Lest We Forget

[Welche the crab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prPsDBulNJQ

Lest We Forget

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I respect our veterans for doing something I would never be able to do.

That being said can't help but to point out the irony of asking for silence, and then singing.

[Mors Secundis]

veterans, who have lost their lives for us, We salute you as a whole figure of patriotism.

[Admiral Tim]

Where is Terry Kelly from?

[Christian Exodia]

Patriots... those millions; all named, some known like heroes; others, unknown but still hold the same title.

From the American Revolution; to the Wars of the World. Those men pick up the gun, don the uniform, and run into battle. While we sit here and type, they fire and get fired upon. They lay dead, or keep going. It's the way. We don't leave a man behind.

I salute you, Marines. Air Force. Army. Coast Guard. Special Forces. Navy. Any I forget, I dearly apologize. You let the country live. Thank you.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

[quote]

[size=4]How can people say -- and seem to really believe -- that war is not romanticized, sentimentalized, glorified? Remembrance Day has now become Remembrance Week. Some people start wearing poppies before the end of October. The airwaves are choked with story after story about the wars. I have no objection -- of course -- to stories and memories but the stories are told, so often, with such affectionate nostalgia.
Those of us who speak against wars are shushed, especially on November 11, or we're told that it is these wars (even the one in Afghanistan!) that have guaranteed our freedom to speak openly.
As many others are, I am moved by the faces of the elderly veterans on November 11 and that's a little sentimental. I really dislike the false equivalency that tosses all the wars in the same basket and I am not at all impressed by antics such as the [url="http://www.thestar.com/news/article/886633--campbellford-legion-re-opens"]recent one[/url] at an Ontario Legion, which puts a bit of tarnish on the veterans' organization.
Let's just say that, to me, the observance of Remembrance Day has been appropriated and turned into a tool of propaganda and I have come to resent its tone and what it has come to represent.[/quote][/size]

[quote]

[indent=1]Unfortunately Remembrance Day is devoted to the perpetuation of a lie. The government, the mass media and our history books all embrace the myth by referring to the needless slaughter and maiming of millions of our young men over the centuries as “sacrifice” and “”dying for our freedoms.” Does anyone who reads real history - not the ethnocentric patriotic feel good hooey we were taught in our high school history courses - and cares about evidence and fact, believe this anymore? Sadly many do. The credulity of many is stretched to the point whereby they even believe the empty platitudes and rhetoric about the most recent atrocities, the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do I need to mention the Vietnam War?[/indent]

[indent=1]We are urged to wear poppies to honor the sacrifices that Canadian soldiers made in WWI, WWII and the Korean War to protect our lives and freedoms. The uncontested premise is that their sacrifices were made to protect our freedoms. But an objective view of history, untainted by nationalistic rhetoric and slogans, casts a huge shadow of doubt on that premise.[/indent]

[indent=1]The truth is that the numerous wars fought outside our country had nothing to do with sacrificing lives for our freedoms and everything to do with power and greed. The genuine “sacrifices” and “dying for our freedoms” happened right here at home over the past two centuries. Anyone who knows anything about the history of the labor movement, the fight for women’s liberation and the rights of indigenous people and the civil rights movement know this.[/indent]
[indent=1]Ask a Japanese Canadian who spent time in a World War II internment camp and whose family was stripped of its property whether his or her "freedom" was safeguarded by the efforts of Canada's soldiers. Ask one of Canada's indigenous people, many of whom enlisted and died in World War II, but still were not allowed to vote in elections as a result of his or her "Indian status" whether he or she felt free at the conclusion of the war. Then ask any of the hundreds of leftists, labor leaders and communists who had their offices and libraries broken into, who were harassed, beaten by the RCMP, charged with bogus “crimes” and thrown in prison for as long as two years – all justified by the lame excuse of “security” and the War Measures Act – much to the delight of conservative elites and corporate leaders. Anyone who wants to know about this sordid Canadian history can consult [i]Dangerous Patriots: Canada's Unknown Prisoners of War by[/i] William and Kathleen Repka. Fascism of course, unlike the Communist Party, was not declared illegal in Canada at any time before, during or after the War. Our freedoms were won right here on our own soil with people striking for civilized wages and working conditions, protesting and marching in the streets often at the risk of being beaten up and yes, killed by corporate thugs and the RCMP.[/indent]
[/quote]


[quote]
[i]All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.[/i]
[indent=1][i]During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.[/i][/indent]
[indent=1][i]Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception.[/i][/indent]
[indent=1][i]War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. [/i][/indent]
[/quote]

These quotes represent my general thoughts on the matter.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

One of those days where I am proud to be a Roman... Thank you veterans for keeping our country safe... Dead or alive you guys made a difference in preserving American Freedom and I thank you from the bottom to the top of my heart... Now words can describe my gratitude to you brave men and women...

[Mehmani]

British soldiers only ever fought for our freedom once, and that was in WWII, which was arguably the only necessary war Britain has ever fought in. I pity the dead and the families of the dead, but whenever I hear again of some fool nattering on about freedom in the context of Afghanistan, I come to loathe what Remembrance Day has become. It has become an exercise in military propaganda. Remembrance Day should not be a day where we pay tribute to those who have died in war. It should be a day where we look upon the wars of the past and turn away with disgust.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Dт. Михаи́л Ботви́нник PчD' timestamp='1321099370' post='5634506']
British soldiers only ever fought for our freedom once, and that was in WWII, which was arguably the only necessary war Britain has ever fought in. I pity the dead and the families of the dead, but whenever I hear again of some fool nattering on about freedom in the context of Afghanistan, I come to loathe what Remembrance Day has become. It has become an exercise in military propaganda. Remembrance Day should not be a day where we pay tribute to those who have died in war. It should be a day where we look upon the wars of the past and turn away with disgust.
[/quote]


War is very profitable. However, I'm glad to hear that some British people rant about Afghanistan for no reason too, I thought we were the only ones. But I disagree on that last part. We should remember those who died as a way to not want it to happen again. Soldiers are tools, they are not responsible for the wars.


One last note, in America, we have Veteran's Day, which was yesterday, to honor Veterans, and Memorial Day which is specifically meant to honor those who have died. I'm not sure how it works in the UK.

[DARKPLANT RISING]

In all honesty I respect my veterans.

Yes, I'm Japaense.

No, seriously, the world's WRONG. Japan wasn't really as bad as people say in WWII.

[Tourmaline]

[quote name='Darkplant - FEAR' timestamp='1321107459' post='5634620']
No, seriously, the world's WRONG. Japan wasn't really as bad as people say in WWII.
[/quote]

Other countries are taught statements on other ones based on propaganda and solipsism. Propaganda is very prominent throughout war as a means of false hope for the people and to retain certain pride. Solipsism is so natural in humanity that whole countries being taught pure slander of other countries couldn't find otherwise unless they gained primary and not tertiary information.

I'd rather believe you than the cookie-cutter system my school has for everybody and their patriotism.

[DARKPLANT RISING]

Actually, Japan's education is quite anti-patriotism, and that's something I'm deeply concerned about.

Education in USA makes kids love the country.

But education in Japan makes kids HATE their country. I blame the GHQ for brainwashing Japan after they took over.

Before the GHQ, Japanese people loved Japan. But they came and kept on saying that the government was bad, the military was bad, blah, blah, blah, and in the end Japan lost all of its patriotism. It also lost a lot of things very important for a country.

Seriously, if it weren't for them, Japan's place in the WWII would be viewed a bit higher...

[Tentacruel]

I wouldn't call WWII-era Japan horrible per se. They just had a very stubborn military/government. Plus, the nukes make every negative sentiment completely void and unjustified.


Also we had concentration camps for Japanese people in the US at the time that [i]some [/i]people forget about.


Or just completely justify...


>:[

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote name='Tentacruel' timestamp='1321109113' post='5634651']
Also we had concentration camps for Japanese people in the US at the time that [i]some [/i]people forget about.
[/quote]
Implying the japanese didn't?
Many American soldiers were captured in WWII and sent into camps to work for the japanese as prisoners where many died... There was one instance where the men were sent on a long journey to a prisoner camp which resulted in about as many deaths as the Trail of Tears...

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Izaya Orihara' timestamp='1321121056' post='5635069']
Implying the japanese didn't?
Many American soldiers were captured in WWII and sent into camps to work for the japanese as prisoners where many died... There was one instance where the men were sent on a long journey to a prisoner camp which resulted in about as many deaths as the Trail of Tears...
[/quote]
I'm referring to American citizens of Japanese decent, not soldiers. And I never implied the Japanese didn't, I'm just saying America does stuff too. We're not Jesus in the form of a nation.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

[quote name='Darkplant - FEAR' timestamp='1321107459' post='5634620']
In all honesty I respect my veterans.

Yes, I'm Japaense.

No, seriously, the world's WRONG. Japan wasn't really as bad as people say in WWII.
[/quote]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre"]Nanking.[/url] Your argument is invalid.

[quote name='Tentacruel']
I wouldn't call WWII-era Japan horrible per se.[/quote]

You're either violently misinformed or a sick f***, one of the two.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='~ P O L A R I S ~' timestamp='1321121976' post='5635137']
You're either violently misinformed or a sick f***, one of the two.
[/quote]

The second, but I was referring to Japan as a group of people, not their f***ed up military.

[Admiral Tim]

Here's a quiz. Anyone know where Terry Kelly is from?

[Christian Exodia]

[quote name='Admiral Tim' timestamp='1321132200' post='5635470']
Here's a quiz. Anyone know where Terry Kelly is from?
[/quote]
Damn it, man. You are ruining a great conversation.

And Tentacruel, I remember vaguely about hearing those. They weren't as bad as the infamous Nazi camps, the later to come POW of 'Nam, or Japan's. But they were harsh, without anyone whipping or beating them.

America has never regained the isolationism back. We are quick to judge the enemy decendants who have come to America on their own free will, EARNED their freedom. We were given it with birth; we are judging every Latino we see nowadays as someone who came illegally. Every Middle Eastern man as a terrorist. Every German as a Nazi even(The Neo-Nazi craze thing.). Look. I love America as a whole. But this, it's stupid, and it's wrong.

[DARKPLANT RISING]

[quote name='~ P O L A R I S ~' timestamp='1321121976' post='5635137']


[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre"]Nanking.[/url] Your argument is invalid.[/quote]

Specialists argue that the Nanking Massacre was in fact fake, created by other countries to justify their actions against Japan. They knew the nuke was too much, but couldn't admit it; in order to save themselves they "created" a fake attack.

Reasons.

1. Of the 40+ pictures of the massacre stored in its museum, only several are real, and the majority is fraud. In some cases, it's obvious; there's a photo of a girl crying in front of a tank, but closing up reveals her father taking money from the cameraman. In another, of a soldier attacking a young boy, the soldier's even wearing Chinese military equipment. A lot of them also feature Japanese soldiers holding weapons that Japan didn't even know or use at that time.

2. When the people who first started this were asked how many people were killed, they first said 20 thousand. Later, after more questions, it diminished to 5 thousand; a thousand; several hundred; finally, below hundred.

3. If such thing actually happened, then the Chinese leader of the time should have argued - STRONGLY - about it straight after the war ended. But no, the Chinese government started focusing on the massacre AFTER other countries.

tl;dr The massacre was fake. Q.E.D.

Objections people?

[Great Unclean One: VK]

[quote name='Darkplant - FEAR' timestamp='1321138273' post='5635771']
Specialists argue that the Nanking Massacre was in fact fake, created by other countries to justify their actions against Japan. They knew the nuke was too much, but couldn't admit it; in order to save themselves they "created" a fake attack.

Reasons.

1. Of the 40+ pictures of the massacre stored in its museum, only several are real, and the majority is fraud. In some cases, it's obvious; there's a photo of a girl crying in front of a tank, but closing up reveals her father taking money from the cameraman. In another, of a soldier attacking a young boy, the soldier's even wearing Chinese military equipment. A lot of them also feature Japanese soldiers holding weapons that Japan didn't even know or use at that time.

2. When the people who first started this were asked how many people were killed, they first said 20 thousand. Later, after more questions, it diminished to 5 thousand; a thousand; several hundred; finally, below hundred.

3. If such thing actually happened, then the Chinese leader of the time should have argued - STRONGLY - about it straight after the war ended. But no, the Chinese government started focusing on the massacre AFTER other countries.

tl;dr The massacre was fake. Q.E.D.

Objections people?
[/quote]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAp8bSdE5MQ[/media]

[DARKPLANT RISING]

Ah, Unit 731.

I'm not an expert on THAT (hell, I doubt any kid like me'll know much about it), but I still know something.

It's that "Devil's Satiation", the very novel that gave Unit 731 most of its current name, was full of fraud.

1. Most of the photographs in it were in fact from a Black Death plague that took place WAY before WWII.
2. All of the witnesses in it are anonymous, and it's impossible to track down the truth.
3. The Khabarovsk Trial, in which most of the current known "witnesses" of those involved, has been already negated by jurists.
4. No physical matter evidence has been found.
5. It says that men were turned to mummies by sucking out all water via an injector. But it is even now impossible to actually do that.
6. It says that they threw men into a vacuum and took a video of the intestines spilling out of all the body holes, but it is now known that this is impossible as well.

I can't say more.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Upon further investigation, mainly just from reading [url="http://www2.biglobe.ne.jp/~remnant/nankingm.htm"]http://www2.biglobe....nt/nankingm.htm[/url], I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the Nanking massacre actually was a fabrication or at the very least a vast exaggeration. The amount of evidence proven false in of itself is staggering. My apologies for not having considered the possibility beforehand.