a simple matter, our body, we choose what we want done with it. There's no issue with having circumcision done after you can actually make the decision. As someone (i think Umbra) stated earlier, if it's dirty then like any piece of our body we'll clean it. So there is literally no f***ing reason for this topic to even exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarven King Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 [quote name='Lockon Fenrir' timestamp='1313412439' post='5444744'] I was actually presuming you would catch the sarcasm. Regardless, you can't go into an argument and say that everyone's bitching, only to get called out on the fact that you're bitching just as much if not more. If it wasn't obvious enough, this argument is stupid. There's literally no reason for the pro-circumcision side to even be there. It's a simple matter, our body, we choose what we want done with it. There's no issue with having circumcision done after you can actually make the decision. As someone (i think Umbra) stated earlier, if it's dirty then like any piece of our body we'll clean it. So there is literally no f***ing reason for this topic to even exist. [/quote] Touche! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 [i]A post on this page somewhere. Yes you have, I'll find examples if you want me to.[/i] Okay, find examples. Don't tell me you will and then be lazy and not do it. You look retarded now because you said you had the ability to find examples but ended up not, for whatever stupid reason. If you really wanted to prove me wrong, you would have copy/pasta'd exactly what I said and you could have shot me down. Also, I'm sure I didn't say anything near what you "quoted", so have fun finding a quote unless you misinterpret something or just can't understand basic English. [i]So as a parent, you wouldn't do what was absolutely necissary, whether he wanted you to or not? Would your son's life mean more to you than whether you let him do what he wants?[/i] If my son was about to die and to save his life he needed an xyz surgery, I would request that a doctor performs this surgery on him. I love my son and I want him to be alive and well. Now, after the surgery, if he tells me that I made the wrong decision and he wanted to die, so be it. He still has the option of committing suicide through some other means, and I can't force him [b]not[/b] to commit suicide. The problem with circumcision is that if I go up to my parents and say that they made the wrong choice and I never wanted to get it done, too late. Sucks for me, I can't regrow it and I'm stuck being cut for the rest of my life. Also, if circumcision really provided amazing health benefits, it would be recommended or required. It is neither of those things. [i]Essentially, "good parenting" is subjective. Some parents think beating is good parenting. I would think that doing something like that to add an extra level of safety would be good parenting. [/i] I would think that doing something like signing him up for a whorehouse so he has potential job oppotunities in the future would be good parenting. But a bunch of people would lash out me and call me a bad parent and whatnot, and I'm honestly not sure why. Male prostitutes are kind of in large demand, so he'd easily be able to find a job. What, was my decision to sign him up for a whorehouse [i]without asking him[/i] a bad one? [i]I honestly don't care that my foreskin is gone.[/i] Not everyone thinks like you. Some people, and I know this might come as a bit of a shocker, actually care that they were circumcised without their consent. I'm not Jewish, but for whatever reason my parents had me circumcised. Is it going to have any [i]major[/i] impact on my life? No. However, would I have liked a pros-and-cons chart and made my own logical decision on the issue? Absolutely. I don't really know what I would have decided because I don't have that option and I never did, but I may have very well chosen not to get circumcised. My parents did something irreversible to me and I'm not proud of their decision, even though I may have chosen the same one (albeit [b]by myself[/b]). [i]I'm not against that you think that children shouldn't be circumcised without their consent[/i] ...okay, so why have you been arguing with us for like two or three pages? [i]As such, signing in a whorehouse is against a child's rights and is basicly pro child-rape.[/i] I would have signed a contract when the child was newborn saying that when the child turns eighteen, they would be forced into the prostitution business. Child rape? Hardly, but I am forcing a job decision upon them. But because I took the decision before they were eighteen, before they were an adult, it's completely alright, yeah? I took advantage of their lack of worldly understanding and did what I thought was best. And yet people still tell me that I'm a bad parent. [i]Yeah, show me studies it works as much and as well as torture.[/i] Well, let's see. When you're being tortured, you are going to do whatever it takes to stop the torture, even if that means confessing to a crime you haven't done. If I waterboard you for weeks on end and ask you to confess to being the head conspirator behind 9/11, you are going to give in eventually because you fear death. The same concept works with corporal punishment. If my mom hits me when I steal a chocolate bar, I'm still going to be tempted to steal another chocolate bar. So next time I'll just remember the punishment I got - because my mom saw me do it. So I'll sneakily slip it in my pocket, and I get a free chocolate bar without my mom hitting me. Improvement! [i]I know I'm a changed, disciplined man because my parents spanked me with smooth wood when I did something bad, or cleaned my mouth with soap.[/i] Okay, apparently you think that everything thinks like you. I'm glad that I don't. I know I'm a moral, respectful man because my parents [b]never[/b] spanked me with whatever parents spank their children with. What is your point? Just because you actually learned from corporal punishment (which really just means you gave into your fear of being hit) doesn't mean other people will - and in fact, other people don't. If you're going to argue about Corporal Punishment, first of all, go to the thread in Debates. Second of all, get some actual statistics instead of using your bullshit personal stories that amount to nothing in any intellectual debate. [i]My foreskin doesn't, and didn't matter.[/i] First of all, foreskin may make sex and masturbation more pleasurable. Not proven, but the fact that is is a possibility should be more than enough to give the choice of circumcision to the person [b]actually being circumcised[/b]. Second, even if your foreskin doesn't matter, why should your parents be given that choice? It isn't their body, you are not one of their possessions (although if you lack a high amount of self-esteem you might as well consider yourself an inanimate object under the tyranny of your parents' rule), and they have no right to do something to you that is irreversible. If my foreskin grew back, alright, I wouldn't care. If they put me in a private school without asking me, alright, I can definitely just throw a tantrum if I really wanted to go back to public school (not sure why I would). However, I can't do anything if they cut something off of my body that isn't so easily glued back on. [i]Would you care if your mother got rid of a wart?[/i] Warts could be detrimental to your health. Foreskin, if properly cleaned (which really isn't that hard to do), doesn't provide any adverse health effects. [i]I'm going to keep arguing that an arm and foreskin are too different to compare.[/i] Conceptually, they are the exact same thing. Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that an arm amputation didn't have any potential adverse effects, just like you claim that circumcision doesn't have any. Now, why am I not allowed to cut off my child's arm for whatever bullshit religious reason I want to? I'm just looking out for him, it's a lot easier to get into heaven with an arm-cut, and a bunch of other shitty arguments. Just because you think a foreskin has no purpose (potentially untrue) and just because you think a circumsion has no potential health defects (completely untrue) doesn't mean the decision should necessarily be with the parents. Oh, you missed this post. It clearly explains how circumcision isn't very "beneficial" to one's health. [i]"Routine circumcision in Western countries damages sex lives and causes 229 deaths per year in the US alone, and probably thousands in the Third World where medical treatment is more dangerous. Metzitzah - the technique whereby the rabbi sucks the penis to remove the blood and loosen the skin - causes several herpes cases in babies a year, and is in itself a despicable act."[/i] [i]Yes, because adoption doesn't exist, and with the money it costs for an abortion, she couldn't have access to any money or someone who had any. I'm not saying that she would because she has the desire to deny life, but she knows that it would someday grow up to be a person, like her, but she still would have had it removed instead of giving it up for adoption or anything.[/i] No, you have still not made an argument that mothers who get abortions are consciously denying their "child" a right to live. All you have said so far is why mothers shouldn't get abortions, which, first of all, is completely biased because you didn't even to bother to address reasons why mothers would get an abortion, and second of all, is irrelevant because I asked you a specific question which you glaringly failed to answer. [i]I consciously chose it, I wasn't threatened, wasn't afraid.[/i] How are you sure? For all you know, this could have just been your parents' ploy so you turned out to be a good, loving Christian. For all you know, they forced you into this decision and you never consciously made it. Go ask your parents what they would have done if you said you wanted to be a Muslim when you were five years old. If they give you the, "oh, we'd be accepting of whatever religion you choose," either they're high or they're bullshitting. The latter is a lot more likely. [i]The fact you are consciously unaware of feeding me words I find laughable[/i] Can you please point out (for once in your life, use examples) where I've "fed you" words? [i]Children are not logical. I hope you know that.[/i] No, it's clear that you aren't logical. [i]How many 5 year olds know about sex or sexual pleasure?[/i] How many 30-year-olds know without a shadow of a doubt that their kid [i]wants[/i] to be circumcised? [i]I genuinely wanted to see how you would react to that.[/i] If you didn't already know, you aren't very good at this. "This" could be anything from debating to social interactions to just simple logic, or a combination of those. [i]I feel like I just read a science book.[/i] Yeah. [i]Thats Dark for ya... Except hes more of a math guy but whatever... [/i] Yeah. [i]Some of you are mad because mommy and daddy didn't want your girlfriend/wife to drop your pants and go, "Ewww...what is that piece of skin? Oh, I'm tired now. No sex. Goodnight!"[/i] I guess this explains why you thought that you read a science book after reading what was actually a clear, concise, and simple post. [i]It's better to not say anything and let people think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. [/i] I love you. [i]Yeah, they cut off a piece of skin that serves no real purpose and caused you no harm from it.[/i] > no real purpose > no harm from it It really makes you wonder how many of the people arguing actually read even a quarter of the whole thread. [i]As much as some of you disagree, Dwarven King is right. This is essentially an excuse to b****. [/i] So if I start cutting my children's arms off because I'm a religious nut-case, people won't start complaining? Thank god! [i]If it wasn't obvious enough, this argument is stupid. There's literally no reason for the pro-circumcision side to even be there. It's a simple matter, our body, we choose what we want done with it. There's no issue with having circumcision done after you can actually make the decision. As someone (i think Umbra) stated earlier, if it's dirty then like any piece of our body we'll clean it. So there is literally no f***ing reason for this topic to even exist. [/i] I think that Fenrir and TheComposer are the stars of this thread. More than me, they were able to summarize the arguments of the pro-"choice" (quotes used so you morons won't think I'm talking about abortion) in an intelligently-fashioned way, compared to my long-winded posts that just attracted the same circular (and illogical) arguments over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Okay then Dark you say it is the childs choice to get circumcized or not but what about abortion? You never asked the kid if he wanted to live or not... You say children deserve that freedom yet you support something that takes their ultimate freedom away... I have noticed a bit of hypocrisy in your statements... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 [i]Okay then Dark you say it is the childs choice to get circumcized or not but what about abortion? You never asked the kid if he wanted to live or not... You say children deserve that freedom yet you support something that takes their ultimate freedom away... I have noticed a bit of hypocrisy in your statements... [/i] I've already addressed that in a previous statement. People who are pro-choice don't believe that a fetus need have the right to a choice because it is a part of the mother. It is essentially a parasite that is directly attached to the mother, and thus it is the mother's choice of whether or not to give birth to the child. You are assuming that all people believe that a fetus is a cognitive human being, which isn't the case. It's not hypocrisy when I have clearly stated my opinions but you just failed to read them properly (or failed to read them at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Yeah, well, babies can't look at a chart outlining the pros and cons of circumcision and make an informed decision based on that. Circumcision is just part of a culture. Who. Gives. A f***. @Dark: Let's say I believe that people under the age of 10 aren't human beings. Can I kill them? If you have any links to some actual evidence that shows that pre-birth human organisms are significantly less capable of coherent thought, please share them. I'm totally serious, I'd really love to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourmaline Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 [quote name='Anthony Hatsune' timestamp='1313460337' post='5446369'] Okay then Dark you say it is the childs choice to get circumcized or not but what about abortion? You never asked the kid if he wanted to live or not... You say children deserve that freedom yet you support something that takes their ultimate freedom away... I have noticed a bit of hypocrisy in your statements... [/quote] He supports it being the mother's decision until she has given birth to the child, I believe. Even if not, until the child is really born, it really only is a parasite. Albeit, a parasite that is intentional and ultimately good in most cases, though unwanted in some. The difference is that, firstly, unlike circumcision, an abortion is only possible for a small length of time. By the time that child may be capable of rational, cognitive capacity, do you really believe it is still possible to conduct an abortion to them? Absolutely not. Additionally, it is called an abortion because it is the annihilation of the fetus, which is not truly alive at some points and not even conscious a majority of the time. Don't compare apples to oranges, as they (indefinite article) say. Additionally, it is the mother's body. She should be able to do as she wishes with it; not burden herself for the rest of her life if she regrets the pregnancy and can not afford having a child. Your point is null because it has already been countered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Phoenix Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 You can in fact recover your foreskin. People have actually been doing it since ancient Greece and Rome, though the methods have obviously advanced since then. Here's a nice article about its origins with no scary pictures of human anatomy to traumatize you or get me banned: [url="http://www.cirp.org/library/restoration/hall1/%5DHere%27s"]http://www.cirp.org/library/restoration/hall1/[/url] [quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1313461886' post='5446438'] Let's say I believe that people under the age of 10 aren't human beings. Can I kill them? If you have any links to some actual evidence that shows that pre-birth human organisms are significantly less capable of coherent thought, please share them. I'm totally serious, I'd really love to see them. [/quote] How about the studies showing that young children's minds aren't as developed as teenagers who aren't as developed mentally as adults? Unless you're suggesting that babies leave their internal super computers behind in the uterus and that hospitals will really buy the placenta because it contains ancient technology that is used by NASA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smear Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 circumcised. uncircumcised. >makes no difference >who gives a s*** >stop arguing about pointless crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted August 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 [quote name='Smeargle' timestamp='1313503156' post='5447016'] >makes no difference [/quote] [img]http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/thumb/5/5d/Nope.png/250px-Nope.png[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.