Labyrinth Duel Questions

[SSStylin']

I've read the previous thread concerning Labyrinth Duels. I was surprised at how hostile (at least half of) the posters were to just the idea of it. Regardless, I will try nonetheless.

 

 

First off, if you are not familiar with the term/concept "Labyrinth Duel"; yes, I am referring to the duel that occurred during the Duelist Kingdom arc of the 2nd Yu-Gi-Oh! series (between Yugi, Joey & the Paradox Bros.) HOWEVER, this thread (aside from the idea of the Labyrinth Duel) is NOT concerned with the episodes in any manner.

 

-{Please do not mention, refer to, complain about, etc. the events that occurred in those episodes.}-

 

If you are not interested in the concept of Labyrinth Duels, I kindly ask you do NOT post here. This thread's focus is aimed towards people who are interested.

 

 

When reading & answering the following questions, assume the Labyrinth Duel follows all the rules of the regular game, meaning:

--> 5 slot Monster Card Zone (Summoned on the field [a.k.a. grid])

--> 5 slot Spell/Trap Card Zone (separate from the field)

--> 1 Field Spell Card Zone, Graveyard, Banished Zone, etc.

--> normal Draw, Standby, Main 1, Battle, Main 2, End Phases

--> use the same cards as regular Duels

 

 

Now then, I am interested in hearing/reading the honest opinions of genuinely interested readers to these questions:

 

1) How long would you like your labyrinth duels to last?

- [Do not think of details concerning rules. Just think about your personal opinion of how lengthy (or brief) you'd like your labyrinth duels.]

 

2) How often per turn should (each player) be able to activate effects that "destroy/banish/return to" Monsters on the field?

- [Assume it will take at least 3 turns to move 1 monster across the entire board.]

 

3) How often should effects that "destroy/banish/return to" multiple or all cards from the field be allowed to activate?

- [specifically Monsters]

 

4) How do you feel about no Spells & Traps; only Monsters (including Effect Monsters)?

- [Monsters that require Spells/Traps to be Summoned (such as Ritual Monsters), the controller would still pay the cost/Tribute/etc to Summon the monster as written on the card, only without that card. It would still be considered a Special Summon, but with no Spell/Trap activation.]

 

5) Should monsters have individual Life Points?

- [i.e. - 1000 LP per Level]

 

 

Feel free to post about cards you think will be an issue in this format.

 

To those who leave constructive & relevant answers, I thank you with great appreciation in advance.

~ SSStylin'

 

 

**Note: There will likely be additional questions added in the future, so please stay tuned.

[SSStylin']

bump

 

Sure is a tough crowd. No love for the classic stuff, huh?

[evilfusion]

I've read the previous thread concerning Labyrinth Duels. I was surprised at how hostile (at least half of) the posters were to just the idea of it. Regardless, I will try nonetheless.

 

If you are not interested in the concept of Labyrinth Duels, I kindly ask you do NOT post here.

 

Now then, I am interested in hearing/reading the honest opinions of genuinely interested readers...:

 

This seems to be the problem.

 

It makes a card game even more unnecessarily complicated and is based on a mechanic from the anime when the rules made no sense and/or had no semblence to the RL game.

 

That is my opinion. Can you do it? Sure, go nuts. But just trying to figure out the rules in relation to ALREADY confusing and complicated rules would be an utmost nightmare.

[Sleepy]

Not hating or anything, but I must agree that it needs to become a little to complex to work.

 

One of the things I have to point out is, the labyrinth itself.

The field is the first problem since in the regular game, everyone has the same fixed zones and the such, only ever changing when cards themselves provide their effects. In the labyrinth version, you have to either come up with the maze structure at random everygame, or have a fixed field maze for every game.

The random structure is too inconvenient so, its obviously not going to be like that.

The idea of a fixed maze is, boring. If you already know the ins and outs of what is supposed to encourage making strategies in the heat of the moment, then it gets no thrill after a sertain amount of time IMO. Although that's about the most reasonable option.

There is also the idea of the game company creating more mazes every now and then. In the anime, Mokuba's Capsule Monsters (season 0) mentioned to have about 30 different fields. That sounds about right.

 

I first thought about the idea of placing traps and bonuses at some maze Zones, but after a while they loose their worth to the point where all players already know where everything is placed. That idea of mine needs some tuning....

 

Getting back to the inconvenience of the field.

Synchros, Xyz, Fusions.

When you use (let's say) 1 material from your hand, 1 from your start zone, and 1 almost on your opponent's start zones, where exactly does the monster from the Extra Deck fall?

If you try to make some sort of formula involving the number of squares in relation to the material or Extra Deck monster's stats (Level, Rank, ATK, etc), I don't think it to be a good idea.

If you say the Materials must all be together for it, I guess that's more reasonable and balanced, but needs some more refining.

I think (if my memory doesn't fail me) that Jonouchi and Atem (Joey and Yugi) fused their B. Skull Dragon from different spots.

 

 

Yeah, it would be complex.......

Actually, there isn't really much difference between:

Dungeon Dice Monsters

Capsule Monsters

Labyrinth Duels

O_o

[SSStylin']

...it needs to become a little to complex to work.

Sure, it will be complicated, but to say "too complex" is, in my opinion, well... opinionated. One could easily say the card game itself is too complicated by itself. In that regard, I can say it is quite complicated, but not beyond comprehension.

 

 

The random structure is too inconvenient so, its obviously not going to be like that.

Absolutely agree. I have already pondered the idea of a "mutually constructed labyrinth". While wonderful and fair in theory, in practice, there would simply be too much abuse.

 

 

The idea of a fixed maze is, boring. If you already know the ins and outs of what is supposed to encourage making strategies in the heat of the moment, then it gets no thrill after a sertain amount of time IMO. Although that's about the most reasonable option.

There is also the idea of the game company creating more mazes every now and then. In the anime, Mokuba's Capsule Monsters (season 0) mentioned to have about 30 different fields. That sounds about right.

While boring, it is the best solution & the one I have opted for. I agree with your statement concerning "know[ing] the ins and outs".

 

Ideally, there will be multiple labyrinth set ups to choose from. However, currently I am only working with one set up until a balanced system is created.

 

 

I first thought about the idea of placing traps and bonuses at some maze Zones, but after a while they loose their worth to the point where all players already know where everything is placed. That idea of mine needs some tuning....

It is an interesting feature to put thought into, but again, I feel delving into this idea is too quick of a leap before ironing out the basics. I do plan on implementing it if feasible due to the interest expressed in it by others I have asked.

 

 

Synchros, Xyz, Fusions.

When you use (let's say) 1 material from your hand, 1 from your start zone, and 1 almost on your opponent's start zones, where exactly does the monster from the Extra Deck fall?

I've already figured that out. It was one of the immediate issues that I dealt with in the early tests.

 

If you try to make some sort of formula involving the number of squares in relation to the material or Extra Deck monster's stats (Level, Rank, ATK, etc), I don't think it to be a good idea.

If you say the Materials must all be together for it, I guess that's more reasonable and balanced, but needs some more refining.

It's too complicated for a single action. I agree it would be far from ideal.

 

You do make an interesting point with your theory of having Materials all together. I will test that out to see how balanced it is. Of course, if you don't mind.

 

I think (if my memory doesn't fail me) that Jonouchi and Atem (Joey and Yugi) fused their B. Skull Dragon from different spots.

I hate to sound strict or mean, but as said before, anything that happened in the anime/manga is completely irrelevant to this thread (aside from the concept of labyrinth duels).

 

 

Yeah, it would be complex.......

Actually, there isn't really much difference between:

Dungeon Dice Monsters

Capsule Monsters

Labyrinth Duels

O_o

Granted, they have their similarities, but I feel they're different enough to be their own games.

Though, I really don't think Konami executed any of them properly enough for lasting success. Labyrinth Duels never even came to be anything more than a super-simplified print-out version of the manga's representation.

 

 

That said, the purpose of these questions is to garner opinions to improve the game I am working on for a broader audience.

 

sleepy, I sincerely thank you for your thorough & constructive response. I hope to continue discussion on this topic with you (and other like-minded people) soon.

 

 

@evilfusion

Thank you for pointing out the obvious, but you can't blame me for trying. Besides, the other half of that thread was actually attempting to construct something coherent. I'm sure there are others who are interested, who simply haven't come upon the thread yet.

[Sleepy]

I would normally gather up a lot more to say before commenting again, but this is a quick idea before I forget it.

Only in case the Materials for Extra Deck monsters end up not required to be together (in adjasent spaces):

In case one or more materials are scattered accross the board: The Fusion/Synchro/Xyz may simply choose to be placed in a spot where one of those previously in-field Materials stood.

In case of Fusion Summoning with no Materials on the field, that would either be start at, well, your start point, or I don't know what other option.

 

In case it ends up with Materials having to be together, another question raises. Should they be allowed to fuse if together, but separated by a wall? It's worth the experiment with both ways since traspasing the walls might not actually break the game and might even make a player not notice when the other is about to disappear from the Trap hallway, or when you think you are about to get that smaller monster... on second thought, I think it brings more strategy (all IMO of course)

 

 

The movement and distance seems like the other immediate issue here.

 

The maze must be big enough for the pieces to keep moving around, but small enough to fit in a table or at least in a decent amount of places. Suddenly doesn't sound too portable.

It would probably fit like a good idea in a digital way. You know, like Dueling Network style. Where you can have small squares and just point your mouse to the card you currently want to check in a more zoomed way.

Anyways, I'm getting offtopic from the points I wanted to state, I better get back to that..

My guess is that you are basing the movement of your cards either by a fixed amount equal to all pieces, or by how their Levels are. Level = movement was the original idea if I recall, but it would result in some pieces just moving a bit too much. Then there's this problem of Level =/= Rank from nowadays.

While we are thinking of that, is there a specific distance in which a monster can attack another or do they also have to be right in front of their target?

 

Move, Attack, Change Positions < Which of these can be made in the same turn for each monster without conflicting one another? Regularly you can't attack AND change positions in the same turn (for good reasons), and the issue of moving is non-existent.

 

There is a way more complex issue afterwards: Creating a special banlist. I know cards like Dark Hole and Lighting Vortex seem more useful in this type of game where monsters aren't as easily reachable. Creating a list might be among the most difficult things to do here. BTW, direct attackers are going to be meta.

 

Last issue I can think of at the moment: The exit/goal.

You know how the goal of a maze is to get out of it? what do you gain exactly from getting your monsters to the other side?

Attacking directly as a possibility is... I don't know what my opinion is on this part.

 

^Just my two cents providing stuff to think about to see if I hit on something you hadn't planned yet.

 

EDIT: Damn it DID end up being another long post.